March 1st, Everything Opens, Mask optional, No Restrictions!

I haven’t criticized Biden at all. I’ve criticized people that say we are improving now due to Biden. He hasn’t been in office long enough to do anything. It’s just childish gloating about nothing that diminishes the true heroes.

This will end, and probably very shortly. Go out and about any weekend and stores and restaurants are packed. Manufacturing workers have been back to work full tilt since May. I get to 5-6 factories a week, and only about half even require masks anymore. The only holdouts are a few school systems and college professors. And that will change by next school year or I guarantee there will be hell to pay. Colleges are going to see financial hardship and public schools will lose community support.

What else can happen? Wait for variant after variant? How do you even know if one variant is more deadly or worse than another? Our scientific community has done an awful job of cataloging and mapping samples, so they are just spitballing off of incomplete data.

And no one is even talking about the elephant in the room. They are starting to hit the critical mass as far as those that will take the vaccine in the subgroups. I watch a four county area and they are begging people to show up at clinics. All the way through the day of the clinic, messages pop up that there are still tons of spots left. Nursing homes are pretty much tapped out at 50-60 percent. Maybe all these chuckleheads like Trump, Cuomo, Biden, Pelosi, Fauci, Newsome, Dewine, et al. could have put their political game playing aside and and done a full court blitz and tried to ease the anxiety throughout the public about the safety of the vaccine from day #1 of development. They did the opposite and questioned the approval process. WTF? But hey, stuff like the crying nurse commercial was money well spent. May of even resulted in more people meandering out and about with their underwear mask “saving” people.

Sorry the vaccine safety issue is on Trump and his followers. Have you heard any democratic leader question the safety or necessity of the vaccine? I have not. Otherwise I agree with you unless a variant develops that does pose a truly serious threat to life and the current vaccines aren’t effective in fighting it. I believe science will eventually defeat COVID, but that’s probably going to take a lot more cooperation from all the American people.
 
Sorry the vaccine safety issue is on Trump and his followers. Have you heard any democratic leader question the safety or necessity of the vaccine? I have not. Otherwise I agree with you unless a variant develops that does pose a truly serious threat to life and the current vaccines aren’t effective in fighting it. I believe science will eventually defeat COVID, but that’s probably going to take a lot more cooperation from all the American people.
Man, you must have been under a rock in late October and early November. Newsome and Cuomo both went on record that their states were going to do their own review because they were afraid Trump would compromise the approval. Pelosi said something very similar. And Fauci was silent. He should have been raising holy hell supporting the independent government agencies that were analyzing the data. Those were his people.
 
Man, you must have been under a rock in late October and early November. Newsome and Cuomo both went on record that their states were going to do their own review because they were afraid Trump would compromise the approval. Pelosi said something very similar. And Fauci was silent. He should have been raising holy hell supporting the independent government agencies that were analyzing the data. Those were his people.

But that is not refusing the vaccine, or doubting the validity of it. That’s more about not trusting Trump. Fauci was quiet because he didn’t trust anythingTrump said. Why would any state want the Trump adm to evaluate anything in their state related to COVID.
 
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So how does this end. You folks haven’t even given Biden a chance. You criticize everything. That is astonishing after the free pass Trump was given. Democracies that do not understand the importance of compromise fail. We need, both Dems and Rep, to elect people who will compromise and put the country first.
New to this planet I see...
 
Yeah, but he lied to us. Told us it was like the flu and would soon end. Nothing to worry about. And, he knew the truth months earlier (Woodward tapes) and let Americans die. Had he just told the truth, how many people would have masked up and socially distanced and lived. That is unforgiveable.
We've been masked up and socially distanced for nearly a year now.
 
