2019 Three Rivers Athletic Conference (TRAC)

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
Maumee should apply to the SBC. They are short some members right now I believe.
It SEEMS like it would make sense but it doesn't.

As I mentioned before it is nice to have a stable league with short travel. On top of that I don't buy that Maumee cannot compete in the NLL anymore. Yes they are smaller when compared to Perrysburg and AW but they still have kids. Against Clay, I did not see a big difference in talent or numbers.

The mega league will happen but needs some nudging. It took about 10 years for the TRAC concept to grab hold.

TCL/TRAC/NLL could make a dynamite league with 3 divisions where teams could jump up and down based on numbers and returning talent every year or two.
 

ToledoGuy

New member
It SEEMS like it would make sense but it doesn't.

As I mentioned before it is nice to have a stable league with short travel. On top of that I don't buy that Maumee cannot compete in the NLL anymore. Yes they are smaller when compared to Perrysburg and AW but they still have kids. Against Clay, I did not see a big difference in talent or numbers.

The mega league will happen but needs some nudging. It took about 10 years for the TRAC concept to grab hold.

TCL/TRAC/NLL could make a dynamite league with 3 divisions where teams could jump up and down based on numbers and returning talent every year or two.
While I think it's hard not to say there isn't a gulf in class between two teams when one wins by 6 TDs, I agree with your last bit.

It has worked incredibly well in Columbus with the OCC (which is my model of choice) and to a lesser extent in Dayton with the GWOC. It is something that could build on the distinct advantage of having so many competitive teams close by, while also allowing for teams to essentially "earn" their place on respective divisions. Hell, you could even run a GCL type system where the top 4 or 5 teams by size or ability (likely Whitmer, SJJ, Central, Perrysburg, and a 5th TBD team) are in their own division while the remaining teams operate in a basic promotion relegation structure and each plays a few intra-divisional games each season. The hockey teams at all area schools already do it with the 3 division NHC, so the model is there.
 

cchs1983

Active member
Nice win by Detroit Catholic Central over Detroit King today. King, as always littered with high end D1 college talent, including their freshman QB with a UM offer. Looks like Whitmer and Central Catholic will have their hands full the next 2 weeks.
 

NLLBEST

Member
Remember maumee has a new coaching staff running a new offense and defense. I agree the talent at maumee isn’t far off from competing consistently in the NLL and no way they join the SBC, NBC shouldn’t accept them if they wanted to join. I’m ok with a merging of conferences but itll be a while. After week one it looks like SFS, SJJ, Whitmer, Central and Findlay should have some very good games this year and Clay might steal one or two from that top 5. Lima and Fremont might be in for long seasons though.
 

ToledoGuy

New member
Burned bridges and a personally frayed relationship between Clay's AD and Assistnat Super at the time and Perrysburg's School Board president and the NLL Commissioner that has persisted on both ends due to more than a few broken promises throughout the years (namely Clay not joining the NLL when the GLL fell apart despite promising the League Commissioner they would, as that was around the time Rossford first told the league they were planning to leave.

Those two entities (Perrysburg and NLL leadership) lobbied the entire rest of the league to vote against Clay's membership application when Rossford left and it was struck down 7-0. I'll just say I'll be very surprised to see Clay in the NLL ever...I'm fairly confident that if a team were to leave, Findlay would get the invite before Clay.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Those two entities (Perrysburg and NLL leadership) lobbied the entire rest of the league to vote against Clay's membership application when Rossford left and it was struck down 7-0. I'll just say I'll be very surprised to see Clay in the NLL ever...I'm fairly confident that if a team were to leave, Findlay would get the invite before Clay.
An indication that local sports really is a bunch of old guys living out high school rivalries and egos.

The thing you described is a "move-on" thing. The only goal needed here is a competitive atmosphere for your athletes, so they can test their mettle instead of getting steam rolled. Flexible alignments makes sense for those up-down years. As long as distances don't get out of hand, attendance and revenues would probably jump.

Also be interesting to try and see how it would affect Harbins. Being such an isolated part of the state, it's not clear to me if it would benefit, hurt or stalemate. Be an interesting simulation using past years.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
At some point (and we are close already) the rest of the NLL will come to understand that Perrysburg and AW have grown so much larger that the advantage will be a tipping point. At the moment however, Perrysburg has not taken advantage of their superior numbers. Yes, they are good, but while their school enrollment has jumped by roughly 200 boys (10-12) over the last 10 years their football participation has not grown at the same rate (still roughly 60 kids out 10-12 - should be in the 80-100 range).

