Year in School vs. Age

 
Holding back is a huge problem. As is many other things involved with the dads who sucked at wrestling living through their kids.

It’s a systematic problem now though. Fixing it will require a lot of people to look at the sport differently.. and to be okay with a system that people who started as freshman or in middle school have more than a slim chance of becoming elite
 
If you're 5'3 and 85 lbs. entering HS, you shouldn't be entering HS, IMO. Your Mom & Dad screwed up the timing...:)
 
Crossface86 said:
Oh, I forgot an important piece ... back in the day you were allowed to wrestle (any sport really) varsity in 7th and 8th grade, BUT you were only allowed 4 years of varsity eligibility. That way kids who were held back for whatever reason could still get 4 years of varsity. This prevented for the most part the potential for wide age gaps at the varsity level.

This was my case. I wrestled varsity as an 8th grader because the varsity team lacked a 105 kid. However, I then wrestled JV my Freshman year so that retained my varsity eligibility for my last 3 years.

And to many of your points, my daughter is finishing her first year at Miami. She entered last Fall with 47 credit hours, which under 'normal' circumstances would make her a Sophomore. When she starts in the Fall, she'll have amassed 85 hours (lots of Winter and Summer classes in there), which some would say makes her a second semester Junior. I say she's in her second year. This is the point I am making - the label of Freshman, Sophomore, etc. in college, just as in wrestling, really is pointless and a bit misguided.

My daughter will be starting her second year regardless of how many credit hours she has completed; a 17 year old wrestler is 17 regardless of what year-label he has. The year-label means nothing in both cases. It's about maturity.

And yes, I was asked how old I was in a job interview; I admitted to my Navy recruiter that I was 19 ;)
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I was also asked my age in an interview. I was 17 and allowed to enlist. The dates had to later be changed though. I enlisted on my 17th birthday but you had to leave for basic withone one year of enlilsting and since I was an april enlist it had to be pushed back to june. I left 2 days after graduating hs.
I was a teacher/coach for 20 plus years. It was not very well taken when I would tell my athletes not to take college classes while in hs. Why rush life instead of enjoying it. Why graduate college at 21 so you can enter the workforce at 21 and work the rest of your life. SLOW DOWN. Go to college when you are 20-21. Spend 5 years in college. Why rush it all? How many of those same parents complaining about the age of an athlete are the same ones rushing their kids through their life? If someone is entering college with enough credits to be a sophmore, I truely feel sorry for them. Geez, now you can graduate at 20 and then work for the rest of your life. Congratulations. lol..

One of my idol human beings is rob waller. We have many conversations about all this. He would say, reg, if you are an a hole when you close your doors at home then get all kids out of your house as quick as you can. If you love your kids and live in a nurturing home, why wouldnt you want to keep your kids in that environment while they are still learning how to figure it all out.
 
No one really has an issue with hold backs for actual legitimate reasons.. holding a kid back “redshirting” it’s called sometimes to give a kid an “advantage” in high school wrestling is what is being talked about.

Much like most psycho dad behavior. It’s done. A majority of the time by ones who never did anything worthwhile themselves and live through their kid.

The excuses are legion. Which is to be expected. One can rationalize almost anything in the purpose of living out a “dream” through their child
 
Ugly Jack,

Did these “psycho dads“ tell you that their athletic careers never amounted to anything? Or are you just assuming that they are psychotic and were terrible in their younger days?
 
WishYouWereHere said:
Ugly Jack,

Did these “psycho dads“ tell you that their athletic careers never amounted to anything? Or are you just assuming that they are psychotic and were terrible in their younger days?
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My personal experience is that the worst of them you almost always find out they either never did the sport, quit, or were mediocre at best. By a high proportion. My friends from around the country have observed the same thing.

It’s ubiquitous to the point you can almost tell if a parent played a college sport(not just wrestling) by how serious they get about elementary competition and practice.

Is it the case “every” time.. no of course not not. But I’ve encountered it enough as both an athlete and a coach, and had friends who grew up in it or deal with it as coaches to stand by what I said. I’ve seen a direct correlation between parent’s experiences and accomplishments and how they “coach” little Johnny or susy. I’ve also seen it in the softball and basketball youth circuits. It’s not just wrestling but wrestling is one of the worst
 
I wonder what percentage of those kids look back and regret basically throwing a year away just to have a better high school sports career.
 