But that is not refusing the vaccine, or doubting the validity of it. That’s more about not trusting Trump. Fauci was quiet because he didn’t trust anythingTrump said. Why would any state want the Trump adm to evaluate anything in their state related to COVID.
The approval process was done by career scientists with a neutral oversight board and may be the most critical scientific breakthrough in a century. The exact quotes from Newsome and Cuomo can be found all over the web. Leaders of over 50-million citizens and leaders of hard hit states. They were not going to take the federal government’s evaluator agencies findings and they were going to form there own agencies to approve. Why? Did they have evidence of evaluators not doing their job? Have you heard a peep from any whistleblower since that the process wasn’t on the full up-and-up? Nope. Because Trump was going to take credit and win the election? That’s a far cry from disrupting an impartial analysis. Pure political noise from people who you said were above that. Guess what, the seeds of doubt they sewed with no firm basis killed people and are killing people today. They are no better than any other garden variety slug.
 
Sorry the vaccine safety issue is on Trump and his followers. Have you heard any democratic leader question the safety or necessity of the vaccine? I have not. Otherwise I agree with you unless a variant develops that does pose a truly serious threat to life and the current vaccines aren’t effective in fighting it. I believe science will eventually defeat COVID, but that’s probably going to take a lot more cooperation from all the American people.
The vice president is on line 2.
 
And there is the problem. We have reached a point where it is a power struggle where each side hits their opponent with a hammer when they gain the upper hand. Each side votes as a party block and punishes the other side even if it’s bad for their constituents. No common sense to reach across the aisle and make sure what is going on is prudent and checked. Both sides are guilty, so if your side is not in power, your only recourse is to hope for complete failure.
Are you versed in tactical politics? The ends justifies the means.
 
I haven’t criticized Biden at all. I’ve criticized people that say we are improving now due to Biden. He hasn’t been in office long enough to do anything. It’s just childish gloating about nothing that diminishes the true heroes.

This will end, and probably very shortly. Go out and about any weekend and stores and restaurants are packed. Manufacturing workers have been back to work full tilt since May. I get to 5-6 factories a week, and only about half even require masks anymore. The only holdouts are a few school systems and college professors. And that will change by next school year or I guarantee there will be hell to pay. Colleges are going to see financial hardship and public schools will lose community support.

What else can happen? Wait for variant after variant? How do you even know if one variant is more deadly or worse than another? Our scientific community has done an awful job of cataloging and mapping samples, so they are just spitballing off of incomplete data.

And no one is even talking about the elephant in the room. They are starting to hit the critical mass as far as those that will take the vaccine in the subgroups. I watch a four county area and they are begging people to show up at clinics. All the way through the day of the clinic, messages pop up that there are still tons of spots left. Nursing homes are pretty much tapped out at 50-60 percent. Maybe all these chuckleheads like Trump, Cuomo, Biden, Pelosi, Fauci, Newsome, Dewine, et al. could have put their political game playing aside and and done a full court blitz and tried to ease the anxiety throughout the public about the safety of the vaccine from day #1 of development. They did the opposite and questioned the approval process. WTF? But hey, stuff like the crying nurse commercial was money well spent. May of even resulted in more people meandering out and about with their underwear mask “saving” people.
Are you discounting herd immunity?
 
Are you discounting herd immunity?
No, not at all. Masks and social distancing have always been a stopgap response. And maybe not even a good one. Immunity through a combination of natural progression and vaccine, or simply living with it and getting sick once a year, are the only way to move forward once a virus gets out of containment and is too robust to die out on its own.
 
The approval process was done by career scientists with a neutral oversight board and may be the most critical scientific breakthrough in a century. The exact quotes from Newsome and Cuomo can be found all over the web. Leaders of over 50-million citizens and leaders of hard hit states. They were not going to take the federal government’s evaluator agencies findings and they were going to form there own agencies to approve. Why? Did they have evidence of evaluators not doing their job? Have you heard a peep from any whistleblower since that the process wasn’t on the full up-and-up? Nope. Because Trump was going to take credit and win the election? That’s a far cry from disrupting an impartial analysis. Pure political noise from people who you said were above that. Guess what, the seeds of doubt they sewed with no firm basis killed people and are killing people today. They are no better than any other garden variety slug.