Maumee and Napoleon, much like Lima Sr. and Fremont Ross and Findlay to a degree, are in tough predicaments due to their size and area. Maumee and Napoleon are the smallest NLL schools in terms of enrollment at 285 and 248 respectively but they are still too large for any other local conference. Local NBC teams of Otsego (187), Eastwood (189), Genoa (185), Lake (185), & Rossford (218) have roughly 100 less boys than Maumee. The majority of the NWOAL teams are in the 150 range. Again, Napoleon has roughly 100 more boys than most NWOAL schools.

As chs1971 points out, Ross is still bigger than any other SBC school. It would seem like a natural fit but Ross has 454 boys compared to Columbian (333), Clyde (256), Sandusky (338), Bellevue (252), Norwalk (318), Perkins (252). Again, over 100 boys more than the next largest school.

Findlay is on an island as is Lima Sr.

So, it will take some REAL vision and push and I'm not certain you will get it from anywhere. Creating a new league is a chore. Each school has different needs, you need to come up with a charter and adopt rules and governing by-laws, so the question begs, who drives this and immerses themselves into this in order to get it done? The NLL league administrators? TCL? TRAC? It should happen sooner but will not happen until there is full fledged NEED.

I would include the TCL but no one from the NLL wants to travel to Woodward for a game. I do not agree with it but it is the truth. There are many other unforeseen dynamics which is why, even being on the small end, is a no brainer breeze for schools like Napoleon and Maumee to stick with the NLL. From an AD and resources standpoint, a very secure league is bliss.

Here is a list of enrollment figures for the TRAC/TCL/NLL from most to least.

Whitmer - 839
Start - 691
Perrysburg - 672
Findlay - 600 (was above 700 at one time)
Bowsher - 588
Anthony Wayne - 544
Northview - 511
Waite - 479
Fremont Ross - 454
Springfield - 452
Clay - 442
St. Francis - 429 (was above 500 at one time)
Lima Sr. - 429
St. Johns - 383 (was around 600 at one time)
Southview - 368
Bowling Green - 361
Rogers - 345
Woodward - 316
Maumee - 285
Scott - 258
Napoleon - 248
Central Catholic - 219 (was above 400 at one time)
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
I would include the TCL but no one from the NLL wants to travel to Woodward for a game. I do not agree with it but
Ahem

no one got shot at Wootward this weekend.

Honest question: is that presumption or overheard? We talking teams or fans? They do not seem to have a problem coming to the Eastside. Any concern about the northside is just an educational moment waiting for an adult. If anything, the concern should be going to PBurg or Whitehouse. There are so many chaw-chewin-cwiggers (we listen to country-western but have never seen a cow) in those communities it'll strip the brown off a Ho-Ho.
 

ToledoGuy

New member
Ahem

no one got shot at Wootward this weekend.

Honest question: is that presumption or overheard? We talking teams or fans? They do not seem to have a problem coming to the Eastside. Any concern about the northside is just an educational moment waiting for an adult. If anything, the concern should be going to PBurg or Whitehouse. There are so many chaw-chewin-cwiggers (we listen to country-western but have never seen a cow) in those communities it'll strip the brown off a Ho-Ho.
If one were to approach it properly, TCL would be included, but I'm of the impression that most NLL schools would veto that under the guise of "safety concerns" which we all know what that actually means. Strictly a presumption on my part, but I do know that was part of the rationale behind the TRAC four splitting from the City League to create the TRAC. It's the same thing that happened with the OCC. Originally all schools in Franklin County were to be included, but the pearl-clutchers in the northern and western suburbs got up in arms and the Columbus City Schools were dropped.

If it is to have the best likelihood of coming to pass, the "mega conference" would like include the following teams:

SJJ/SUA, SFS/NDA, Central, Whitmer, Findlay, Clay, and Ross from the TRAC
Every NLL team
Otsego, Lake, Genoa, Rossford, and Eastwood from the NBC
Evergreen, Swanton, and Delta (and maybe LC) from the NWOAL
Columbian and Oak Harbor from the NBC
Ottawa Hills, Northwood, and Stritch from the TAAC

That would give a nice balance of big, mid-sized, and small schools, would likely balance competition levels, and would allow for ease of transition from some schools between divisions with performance (Promotion/Relegation) or enrollment.

