Dems proposing 3 trillion dollar give away.

SWMCinci said:
The group that originated the order. County, State, or Federal should bear the responsibility that way they have to balance the costs, the lives, and the impact (positive and negative). What has happened so far is that in most cases the counties and states made the decision, but with the expectation that the feds would provide a backstop to whatever they decided to do, so they could do what they wanted with little to no concern about the repercussions. Now if the states were choosing to do certain things because of recommendations of the feds, then that would color the argument.
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I know what happened. My point is that the Federal government should not be providing trillions in welfare for local and state decisions. For some reason, you support that BS.
 
Indiandad said:
They did. It was unemployment. The Feds agreed to kick in an extra $600/week.
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Yeah but that was a stupid plan. The people were already getting paid. All the government needed to do was make sure they kept being paid, then no need for stimulus and no need to juice the unemployment system to essentially overpay unemployment - and Pelosi wants to extend the stupidity for 9 more months.
 
ProV1 said:
I know what happened. My point is that the Federal government should not be providing trillions in welfare for local and state decisions. For some reason, you support that BS.
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So comprehension is at least one of your problems. Please point out where I said that. I said the governments making the decisions should have been responsible for their decisions. If a city or county wants to stop Musk from making cars, they should compensate him for that. I am 100% for the federal government to get out of the welfare and forced charity business, that should be a local and state government effort because they can make the judgement call if someone is worthy of society bearing the cost of their mistakes.

The federal government should be responsible for the closers that are their responsibility or as a result of requirements that they put forth. Otherwise it's an unfunded mandate.
 
SWMCinci said:
So comprehension is at least one of your problems. Please point out where I said that. I said the governments making the decisions should have been responsible for their decisions. If a city or county wants to stop Musk from making cars, they should compensate him for that. I am 100% for the federal government to get out of the welfare and forced charity business, that should be a local and state government effort because they can make the judgement call if someone is worthy of society bearing the cost of their mistakes.

The federal government should be responsible for the closers that are their responsibility or as a result of requirements that they put forth. Otherwise it's an unfunded mandate.
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You quote was not state “governments”. It was government as in Federal. I’m sure you will back track now but good to know you are against every Federal penny.

“The government should have put the money in the pockets of the employers (big AND small) to cover salaries/benefits and fixed costs and offset the economic disruption that they mandated and maintained it until the restrictions were off.”
 
ProV1 said:
You quote was not state “governments”. It was government as in Federal. I’m sure you will back track now but good to know you are against every Federal penny.

“The government should have put the money in the pockets of the employers (big AND small) to cover salaries/benefits and fixed costs and offset the economic disruption that they mandated and maintained it until the restrictions were off.”
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Yep, I was not breaking it down by every level in this particular post but I've probably said it 20-30 times in other posts. You interpreted "government" to be federal, but notice I stated "that they mandated" again indicating the party that made the decision. No need to apologize for your lack of understanding. It's widely known. Move on.
 
SWMCinci said:
Yeah but that was a stupid plan. The people were already getting paid. All the government needed to do was make sure they kept being paid, then no need for stimulus and no need to juice the unemployment system to essentially overpay unemployment - and Pelosi wants to extend the stupidity for 9 more months.
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Yes it was a stupid plan unless of course the real intent was to incentivize people not to work which of course helps with social distancing in an attempt to slowly control the spread of the disease.
 
SWMCinci said:
Yep, I was not breaking it down by every level in this particular post but I've probably said it 20-30 times in other posts. You interpreted "government" to be federal, but notice I stated "that they mandated" again indicating the party that made the decision. No need to apologize for your lack of understanding. It's widely known. Move on.
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Really. What about this one?

“Why not just have the federal government buy a lot of stuff, everybody stays employed and the government gets something that they could use/sell later.”

If you are against Federal bailouts , why would we have the the Feds by lots of stuff to cover for the states decisions. Looks like another flop.
 
SWMCinci said:
Yep, I was not breaking it down by every level in this particular post but I've probably said it 20-30 times in other posts. You interpreted "government" to be federal, but notice I stated "that they mandated" again indicating the party that made the decision. No need to apologize for your lack of understanding. It's widely known. Move on.
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Which state pays Boeing for lost revenues in this post?

“Boeing doesn't get bailed out, they get the same revenues they would have gotten if the government didn't prohibit work and sales to continue. Boeing may not get anything if they were getting $1B in revenue in Feb and still received $1B in March. My company wouldn't receive anything because we are still on track to hit our number, this hasn't affected us at all. Next month might be different. But some restaurants closed completely, they would absolutely get something. Nobody makes the call on who gets what - it's determined by how much the government actions impacted your business.

Politicians shouldn't pick winners and losers, especially with Taxpayer money. It should go across the board asneeded, if companiesaren't laying off you can avoid the welfare aspects of this.“
 
Indiandad said:
Because $20T is not necessary. GDP, as I stated in early March, would likely take a hit of $4T from a 2 month shutdown. Infusing $4T into the economy to offset the losses is the best thing for keeping the economy from completely collapsing.