Trump’s guys is all the proof anyone would need to be suspicious. Skills and competency were never big with Trump when choosing people for any government assignment. Everything you said was a ridiculous reach. No one with any sense would expect any kind of competent, objective evaluation from anyone connected to the Trump administration.
 
Trump’s guys is all the proof anyone would need to be suspicious. Skills and competency were never big with Trump when choosing people for any government assignment. Everything you said was a ridiculous reach. No one with any sense would expect any kind of competent, objective evaluation from anyone connected to the Trump administration.
But Trump’s guys had nothing to do with the approval. It was existing government agencies with a neutral oversight committee. Dr. Fauci was in his position years before Trump ever decided to enter politics. And to say the actual scientists that were responsible for the process could be driven by political motives is an insult. Again, I will ask, has a single whistleblower come forward and highlight any undue pressure to lie or cut corners?

It’s a ridiculous argument. Maybe one of the most ridiculous in the whole year long debate. Looking back, there are quotes from Biden, Harris, Newsome, and Cuomo that call into question the safety of the vaccine due to Trump. Why? Because the president was a blow-hard and kept saying how great and wonderful the vaccine was going to be? Because he kept gloating that it could be here by Election Day? And then you have the gall to say no Democratics ever questioned the vaccine’s safety? GMAFB. And notice, I did put Trump first on my list of chuckleheads. He should have never used the vaccine as an election tool. But I guess wrongness in your mind is only one direction.
 
But Trump’s guys had nothing to do with the approval. It was existing government agencies with a neutral oversight committee. Dr. Fauci was in his position years before Trump ever decided to enter politics. And to say the actual scientists that were responsible for the process could be driven by political motives is an insult. Again, I will ask, has a single whistleblower come forward and highlight any undue pressure to lie or cut corners?

It’s a ridiculous argument. Maybe one of the most ridiculous in the whole year long debate. Looking back, there are quotes from Biden, Harris, Newsome, and Cuomo that call into question the safety of the vaccine due to Trump. Why? Because the president was a blow-hard and kept saying how great and wonderful the vaccine was going to be? Because he kept gloating that it could be here by Election Day? And then you have the gall to say no Democratics ever questioned the vaccine’s safety? GMAFB. And notice, I did put Trump first on my list of chuckleheads. He should have never used the vaccine as an election tool. But I guess wrongness in your mind is only one direction.

I think he's equating "cutting corners" with the easing of unnecessary and burdensome regulations.

He also ignores the key role that the Trump administrations commitment to underwrite production scale-up costs played in the quick turnaround here.
 
I think he's equating "cutting corners" with the easing of unnecessary and burdensome regulations.

He also ignores the key role that the Trump administrations commitment to underwrite production scale-up costs played in the quick turnaround here.
No, he is picking and choosing the science he believes in based off of his political views. The CDC says to wear a mask, but Trump hates it, well they are right. The career FDA scientists approved a vaccine that Trump had his hand in and will make him look good, well they are probably crooked and the dems that questioned it are heroes. See, science is politics and politics is science. It will be really interesting a year from now to see how they spin it when vials of vaccine doses are sitting in the shelves and a large percentage of the population are still saying “stick it”.
 
No, not at all. Masks and social distancing have always been a stopgap response. And maybe not even a good one. Immunity through a combination of natural progression and vaccine, or simply living with it and getting sick once a year, are the only way to move forward once a virus gets out of containment and is too robust to die out on its own.
Over 500,000 dead and your suggesting we give herd immunity a try w/o masks, etc. How many more dead would that have led to?
No, he is picking and choosing the science he believes in based off of his political views. The CDC says to wear a mask, but Trump hates it, well they are right. The career FDA scientists approved a vaccine that Trump had his hand in and will make him look good, well they are probably crooked and the dems that questioned it are heroes. See, science is politics and politics is science. It will be really interesting a year from now to see how they spin it when vials of vaccine doses are sitting in the shelves and a large percentage of the population are still saying “stick it”.

