When will the MLB Lockout get settled?

When will the MLB Lockout get settled?

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  • Poll closed .
wolves82

wolves82

Highly Respected Expert
Given that the last MLB work stoppage was 1994, many of the players affected with this stoppage were not even born yet. Given that both sides seem pretty entrenched and pretty unwilling to negotiate for mutual benefit, I am not optimistic. Please indicate your thoughts.
 
 
I would certainly hope over the next few months, that the players and owners go back and really look at their sport, how it's perceived. Baseball has lost a ton of credibility. I feel spring training has become a waste of time. These guys can get ready in a few weeks now. I think they'll go to March, get something figured out and have about 2-3 weeks of spring training, which is plenty. The pitchers will really need to individually get themselves ready. Then again, most don't go more than 4 innings anymore anyway.
 
I know folks in the agents community and they say bulk up for a long stoppage, games will be cancelled and things will get ugly before they get better. Scott Boras is basically running the union now and he wants the rules changed to benefit the big names even more, he is selling the rank and file a trickle down type strategy and is particularly making tanking and service time manipulation big points of contention. ALso wants to drop a salary pool for drafted players. The problem is that is how small and mid size markets work the system to stay competitive and there are many more of those teams than big market spenders.
 
14Red said:
I would certainly hope over the next few months, that the players and owners go back and really look at their sport, how it's perceived. Baseball has lost a ton of credibility. I feel spring training has become a waste of time. These guys can get ready in a few weeks now. I think they'll go to March, get something figured out and have about 2-3 weeks of spring training, which is plenty. The pitchers will really need to individually get themselves ready. Then again, most don't go more than 4 innings anymore anyway.
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Good luck with that. The union has been warning the players for years to save for a long work stoppage. Owners saying they’re broke, players saying show us the books. They‘ll barely speak to each other let alone negotiate in good faith. The meeting up to the Lockout was an entire 7 minutes
 
The players definitely feel that the last two seasons put a crunch on the owners finances and therefore they need a full season and will cave before ST.

The owners are good with canceling spring games though (I think) as attendance is usually pretty weak until Memorial Day. Why not drag it out and cancel 2 months of low revenue and no payroll?

No baseball until June at least.
 
The players won’t cave based on the owners saying COVID hurt them. Sure it hurt...open up the books and show how much and while doing it show how much you make in normal years...and when you look at what clubs have spent in the last few weeks, it’s hard to say you’re hurting.

The manipulating service time needs fixed I’m just not sure how. And of course I like it when it works in the Reds favor but still BS
 
brianwr112 said:
Good luck with that. The union has been warning the players for years to save for a long work stoppage. Owners saying they’re broke, players saying show us the books. They‘ll barely speak to each other let alone negotiate in good faith. The meeting up to the Lockout was an entire 7 minutes
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Agreed. They do not have any meetings scheduled. They won't even talk until the new year at earliest.

I really do not understand all the crazy, expensive long term contracts signed in late November. All the owners did is weaken their own argument about being "broke". Greed on both sides will make this a very long stoppage.

If the players union was a true labor union, their interest would be serving the rank and file member, but they negotiate in such a way that it primarily benefits the mega-rich superstars. A mess...
 
ST will get delayed but the season will start on time.

They will then use the abbreviated ST as a template in years to come as they don't need all that time.

Ultimately I don't care anymore. Would say I watched less than 9 innings this year and I used to be a die-hard.

2020 sorta proved to me that I don't need MLB as an entertainment outlet.

Billionaire s fighting with hundred-millionaires.....BFD.
 
brianwr112 said:
Good luck with that. The union has been warning the players for years to save for a long work stoppage. Owners saying they’re broke, players saying show us the books. They‘ll barely speak to each other let alone negotiate in good faith. The meeting up to the Lockout was an entire 7 minutes
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You sound like you've followed this for years!! ?
 
brianwr112 said:
The players won’t cave based on the owners saying COVID hurt them. Sure it hurt...open up the books and show how much and while doing it show how much you make in normal years...and when you look at what clubs have spent in the last few weeks, it’s hard to say you’re hurting.

The manipulating service time needs fixed I’m just not sure how. And of course I like it when it works in the Reds favor but still BS
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I do not understand the sentiment of "open up the books". Wherever you work, are you shared the details of how the company is doing financially? Unless you're in a public school system or some other public entity, likely not. Baseball players are just that, baseball players. Yes, there are a handful of guys on each team who are the "stars" but other than that, it's likely a revolving door of average players who rotate out every few years. Guys that go into baseball professionally are not guaranteed anything, you're career could be a jackpot if you stay healthy and make it big, or you can toil in the minors making chump change for years until someone takes your job. That's life.
 
14Red said:
I do not understand the sentiment of "open up the books". Wherever you work, are you shared the details of how the company is doing financially? Unless you're in a public school system or some other public entity, likely not. Baseball players are just that, baseball players. Yes, there are a handful of guys on each team who are the "stars" but other than that, it's likely a revolving door of average players who rotate out every few years. Guys that go into baseball professionally are not guaranteed anything, you're career could be a jackpot if you stay healthy and make it big, or you can toil in the minors making chump change for years until someone takes your job. That's life.
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Ummm. Every publicly traded company has published financial reports.

I realize that most sports franchises are privately held, and they do not have to open their books for anyone. But sometimes smart business people do. I am a minority owner in a small software business; we have fewer than 50 employees. Sometimes we have good years and sometimes bad. Since the pandemic, not so good. When we had to tell our employees that there would not be year-end raises after 2020, we showed them our audited financial statements in a meeting, to explain why. Most of our people like their job, and understood that the company was struggling, and we all pull together as a team to try to make 2021 better.