As far as Harbin points...I know the incentive for Whitmer to schedule Start every year despite it likely being a 40 point win every time they play is because having a D1 opponent on your schedule who can even go .500 is better than scheduling a D3 opponent at this point. The incentive for some schools should be to bring in as much revenue as possible while putting themselves in the best position to succeed, and I think a conference setup like this would do that in droves.

For most of these teams, it likely wouldn't change much of anything with regard to travel times or scheduled opponents. It would just make for a better overall structure in the area.
 

chs1971

Well-known member
Burned bridges and a personally frayed relationship between Clay's AD and Assistnat Super at the time and Perrysburg's School Board president and the NLL Commissioner that has persisted on both ends due to more than a few broken promises throughout the years (namely Clay not joining the NLL when the GLL fell apart despite promising the League Commissioner they would, as that was around the time Rossford first told the league they were planning to leave.

Those two entities (Perrysburg and NLL leadership) lobbied the entire rest of the league to vote against Clay's membership application when Rossford left and it was struck down 7-0. I'll just say I'll be very surprised to see Clay in the NLL ever...I'm fairly confident that if a team were to leave, Findlay would get the invite before Clay.
And you would be wrong.

I know that when Rossford left most league members thought Clay would be it, but then they visited both schools, and Napoleon sold them. The meeting with Clay was perfunctory. Napoleon brought in representatives fo the school, Board members, community leaders, etc., and sold the town and what they had to offer as the best choice. And that swung the vote.
 
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ToledoGuy

New member
And you would be wrong.

I know that when Rossford left most league members thought Clay would be it, but then they visited both schools, and Napoleon sold them. The meeting with Clay was perfunctory. Napoleon brought in representatives fo the school, Board members, community leaders, etc., and sold the town and what they had to offer as the best choice. And that swung the vote.
I know for an absolute fact that Perrysburg admin spearheaded a campaign among other ADs to not allow Clay entry into the NLL. What you have heard very well may be the story to external partners, but that isnt the whole story.

Regardless, the situation is what it is currently, and I personally believe that Findlay would be the team jumping ship were Maumee to leave the NLL due to numerous conversations with connected individuals. Could Clay jump them? Sure...it helps that nearly all of the "wronged" parties are out at all levels, but I think the power brokers in the NLL know that Findlay would be the far better choice for the conference.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
If one were to approach it properly, TCL would be included, but I'm of the impression that most NLL schools would veto that under the guise of "safety concerns" which we all know what that actually means.
All my joking aside, not an easy task, I honestly think you are incorrect there. If they were to veto, it would be perceptions of safety or it would be revenue but it would not be race, culture or anything along those lines. I've seen the NLL drive here in droves. The only issue inhibiting people to Scott or Wootward is the landlocked nature of the schools. Scott fights Woodward (sigh, missing Libbey) or Bowsher fights Waite but they've got nothing against NLL schools. Heck, Waite doesn't even fight Clay and they were packed into stands on the same side of the field last year.


Like anyone coming to someplace, the where will we park, will it be dark is a bigger issue. TCL teams might have to consider designating the lots for visitors and ask hometeam to park on the streets but other than that, I think the NLL fans enjoy the trip in. I think they enjoy the different atmosphere. I think they enjoy that the TCL teams are generally good sports. Maybe even better sports, if not better teams. And most assuredly, the older folks enjoy coming back to where many of them started.
 

ToledoGuy

New member
All my joking aside, not an easy task, I honestly think you are incorrect there. If they were to veto, it would be perceptions of safety or it would be revenue but it would not be race, culture or anything along those lines. I've seen the NLL drive here in droves. The only issue inhibiting people to Scott or Wootward is the landlocked nature of the schools. Scott fights Woodward (sigh, missing Libbey) or Bowsher fights Waite but they've got nothing against NLL schools. Heck, Waite doesn't even fight Clay and they were packed into stands on the same side of the field last year.


Like anyone coming to someplace, the where will we park, will it be dark is a bigger issue. TCL teams might have to consider designating the lots for visitors and ask hometeam to park on the streets but other than that, I think the NLL fans enjoy the trip in. I think they enjoy the different atmosphere. I think they enjoy that the TCL teams are generally good sports. Maybe even better sports, if not better teams. And most assuredly, the older folks enjoy coming back to where many of them started.
I always enjoyed playing City League teams for those two specific reasons...I felt like there were always 2nd and 3rd generation fans just coming out and watching games which was cool to see, and all of the players generally just enjoyed playing the sport far more than those in some other programs.
 