Crossface86 said:
Thanks for serving our country! The best experience of my life.

Fortunately my daughter has outstanding parents who have not rushed her through life. She's a former H.S. athlete, incredibly intelligent and driven, and fully intends to spend all 8 semesters in college because of her 2 majors, 4 minors 2 certifications and multiple study abroad experiences. Please don't feel sorry for her. No doubt she'll be running some facet of our world's economy someday giving jobs to the lesser motivated who unfortunately had their glory days in high school. And thank you, I accept your Congratulations ;)
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I am very happy for her. and you!! WE all for sure find our paths. I hope my kids look to take over my businesses some day. I dont know that my middle son is a college bound kid. My oldest is. All kids are different and them being judged and labeled by internet people is pretty sad.
 
I wish I could say the military was a great experience for me. Sadly, being in the national guard, many of the people in charge never had any type of authority in their life and loved to just boss around the young e4s at drill. One weekend a month and a couple weeks in the summer they could feel like they had some power. These are likely the same people blaming the hold backs for their own and their kids own failures.
 
Crossface86 said:
After serving 6 years in the submarine service, I also spent close to ten years in the Reserves with a similar bad experience, which is why I eventually resigned. The weekend warrior Leadership guys were not the same caliber as the full-timers, unfortunately.

Agreed and AMEN!!!
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thats awesome. I had a new company comander my last year in. I was a head varsity coach. It was in like 96. The new comander was a dork that went to the same HS as me. My previous comander let me make up drills for the weekends that I had tournaments. The new comander comes in, in like january and tells me that if I miss a drill he would send my fellow MPs after me and article 15 me. I didnt re enlist. (I had my 6 yerars in right after my 23rd bday) I was a 22 year old college grad, new teacher, and head coach. Man, I wish I would have went away to school, lived in a dorm, not graduated in 3.5 years and just slowed down. Maybe thats why I feel so strong about my kids and the kids I coached for 20 years not rushing through. My kids being judged and labeled by people not knowing the perspective I have on life is very unfair. My oldest, I wont hold back. It isnt whats best. My middle, I am now. It is whats best. My youngest is TBD.
 
Crossface86 said:
Good luck to your boys. I hope they have very successful wrestling careers, and I sincerely wish that they become even better men.
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as to you and yours! I feel very confident in saying its not up to their wrestling coaches and teachers whether they become great men. That is my job. I have shocked teachers when I have went into conferences and said I dont want to hear that they are great kids. I want to know about their learning. I have seen so many kids just move through the system because they are great kids when holding back would have been the right thing to do. When you say it though, people automatically just say oh its for sports. It eats me up hearing it. No, get to know kids and love em. Put them on the best path to success you can.
 
Per Bucksman Tweeter





Josh Lowe

@JoshMLowe
·
2h


So Spencer Moore (Walton Verona, Ky.) reclassifies to 2021, and will be attending North Carolina in the fall. He is still age eligible for UWW Cadets, and makes the world team at 55 kilos. Just thought people would want to know that.
 
Didn't hold son's back. One entered college at 17 and did just fine. But, his best wrestling was probably still tbd. I understand the holding back. To each his own, it's about winning? I don't hold it against anyone.
 
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wrestlfan said:
If someone is entering college with enough credits to be a sophmore, I truely feel sorry for them. Geez, now you can graduate at 20 and then work for the rest of your life. Congratulations. lol..
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I entered college with enough credits to be a sophomore, and I don't regret it at all and I don't know why someone would "feel sorry" for me - when someone enters college with some of their credits already taken care of, it makes college that much cheaper... Not everyone that takes AP classes or college courses in high school is doing so to "rush" through life. Some people are doing it to save themselves and/or their parents some money. In my case I still graduated in a normal four years because I did a couple stints through my college's cooperative education program (basically working as an engineering intern while being considered a full time student with 0 credits that term - a double bonus because you're getting money/experience while not paying tuition that term), which allowed me to still wrestle four years in college and graduate with the same classmates that I entered with.