You really would consider anything Trump said that would contradict Fauci, or any other scientist? Like I said earlier, keep shooting off your mouth. You’re at risk for looking like one dumb MFer. But, you’re probably used to that. That statement applies to several of you.
 
Over 500,000 dead and your suggesting we give herd immunity a try w/o masks, etc. How many more dead would that have led to?


You really would consider anything Trump said that would contradict Fauci, or any other scientist? Like I said earlier, keep shooting off your mouth. You’re at risk for looking like one dumb MFer. But, you’re probably used to that. That statement applies to several of you.
Wow, are you eight? A guy that presents absolutely nothing but headline level sound bites and emotion. What a douchbag.
 
No, he is picking and choosing the science he believes in based off of his political views. The CDC says to wear a mask, but Trump hates it, well they are right. The career FDA scientists approved a vaccine that Trump had his hand in and will make him look good, well they are probably crooked and the dems that questioned it are heroes. See, science is politics and politics is science. It will be really interesting a year from now to see how they spin it when vials of vaccine doses are sitting in the shelves and a large percentage of the population are still saying “stick it”.
Science is now Politics. Skeptics are shunned. MSM and internet is the science of today imo Good point
 
This is a great example of the politicization of science.


A Swedish professor of epidemiology has quit researching COVID-19 after facing fierce backlash over his findings that the illness poses a low threat to children — undermining the political argument that schools can’t reopen.

Jonas Ludvigsson, a professor of clinical epidemiology at the Karolinska Institute, said he has lost sleep as a result of the “angry messages through social media and email” assailing his study and partly blaming him for Sweden’s contrarian COVID-19 strategy, the College Fix reported.

His research focused on children ages 1 to 16 during the first wave of the pandemic last spring, including those with “laboratory-verified or clinically verified COVID-19, including patients who were admitted for multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children” because it’s “likely” related to the bug.

Only 15 children went to the ICU — a rate of 0.77 per 100,000, according to the report. Four had “an underlying chronic coexisting condition” and none died.

As far as teachers, “fewer than” 30 ended up in the ICU during the same period — a rate of about 19 per 100,000.

Ludvigsson also noted that children weren’t wearing face masks, while the rest of Swedish citizens were simply “encouraged” to practice social distancing.

And for this work he gets death threats.
 
This is a great example of the politicization of science.


A Swedish professor of epidemiology has quit researching COVID-19 after facing fierce backlash over his findings that the illness poses a low threat to children — undermining the political argument that schools can’t reopen.

Jonas Ludvigsson, a professor of clinical epidemiology at the Karolinska Institute, said he has lost sleep as a result of the “angry messages through social media and email” assailing his study and partly blaming him for Sweden’s contrarian COVID-19 strategy, the College Fix reported.

His research focused on children ages 1 to 16 during the first wave of the pandemic last spring, including those with “laboratory-verified or clinically verified COVID-19, including patients who were admitted for multisystem inflammatory syndrome in children” because it’s “likely” related to the bug.

Only 15 children went to the ICU — a rate of 0.77 per 100,000, according to the report. Four had “an underlying chronic coexisting condition” and none died.

As far as teachers, “fewer than” 30 ended up in the ICU during the same period — a rate of about 19 per 100,000.


Ludvigsson also noted that children weren’t wearing face masks, while the rest of Swedish citizens were simply “encouraged” to practice social distancing.

And for this work he gets death threats.
Reading the rest of the article, I will make the counter argument that this professor writing a letter to the editor was an act of politicizing his scientific findings in an attempt to receive further protections for their work. It would seem to me that someone who is receiving death threats and losing sleep over his research wouldn't want to further spread his name and/or work to more people. One could also assume that this scientist was acting in a manner to gain notoriety and not for the benefit of science.