Roscoe

Member
I know for an absolute fact that Perrysburg admin spearheaded a campaign among other ADs to not allow Clay entry into the NLL. What you have heard very well may be the story to external partners, but that isnt the whole story.

Regardless, the situation is what it is currently, and I personally believe that Findlay would be the team jumping ship were Maumee to leave the NLL due to numerous conversations with connected individuals. Could Clay jump them? Sure...it helps that nearly all of the "wronged" parties are out at all levels, but I think the power brokers in the NLL know that Findlay would be the far better choice for the conference.
Just curious why you think that Findlay would get an invite over Fremont if the situation occured? Findlay’s enrollment would further the gap between the large and small NLL schools. Whereas Fremont seems to fit in the middle.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
If it is to have the best likelihood of coming to pass, the "mega conference" would like include the following teams:

SJJ/SUA, SFS/NDA, Central, Whitmer, Findlay, Clay, and Ross from the TRAC
Every NLL team
Otsego, Lake, Genoa, Rossford, and Eastwood from the NBC
Evergreen, Swanton, and Delta (and maybe LC) from the NWOAL
Columbian and Oak Harbor from the NBC
Ottawa Hills, Northwood, and Stritch from the TAAC
Again, this is a wish-list pure and simple. Every time this topic comes around everyone throws their two cents in on who should go where without any regard as to why or why not they would do it. I understand we are dealing with hypotheticals but WHY would Oak Harbor and Tiffin Columbian leave the SBC? Name one good reason? The big division (Lake) of the SBC (which is a mega-conference - kudos for vision) consists of Columbian, Clyde, Sandusky, Norwalk, Bellevue, Perkins (all 250-330 boys). What is broke for them? They do not have to travel to Toledo and all schools are relatively close (Routes 23 and 2).

Why would the teams you mention leave the NWOAL? Again, another great and very secure league with longstanding rivalries and all are relatively close.

Same can be said of the NBC. With the exception of Elmwood who is small the league parity is really good. Similar sized schools and all East of River travel. What would be their incentive?

Again, it will not happen anytime soon because the NLL is a very secure and stable league. I could see something happening between the TRAC and TCL but only IF someone were to leave the TRAC and at this point I do not see that happening and even if it did the TCL might be the one to say sorry, no thanks, based off of how the TRAC schools bolted the old TCL. It will only be based on need.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
Ahem

no one got shot at Wootward this weekend.

Honest question: is that presumption or overheard? We talking teams or fans? They do not seem to have a problem coming to the Eastside. Any concern about the northside is just an educational moment waiting for an adult. If anything, the concern should be going to PBurg or Whitehouse. There are so many chaw-chewin-cwiggers (we listen to country-western but have never seen a cow) in those communities it'll strip the brown off a Ho-Ho.
Unsure if they would want to drive to CCHS either? No parking AND you might get shot (cchs1983 is steaming).3503

Your last sentence is as spot on as I've ever seen.

Presumption but based off of the fact that everyone loses sight of the fact that the NLL is a very good stable and secure league. Why would I give up travel to another NLL team's facility where there is parking and stands and concessions to head to Woodward where there is no parking and some small stands?

No one likes being the small guy in a conference so you constantly hear about Maumee and Napoleon leaving but that is based mostly in a fans perception that they could win championships in a different conference. They are right to a degree but there is far more that goes into the consideration than just wins and losses.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
And you would be wrong.

I know that when Rossford left most league members thought Clay would be it, but then they visited both schools, and Napoleon sold them. The meeting with Clay was perfunctory. Napoleon brought in representatives fo the school, Board members, community leaders, etc., and sold the town and what they had to offer as the best choice. And that swung the vote.
Bingo. Clay basically complained as to why they had not been invited already and Napoleon put on a show of how great they are. I was told AD's changed their mind on the spot.

I also remember hearing that there were some Perrysburg folks, I believe the baseball coach, who wanted nothing to do with Clay joining the league. That may or may not be true but chs1971's assessment is exactly how it went down and was the true reason.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
Why would I give up travel to another NLL team's facility where there is parking and stands and concessions to head to Woodward where there is no parking and some small stands?
Woodward has the best stands in NW Ohio. You can stand on the 20, the 30, wherever you want! You can even bring your own seat, as long as you don't carry it in a handbag.

I'm not sure exactly what it is, but I really like going to games at Woodward. Feels like a family picnic I suppose.
 