As for the debt, Mnuchin has stated that they are looking to turnour nation's o
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None of it is necessary.
 
Indiandad said:
To continue my thoughts....

Mnuchin is turning our short term debt into long term debt at much lower interest rates. The interest savings is more than $3T.

We as a nation do not have "bad debt".

The world is starved for US dollars and the creation of another $10T would be absorbed quickly globally without inflation exceeding 2%. I would much prefer that $10T be given to everyday working class US citizens than to corporate elitist. They'll get the lion's share eventually but it will improve the lives of millions of Americans (and billions of Earthlings) in the process.
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Inflation is going up with all this funny money being printed...
 
Indiandad said:
Yes it was a stupid plan unless of course the real intent was to incentivize people not to work which of course helps with social distancing in an attempt to slowly control the spread of the disease.
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Slowly control the spread of a mild virus. So we'll be doing this every fall from now on...awesome.
 
Stirred not Shaken said:
I don't know, but if not it isn't because of RINO Mikes " stay at home orders " because nobody stayed home. Went out and spent all their extra cash in stores and at the same time were infected by the bat virus brought it home and infected their families with it. I would say the reason hospitals are not over ran is because most people who get it either are asymptomatic or quarantined at home.
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Thanks for proving our point. Couldn't have done it better ourselves.
 
Indiandad said:
To continue my thoughts....

Mnuchin is turning our short term debt into long term debt at much lower interest rates. The interest savings is more than $3T.

We as a nation do not have "bad debt".

The world is starved for US dollars and the creation of another $10T would be absorbed quickly globally without inflation exceeding 2%. I would much prefer that $10T be given to everyday working class US citizens than to corporate elitist. They'll get the lion's share eventually but it will improve the lives of millions of Americans (and billions of Earthlings) in the process.
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Wait who pays the interest on the debt?
 
y2h said:
Slowly control the spread of a mild virus. So we'll be doing this every fall from now on...awesome.
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I didn't agree with the shutdown in March and don't now.

I'm just explaining the rationale behind the actions that were taken.
 
Indiandad said:
No it is not.

The data proves it.
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That’s very true. Reason is there has been some deflation that has really flattened inflation. Main factor is the lockdown with fuel prices and overall consumer spending. This is a pause and will not last long.
 
ProV1 said:
Really. What about this one?

“Why not just have the federal government buy a lot of stuff, everybody stays employed and the government gets something that they could use/sell later.”

If you are against Federal bailouts , why would we have the the Feds by lots of stuff to cover for the states decisions. Looks like another flop.
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That was in response to the Dock's post about how stimulus money gets directed through the economy. You have problems with both context AND comprehension. You might want to go back and try to get your money back from whoever educated you. Either they failed you or you failed them big time.
 
ProV1 said:
Which state pays Boeing for lost revenues in this post?

“Boeing doesn't get bailed out, they get the same revenues they would have gotten if the government didn't prohibit work and sales to continue. Boeing may not get anything if they were getting $1B in revenue in Feb and still received $1B in March. My company wouldn't receive anything because we are still on track to hit our number, this hasn't affected us at all. Next month might be different. But some restaurants closed completely, they would absolutely get something. Nobody makes the call on who gets what - it's determined by how much the government actions impacted your business.

Politicians shouldn't pick winners and losers, especially with Taxpayer money. It should go across the board asneeded, if companiesaren't laying off you can avoid the welfare aspects of this.“
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Boeing factories are affected by state and local orders, same as an auto factory. What Boeing would get is a payment for their fixed and labor costs that were affected by the order. If the state and local governments need to receive their property, sales, and business taxes in order to operate they have to balance the safety and public interests of Boeing being able to continue to operate/exist.

Again, context and comprehension. You don't get it. You keep picking at it, but you aren't incisive enough to really hit the mark, so let me help you. The example you really want to use is the airline industry (which is Boeing's customer), they were affected not by a direct order or requirement by a specific government, but a combination of orders, requirements, and suggestions from a variety of state & local and the federal government that effectively put a ban on travel without actually putting a ban on travel. The airline industry would be an example of an entity that would receive federal coverage due to the activity of the individual states - indirectly impacted but of a national consequence.
 
Yorktown said:
That’s very true. Reason is there has been some deflation that has really flattened inflation. Main factor is the lockdown with fuel prices and overall consumer spending. This is a pause and will not last long.
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Obama put $10T+ into the money supply and inflation struggled to hit 2%.
 
my2sense said:
Dems just trying to buy the election because they know otherwise their chances are not good.
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LOL, Trump already has said he supports another round of stimulus checks. Not sure why liberals dislike Trump so much, Queen Nancy beckons and Trump grovels at her feet. More money is coming ( stimulus checks ) their is no discipline in D.C. what so ever. Trump will bankrupt America like he did so many of his own companies except this time America's future generations will pay the price for his reckless spending.
 
wghfan said:
3 trillion wasted. That package sux. Waste of money, and gave out in the wrong areas
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The problem is it’s a police bill but they loaded it up with other stuff. Every police department in America is hurting for money and this needs to be passed fast. I’d say just lay us off
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