I am not saying I necessarily believe this, but this is an example of how one scenario can be interpreted two ways. This is why I would personally prefer to read the studies myself and reserve judgment until then, but as I have said before, most of our country is unwilling to do so.
 
But Trump’s guys had nothing to do with the approval. It was existing government agencies with a neutral oversight committee. Dr. Fauci was in his position years before Trump ever decided to enter politics. And to say the actual scientists that were responsible for the process could be driven by political motives is an insult. Again, I will ask, has a single whistleblower come forward and highlight any undue pressure to lie or cut corners?

Was Fauci free to speak his mind while Trump was in office? I’m sure the scientists would do their job, but Trump would still try to control the message, or completely lie about the findings. NY and California were targets of Trumps from the outset. I don’t blame them for not trusting anything coming from the Trump administration.

It’s a ridiculous argument. Maybe one of the most ridiculous in the whole year long debate. Looking back, there are quotes from Biden, Harris, Newsome, and Cuomo that call into question the safety of the vaccine due to Trump. Why? Because the president was a blow-hard and kept saying how great and wonderful the vaccine was going to be? Because he kept gloating that it could be here by Election Day? And then you have the gall to say no Democratics ever questioned the vaccine’s safety? GMAFB. And notice, I did put Trump first on my list of chuckleheads. He should have never used the vaccine as an election tool. But I guess wrongness in your mind is only one direction.

Yeah, due to Trump. They didn’t trust Trump. Why is that so hard to understand. He is a lying POS, and the cult believes everything he says.
 
Wow, are you eight? A guy that presents absolutely nothing but headline level sound bites and emotion. What a douchbag.

And you want to appear objective, but you completely shy away from specifically condemning Trump for anything. You’re one of “the Dems do the same thing“ crowd, but you’re very wrong. There have been Dems who have made major mistakes an done some pretty bad things, but no one ever to the level of Trump.
 
And you want to appear objective, but you completely shy away from specifically condemning Trump for anything. You’re one of “the Dems do the same thing“ crowd, but you’re very wrong. There have been Dems who have made major mistakes an done some pretty bad things, but no one ever to the level of Trump.
So you feel that the politicians in Washington have never done things to the level of Trump? I would disagree whole-heartedly and say that Trump was not as good at doing these bad things as our politicians.
 
And you want to appear objective, but you completely shy away from specifically condemning Trump for anything. You’re one of “the Dems do the same thing“ crowd, but you’re very wrong. There have been Dems who have made major mistakes an done some pretty bad things, but no one ever to the level of Trump.
You are absolutely silly. The vaccine was being developed under the Trump administration. Not Biden, not Clinton, not Obama. Trump. So either you trust the science, as you appear to when it fits your narrative, or you don’t. You appear to trust Fauci. You appear to trust the CDC. But the one thing that was going to end the whole thing, eh, that agency might be crooked. So all your little Dem buddies go on record and say I will not trust a vaccine approved under the Trump administration. Think about that for a minute. Trust the science of all these other government agencies, but don’t trust the one that may benefit Trump’s re-election campaign. I could care less about Donald Trump. He is a blow-hard rectum. I do care immensely that we have a vaccine that is not being accepted across the spectrum. Right wing, elderly, minorities. Get your head out of CNN and Trump and look at the damn health department web sites. Talk to nursing home case managers. Talk to medical personnel.

And then you throw out the condescending 500k dead and herd immunity will kill thousands more. Hey Einstein, actually read my posts. It’s going to be a mixture where hopefully a majority of the immunity will be by vaccine. But if they don’t get people on board at a level above 50-60%, it’s gonna be natural. Their decision, not mine or yours.