For many students that are taking honors classes in high school, AP classes are simply the natural progression by the time they're a senior, and sometimes they are the only classes where they'll get a challenge as a senior and won't be bored out of their mind - some students choose to challenge themselves academically and progress their learning rather than taking easy courses, pretty much like we expect high level wrestlers to challenge themselves and train/compete at a higher level... Just as some families choose to hold their kids back and they have their personal reasons that are no one else's business, some families have reasons for accelerating their kids.
 
UsedToBe103 said:
I entered college with enough credits to be a sophomore, and I don't regret it at all and I don't know why someone would "feel sorry" for me - when someone enters college with some of their credits already taken care of, it makes college that much cheaper... Not everyone that takes AP classes or college courses in high school is doing so to "rush" through life. Some people are doing it to save themselves and/or their parents some money. In my case I still graduated in a normal four years because I did a couple stints through my college's cooperative education program (basically working as an engineering intern while being considered a full time student with 0 credits that term - a double bonus because you're getting money/experience while not paying tuition that term), which allowed me to still wrestle four years in college and graduate with the same classmates that I entered with.

For many students that are taking honors classes in high school, AP classes are simply the natural progression by the time they're a senior, and sometimes they are the only classes where they'll get a challenge as a senior and won't be bored out of their mind - some students choose to challenge themselves academically and progress their learning rather than taking easy courses, pretty much like we expect high level wrestlers to challenge themselves and train/compete at a higher level... Just as some families choose to hold their kids back and they have their personal reasons that are no one else's business, some families have reasons for accelerating their kids.
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Was going to say something similar about the saving money portion of education. In my case my AP credits didn't help me a lick (my college was very particular about their math and English classes) but the experience made taking those college classes easier. I would never advise someone to force a kid into taking college credits in high school but if the kid is ready for the challenge there isn't a reason to stop them. Also getting out of some of the freshmen "weed out" classes opens up space to take classes you enjoy that may not be in your major/minor.
 
Joe Daugherty said:
Per Bucksman Tweeter


Josh Lowe
@JoshMLowe
·
2h


So Spencer Moore (Walton Verona, Ky.) reclassifies to 2021, and will be attending North Carolina in the fall. He is still age eligible for UWW Cadets, and makes the world team at 55 kilos. Just thought people would want to know that.
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So what your saying is he should be held back a couple more years so he can improve his craft and mature more.
 
roughedge said:
So what your saying is he should be held back a couple more years so he can improve his craft and mature more.
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Nope. ? I didn’t say anything. Bucksman did. TBBH I don’t care either way. I just was reading his post and thought how it may fit in this thread nicely. That’s all.
 
wrestlfan said:
I was also asked my age in an interview. I was 17 and allowed to enlist. The dates had to later be changed though. I enlisted on my 17th birthday but you had to leave for basic withone one year of enlilsting and since I was an april enlist it had to be pushed back to june. I left 2 days after graduating hs.
I was a teacher/coach for 20 plus years. It was not very well taken when I would tell my athletes not to take college classes while in hs. Why rush life instead of enjoying it. Why graduate college at 21 so you can enter the workforce at 21 and work the rest of your life. SLOW DOWN. Go to college when you are 20-21. Spend 5 years in college. Why rush it all? How many of those same parents complaining about the age of an athlete are the same ones rushing their kids through their life? If someone is entering college with enough credits to be a sophmore, I truely feel sorry for them. Geez, now you can graduate at 20 and then work for the rest of your life. Congratulations. lol..

One of my idol human beings is rob waller. We have many conversations about all this. He would say, reg, if you are an a hole when you close your doors at home then get all kids out of your house as quick as you can. If you love your kids and live in a nurturing home, why wouldnt you want to keep your kids in that environment while they are still learning how to figure it all out.
Click to expand...

To me, college was a job that I had to pay for, in addition to working part time. The sooner I got out to earn money doing the same stuff and be able to goof off after work instead of studying, the better. In addition, with the cost of college, I wanted to pay for the least amount of time spent there possible. That being said, I took time off after high school, so when I went to college I was pretty focused.
 
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