Why Canton?

EHS 2001 said:
The problem with that argument--even if it's 100% true--is that it's what the OHSAA desires now because it eliminates competition from their desired outcome--which is to keep the games in Canton.

However the OHSAA can and will continue to move the goal posts. Remember that for the better part of two decades (before the current Canton-only championships and before the few years in Columbus) we were routinely told that the OHSAA football state championship requirement was for two venues with artificial turf of sufficient size in close proximity to one another that fans could conveniently travel between the two facilities. (And wouldn't ya know it, the only two that fit that particular set of requirements were the former god awful dump in Canton and PBTS.)

The folks in Canton clearly want to host the football state championships and the new Tom Benson HOF Stadium (at least on the home side) is a great facility. But don't act like it's a fair fight that groups in other parts of the state have surrendered. That type of argument is an insult to everyone's intelligence. The OHSAA has a desired outcome and tailors their requirements to fit the result they want.
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If this is the case ( which it might very well be), why does the topic resurface every single year, sometimes from the same posters? How many times do we have to hear," It should be at Crew Stadium" or " The games should be rotated," or " They should be in Columbus"? or " If you want the games, put in a bid"? Why is football the only sport that has this controversy? It's obvious that THE Ohio State University no longer needs the games to use as a recruitment tool, since they are more concerned with a national presence and will get the state kids without having to bother hosting, so they aren't interested. Canton is, so they get it. If it's rigged by the OHSAA, then there is nothing anyone here can do, unless that poster has a lot of money to build a stadium in Columbus or its environs. It would be nice to have more discussion of the games and players than the inevitable plethora of the same tired complaints and suggestions ( although I have to say that Piqua is a new one). But then, with the season over, people have to have something to complain about. For some, it must be cathartic. If that's the case, and it prevents people from hitting their pets, then have at it, but realize that the cries are fruitless.
 
EHS 2001 said:
The problem with that argument--even if it's 100% true--is that it's what the OHSAA desires now because it eliminates competition from their desired outcome--which is to keep the games in Canton.

However the OHSAA can and will continue to move the goal posts. Remember that for the better part of two decades (before the current Canton-only championships and before the few years in Columbus) we were routinely told that the OHSAA football state championship requirement was for two venues with artificial turf of sufficient size in close proximity to one another that fans could conveniently travel between the two facilities. (And wouldn't ya know it, the only two that fit that particular set of requirements were the former god awful dump in Canton and PBTS.)

The folks in Canton clearly want to host the football state championships and the new Tom Benson HOF Stadium (at least on the home side) is a great facility. But don't act like it's a fair fight that groups in other parts of the state have surrendered. That type of argument is an insult to everyone's intelligence. The OHSAA has a desired outcome and tailors their requirements to fit the result they want.
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This couldn’t be further from the truth. The OHSAA has begged and pleaded behind the scenes and publicly for someone else to bid. If it’s rigged for anyone, it’s rigged for OSU, then they quit bidding. Canton burned a lot of bridges with the OHSAA when they snuck a tax on ticket sales in and tried to pass the entire cost onto the OHSAA. They want it anywhere else, by no one has stepped up.
 
EHS 2001 said:
The problem with that argument--even if it's 100% true--is that it's what the OHSAA desires now because it eliminates competition from their desired outcome--which is to keep the games in Canton.

However the OHSAA can and will continue to move the goal posts. Remember that for the better part of two decades (before the current Canton-only championships and before the few years in Columbus) we were routinely told that the OHSAA football state championship requirement was for two venues with artificial turf of sufficient size in close proximity to one another that fans could conveniently travel between the two facilities. (And wouldn't ya know it, the only two that fit that particular set of requirements were the former god awful dump in Canton and PBTS.)

The folks in Canton clearly want to host the football state championships and the new Tom Benson HOF Stadium (at least on the home side) is a great facility. But don't act like it's a fair fight that groups in other parts of the state have surrendered. That type of argument is an insult to everyone's intelligence. The OHSAA has a desired outcome and tailors their requirements to fit the result they want.
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PBTS and Benson Stadium are far from “dumps” as you put it. You bring up some valid points, however, you lose credibility with idiotic statements like that.
 
AllSports12 said:
And he voted for.....

Canton

Why don't you call him and ask him why?
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I'm NE Ohio local and LOVE the games in Canton (selfishly), but shared that for the SW Ohio folks on here talking about the drive time.