Sure would have been nice if the black, female VP that is looked up by many women and minorities would of said I trust Dr. Fauci and the FDA. I have confidence that they will maintain their professional standards of conduct and come forward if undue pressure is being applied for political gain. But no, she said she wouldn’t take any vaccine developed under the Trump administration. Whose was she going to take? Insert Cuomo, insert Biden, insert Newsome. All of them could have messaged differently and not hurt their standing and help build confidence in the process. But they didn’t. And you are to obtuse to understand the problem. By the way, whose administration’s vaccine is being safely put in the arms of tens of millions of people? Did any of those secondary evaluations ever happen? Nope, looks like the process was good even with all Trump’s idiotic rhetoric. Hmm.
 
TrueEagle = or should we use Douchbag

According to the Tenth Amendment ... And this is Totally Against what you Want

Each State retains its Sovereignty, Freedom, independence ......

Each state retains its sovereignty, freedom, and independence, and every power, jurisdiction, and right, which is not by this Confederation expressly delegated to the United States, in Congress assembled.[7]
 
So far the little I've seen on the long lasting effects of covid infection is that they're not expected to be much different then the flu. For most people there won't be any.

I completely misunderstood nupanther's question but I would reiterate that by far the worst SHORT & LONG TERM damage of the covid to young people will be the effects of the lock downs. Direct covid effects will be like a pea on an elephants back in comparison.

A small number of people can’t shake the COVID symptoms, some severe, even after being proclaimed over the illness. That includes some children. We still don’t really know what we are dealing with.
 
You are absolutely silly. The vaccine was being developed under the Trump administration. Not Biden, not Clinton, not Obama. Trump. So either you trust the science, as you appear to when it fits your narrative, or you don’t. You appear to trust Fauci. You appear to trust the CDC. But the one thing that was going to end the whole thing, eh, that agency might be crooked. So all your little Dem buddies go on record and say I will not trust a vaccine approved under the Trump administration. Think about that for a minute. Trust the science of all these other government agencies, but don’t trust the one that may benefit Trump’s re-election campaign. I could care less about Donald Trump. He is a blow-hard rectum. I do care immensely that we have a vaccine that is not being accepted across the spectrum. Right wing, elderly, minorities. Get your head out of CNN and Trump and look at the damn health department web sites. Talk to nursing home case managers. Talk to medical personnel.

What I and others didn’t trust was Trump. He tried hard to get the scientists to lie to fit his narrative of the virus, or have you conveniently forgotten that. Birx ruined her reputation and retired because she fell for Trump’s BS. I never said I didn’t trust the science. Not once. Trump would lie and misrepresent anything, scientifically proven or not, to discredit the states of New York or California.


And then you throw out the condescending 500k dead and herd immunity will kill thousands more. Hey Einstein, actually read my posts. It’s going to be a mixture where hopefully a majority of the immunity will be by vaccine. But if they don’t get people on board at a level above 50-60%, it’s gonna be natural. Their decision, not mine or yours.

And, your degree is in what branch of science? You consider yourself quite the expert don’t you? I know all about the combined vaccine/COVID patients herd immunity theory. Sounds great. The problem is you can’t get the cult and other mouth breathers to get the damn vaccine.

Sure would have been nice if the black, female VP that is looked up by many women and minorities would of said I trust Dr. Fauci and the FDA. I have confidence that they will maintain their professional standards of conduct and come forward if undue pressure is being applied for political gain. But no, she said she wouldn’t take any vaccine developed under the Trump administration. Whose was she going to take? Insert Cuomo, insert Biden, insert Newsome. All of them could have messaged differently and not hurt their standing and help build confidence in the process. But they didn’t. And you are to obtuse to understand the problem. By the way, whose administration’s vaccine is being safely put in the arms of tens of millions of people? Did any of those secondary evaluations ever happen? Nope, looks like the process was good even with all Trump’s idiotic rhetoric. Hmm.

To set the record straight Harris said she would take the vaccine on the recommendation of medical science, but she would not on Trump’s word alone. That’s pretty much the same thing others said. Fact check it, and stop taking partial quotes out of context. 90% of the people who refused the vaccine probably would have taken it if Trump would have admitted to getting the vaccine himself in December. Total hole. Another example of his failed leadership costing lives.
 
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