ToledoGuy

New member
Bingo. Clay basically complained as to why they had not been invited already and Napoleon put on a show of how great they are. I was told AD's changed their mind on the spot.

I also remember hearing that there were some Perrysburg folks, I believe the baseball coach, who wanted nothing to do with Clay joining the league. That may or may not be true but chs1971's assessment is exactly how it went down and was the true reason.
We're all saying the same thing here...once Clay had their first reach out to a few parties, one school (Perrysburg) took it upon themselves to never let Clay into the conference. There is a reason why two ADs at other NLL schools at the time are now administrators in Perrysburg Schools. Back scratching at it's finest.
 

ToledoGuy

New member
Alas, this has digressed quite a bit, much of it is my fault I suppose. Anyone care to venture a guess at Week 2 results?

Detroit Harper Woods at Central Catholic
Clay at Northview
Findlay at Perrysburg
Ross at Start
Piqua at Lima Senior
Southview vs St. Francis at UT
St John's Jesuit at Anthony Wayne
Whitmer at Detroit Catholic Central
 

NLLBEST

Member
Central? Know nothing about Harper
Clay 28-17 NV may be without their qb.
Findlay 24-21 another tough one for Findlay but I think they’re going to start fast and hold on in this one.
Start? Tough to call, thinking Whitmer could just be that good.
Piqua assuming they’re better than LCC
SFS, yikes
AW 31-28, SJJ breaks a few big plays but AW wins up front and I’d guess Alberts is dynamic at qb
Whitmer by 14
 

Maple_City_Fan

Active member
Ross had 625 boys at one point as well. Also, IB is correct; why would Columbian leave SBC Lake? Travel is great, backyard rivalries are great, and has the chance being one of the more competitive mid-size school conferences in the state. Bellevue nearly made it 5 of 6 to make playoffs last year, and co-champs Clyde and TC gave way to next tier in Region 10 title game with Norwalk taking the belt and doing an Aaron Rodgers discount double check.
 

eastisbest

Well-known member
If Lima beats Piqua, they might have a small chance of making the playoffs. I’m just not sure 6-4 would get them in.
6-4 got Parma Hts in last year but they had the advantage of being the odd ball team from the other side of the state, instead of one swapping points with a lot of teams in the region. Lima will gets buckets of D6 pts from LCC I imagine but they could use another good win and they have a tough schedule don't they? Riverside pretty good team. Step at a time I guess.
 

HighSchoolFB45

Active member
6-4 got Parma Hts in last year but they had the advantage of being the odd ball team from the other side of the state, instead of one swapping points with a lot of teams in the region. Lima will gets buckets of D6 pts from LCC I imagine but they could use another good win and they have a tough schedule don't they? Riverside pretty good team. Step at a time I guess.
There’s no way they beat TCC or Whitmer. Seriously doubt they can beat SJJ. The rest of the games are toss ups in my opinion.
 

CCHS93

Member
Woodward has the best stands in NW Ohio. You can stand on the 20, the 30, wherever you want! You can even bring your own seat, as long as you don't carry it in a handbag.

I'm not sure exactly what it is, but I really like going to games at Woodward. Feels like a family picnic I suppose.
If there is a mega league, it would be pretty unlikely that many NLL teams would travel to Woodward because of the huge disparity in the quality of the programs. I can see some NLL teams traveling to occasional TCL schools. But if there is a mega league I think it would be occasional.
 

CCHS93

Member
Agree on all points. This is the first time Whitmer has had a good running back since Malik Moore. It certainly helps. Unsure how good Start REALLY is and that is no swipe at Coach Pargo and his staff or his kids. The Spartans lost a lot from a team that got beat 30-0 last year to Findlay and were also beaten by a D4 school in Bellevue who finished the season 4-6. I hope the Panthers take this win with a grain of salt because DCC and Perrysburg will be a far different animal.

I'm interested in seeing the SJ-BG game as well. I see a very different result from last year. I also see the Springfield-CCHS game will be live on BCSN2. Any bets on a shutout?
I was pleasantly surprised with Central's performance on both sides of the ball. That first play from scrimmage 97 yard TD set the tone. Norrils looks pretty good. Vargas looked good as well for his first time out there. Pretty crazy to have 2 90 yard plus TDs in any game, let alone in the first half of the season opener. Defense played really well too. Another crazy thing was to have 2 pick 6's called back on the same drive. Springfield couldnt get anything going. We will see how this win looks in a few weeks. Maybe Springfield isnt all that good. Nevertheless, good opening win for Central.
 
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