Sometimes we get so caught up talking about "them" and "they" we forget majority of these organizations are made up of "regular" folks who live in our communities. Getting emotions out on a message board is fine, but extremely unlikely to have any impact other than venting. If someone REALLY believes there should be a change - let the people know who make the decisions.
 
thisisinsane said:
PBTS and Benson Stadium are far from “dumps” as you put it. You bring up some valid points, however, you lose credibility with idiotic statements like that.
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Fawcett Stadium is the "former god awful dump in Canton" to which I was referring and I stand by it. Like I said TB HOF Stadium is "a great facility" Never been to PBTS.
 
305NoTomato said:
I don't think people would be too prideful to have a football game in a soccer stadium. Crew stadium is outstanding, though they would have to repurpose the grass? And it would get torn to shreds the way Pittsburgh does.

I would assume a rotation (kind of like how the BCS bowls do it) would make the most sense. You don't need a very large stadium, especially with attendance numbers down the way they are.
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thats not true according to some posters on here
 
Vincent and Regina said:
Think of Winton Woods. Thursday a 7pm game. It is a 4 hour drive. So if everything goes ok and you leave at 3pm and you hit no traffic you are good. Now factor in most people work, the standard work hours are 8-5. So Most people get off work 2 hours after the time you need to leave. OHSAA only gives about a week notice for which game is on Thursday so that might take out vacation time. Some jobs don't even have vacation time so people won't get paid.

Most parents I know have more than one child. So say you have a younger sibling do you pull that kid out of school?

We will say the game takes 3 hours. So the game gets over at 10pm. If they hop in the car at 10:01, and drive straight home they are getting home at 2am. You then get to wake up and be at 8am and go to work again.

If you don't drive home you get to pay for a hotel and use another vacation day.

So let's do the math.
We will say two tanks of gas at 25 bucks for 50 total
A hotel room for 150
Tickets to the game for 4. (I believe tickets were 10 bucks each) 40

So we are already at 240 bucks.

The if my team plays I will be their argument doesn't work. They don't factor in jobs, other children, other responsibilities.


Now put that game in Columbus the hotel goes away. The vacation days go away. The hotel goes away. The gas gets cut in half. Columbus has a lot of great stadiums. If OSU doesn't want it, Crew, Upper Arlington, Gahanna Lincoln are all great stadiums I have been to in Columbus.
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I think that is on the OHSAA. Honestly, they need to look at potential matchups and pick the closest to the site schools to play Thursday night, or play a Sunday game. I agree that the drive for Winton Woods on a Thursday is ridiculous.
 
doubtme said:
I think that is on the OHSAA. Honestly, they need to look at potential matchups and pick the closest to the site schools to play Thursday night, or play a Sunday game. I agree that the drive for Winton Woods on a Thursday is ridiculous.
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Football isn't the only sport that has state tournament play occurring on a Thursday.

For years, teams have been traveling all the way to Canton for swimming, to Akron for Softball, to Dayton for Volleyball..... just for starters.....

Finally, I have yet to hear how anyone explains the success St. Xavier has had while making that "grueling" trip to Canton.

Stop complaining.....
 
Vincent and Regina said:
If those stadiums can hold other playoff games, they can hold the state title game.
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There's more to it than 53.3 x 120.
Vincent and Regina said:
Nothing special about Fawcett. This visiting side there is worse than any visiting side at the schools I mentioned.
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yeah, I know.... snow on the seats and peeing in a trough almost 20 years ago still has the some Elder folks in a tizzy. People have the same type of silly things to say (incorrectly I might add) about your stadium.
Vincent and Regina said:
I also noticed how you did not touch on the cost that I list. I guess you agree I am correct in all those numbers.
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Then don't go. Heck, the Cincy people don't even show up for their local big games anymore.
 
EHS 2001 said:
Or do the smart thing and reduce the number of divisions.
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Agreed.

When they went to 7, Dan Ross proclaimed that "now 32 more teams have tournament opportunities"..... (or something like that)

Now with 16 from each region getting in, it seems that no longer can be used as a motivation. (the disparity in D1 will still remain an issue, however)
 
AllSports12 said:
Football isn't the only sport that has state tournament play occurring on a Thursday.

For years, teams have been traveling all the way to Canton for swimming, to Akron for Softball, to Dayton for Volleyball..... just for starters.....

Finally, I have yet to hear how anyone explains the success St. Xavier has had while making that "grueling" trip to Canton.

Stop complaining.....
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I'm not complaining, but just because they have done it for years doesn't make it right either. I am also specifically referencing Thursday night game with 4 hours of travel.
 
AllSports12 said:
Volleyball has that....

A NEO or NWO team that wins comes back (or stays) for the Saturday Final

Bottom line.... It's an excuse to whine. It's never going to be perfect.
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You know what this is a great point. I have friends and family that have left Cleveland/Youngstown area to be in Dayton for a 1030 game on a Thursday. For a semi final.

We’re talking about a night game for a championship.

how’s that old saying go - if it was easy everybody would do it. ;)
 
EHS 2001 said:
Or do the smart thing and reduce the number of divisions.
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IMHO 7 divisions is a joke. And 2 things that make me say that.
1. it truly waters the playoffs down. Common sense, more divisions spreads the teams out to where we lose matchups that would have happened under a 4 division format.
2. The MAIN reason they add divisions is for extra games = extra money. PERIOD! I'm not a fan of 7 divisions.
 
Raylan_Givens said:
You know what this is a great point. I have friends and family that have left Cleveland/Youngstown area to be in Dayton for a 1030 game on a Thursday. For a semi final.

We’re talking about a night game for a championship.

how’s that old saying go - if it was easy everybody would do it. ;)
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Yep... (I know someone who had a 6pm Thursday Semifinal that didn't start until after 7)

It's never going to be perfect. People just need to deal with it,
 
The school I follow girls basketball team made state last year with almost 4 hour drive to Dayton.....For a game on Thursday afternoon at 2pm. Traveling far for a Thursday state game is hardly reserved for Football.
 
I think doubtme mentioned playing the Thursday game on Sunday. A Sunday 1:00 would have been much better for Winton Woods players, families, and their fans than a Thursday 7:00. If OHSAA is going to have 7 divisions, It does make sense.
 
bkmk1 said:
IMHO 7 divisions is a joke. And 2 things that make me say that.
1. it truly waters the playoffs down. Common sense, more divisions spreads the teams out to where we lose matchups that would have happened under a 4 division format.
2. The MAIN reason they add divisions is for extra games = extra money. PERIOD! I'm not a fan of 7 divisions.
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I'll be curious if the rumors of shifting divisions to add more teams to D1 happens. I don't know how strong the rumors are. However, one would think that they would want to even out the divisions out a bit since practically every d1 school makes it.

Also, at this point, just play 8 games and let em all in again haha
 
doubtme said:
I'll be curious if the rumors of shifting divisions to add more teams to D1 happens. I don't know how strong the rumors are. However, one would think that they would want to even out the divisions out a bit since practically every d1 school makes it.

Also, at this point, just play 8 games and let em all in again haha
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I would rather see 4 or 5 divisions. All divisions just need to change the cutoff numbers points for the divisions. Honestly, I wouldn't care if D1 had 30 teams, and D2 had 75 teams and D3 had 50 teams, etc.. To me evening out each division simply by taking the number of schools there are and dividing by 7 is ridiculous. They need to look at the total number of teams, their male enrollment + CB, then spilt off where a gap begins. Then tweak where necessary. (4 divisions, 5 max).
 
bkmk1 said:
IMHO 7 divisions is a joke. And 2 things that make me say that.
1. it truly waters the playoffs down. Common sense, more divisions spreads the teams out to where we lose matchups that would have happened under a 4 division format.
2. The MAIN reason they add divisions is for extra games = extra money. PERIOD! I'm not a fan of 7 divisions.
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If they make extra money on the extra divisions, it means the people want it. The market is there. If people want to pay money to attend, no reason not to have it.
 
hammer89 said:
If they make extra money on the extra divisions, it means the people want it. The market is there. If people want to pay money to attend, no reason not to have it.
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Your statement of having extra divisions and making extra money means people want it is not necessarily true. We all know attendance is down. That is a fact. So if OHSAA keeps it at 4 divisions, and let's say total attendance for a 4 game state finals is 20000 total attendance. (5000 per game). Now if you have 7 divisions and the same amount come = 7 games x 5000/game = 35000 total attendance. That is 15000 more gate sales. And lets not forget the 2-3 extra divisions also makes more money in weeks 11-14 as well. It's cash cow for sure. So the extra money is only coming because you have more games that are being played because you have created more divisions. It has nothing to do with more people want it. More games = more people. That makes sense and is kind of my point.
 
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