If the owners are truly losing money like they claim, a similar move would build trust with the players. Refusing to do it makes everyone suspicious...
 
wolves82 said:
Ummm. Every publicly traded company has published financial reports.

I realize that most sports franchises are privately held, and they do not have to open their books for anyone. But sometimes smart business people do. I am a minority owner in a small software business; we have fewer than 50 employees. Sometimes we have good years and sometimes bad. Since the pandemic, not so good. When we had to tell our employees that there would not be year-end raises after 2020, we showed them our audited financial statements in a meeting, to explain why. Most of our people like their job, and understood that the company was struggling, and we all pull together as a team to try to make 2021 better.

If the owners are truly losing money like they claim, a similar move would build trust with the players. Refusing to do it makes everyone suspicious...
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That's why the Dolans are worth $4bn, yet still cry poor year after year.

It's privately held, so you will never know how much they stuff in their pockets each year to the detriment of the roster.
 
OldSoulon said:
That's why the Dolans are worth $4bn, yet still cry poor year after year.

It's privately held, so you will never know how much they stuff in their pockets each year to the detriment of the roster.
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Many smart businessmen separate their company wealth from their personal wealth.

in pro sports, just because an owner is wealthy from something outside of baseball does not mean he should spend a lot of his personal $$ on his 'side gig'. Run the ballclub on its own monetary merit
 
I've said for years that if NOBODY attended an NBA, NFL, or MLB game, the owners still make a ton of money, and can pay outrageous salaries to their players.

Attendance and concessions are just the icing on the cake.

Sure enough, the COVID year proved that.
 
thavoice said:
Many smart businessmen separate their company wealth from their personal wealth.

in pro sports, just because an owner is wealthy from something outside of baseball does not mean he should spend a lot of his personal $$ on his 'side gig'. Run the ballclub on its own monetary merit
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That’s pretty much their business. Not a whole lot else.

They are the fifth richest ownership in MLB, yet they cry poor year after year.
 
OldSoulon said:
That’s pretty much their business. Not a whole lot else.

They are the fifth richest ownership in MLB, yet they cry poor year after year.
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I agree with you that the Indians are run like cheapskates.

But you are wrong about the Dolans. They have family money - they founded some cable TV company in the early days of cable that became Cablevision and HBO. Sold Cablevision for over 17 Billion a few years ago. They also own controlling shares of Madison Square Garden, BBC America and AMC Networks. I'm sure to the Dolans the Indians are just another business that they are running, and trying to run a profit with it.

Thus we have no idea how much money they make from the Indians. Books remain closed. We only know the TV revenue and player salaries. Lots of other info is unknown.
 
wolves82 said:
I agree with you that the Indians are run like cheapskates.

But you are wrong about the Dolans. They have family money - they founded some cable TV company in the early days of cable that became Cablevision and HBO. Sold Cablevision for over 17 Billion a few years ago. They also own controlling shares of Madison Square Garden, BBC America and AMC Networks. I'm sure to the Dolans the Indians are just another business that they are running, and trying to run a profit with it.

Thus we have no idea how much money they make from the Indians. Books remain closed. We only know the TV revenue and player salaries. Lots of other info is unknown.
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The main Dolan, Charles, got the lion's share of that Cablevision money. Charles is not a part of the Indians ownership team.

Then Larry used a lot of it to buy the Indians.

Larry and Paul together have a net worth of about $4bn.

Look, it's their money, obviously. Good for them.

They are cheapskate owners, though, and the fans deserve better.
 
wolves82 said:
I agree with you that the Indians are run like cheapskates.

But you are wrong about the Dolans. They have family money - they founded some cable TV company in the early days of cable that became Cablevision and HBO. Sold Cablevision for over 17 Billion a few years ago. They also own controlling shares of Madison Square Garden, BBC America and AMC Networks. I'm sure to the Dolans the Indians are just another business that they are running, and trying to run a profit with it.

Thus we have no idea how much money they make from the Indians. Books remain closed. We only know the TV revenue and player salaries. Lots of other info is unknown.
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That says a lot. Thanks.

Rich peeps can either use a lot of their own $$ on a yearly basis, or they can try to have the team run on its own merits and still try to make a profit after ownership gets paid.

We see it as a sport, but for most owners it is business. REds fans went/go through the same when LInder bought the REds. Hell, I dont know if he still owns it, but many fans wanted him to use much of his own worth to spend like a drunken sailor.


I would like to see the no BS open ledger in professional sports teams without all the cooking of the books. Not as a sports fan, but just as a basic business venture. Is it the money making venture we think on a yearly basis or not? Remember, the ownership has the right to pay themselves an pocket a good salary and not just operate on a break even.

They take in a lot of $$, but also a lot of it goes out the door as well. BY most reports the true return on investment is not the year to year balance sheet, but when you sell the team.
 
According to Forbes, the Reds are worth 1.1 billion, which is four times what the current ownership group bought it for 16 years ago.
 
If you really want to know why MLB is in a lock out look at the two teams that were sold in 2020. The Mets were sold for $2.45 Billion, the Royals were sold for $1 Billion. I can assure you the Jets and Chiefs do not have the same spread if these two NFL teams were to be put up for sale.
 
GCPRO said:
According to Forbes, the Reds are worth 1.1 billion, which is four times what the current ownership group bought it for 16 years ago.
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Bingo. This is the main point. If you acquire a sports franchise for $XX, it will almost certainly be worth several multiples of $XX in a decade or two. Best investment you can find.

If you are running the sports franchise to try to make a net profit every year, you are doing it wrong. Penny-wise but pound foolish. Nothing increases overall franchise value more than winning. Win a lot, build brand awareness, pack stadiums, win championships, get more sponsorships, sell more merchandise, that $XX investment might become 10 times $XX. Squeezing payroll to turn a profit hurts your investment.

Dolan, Castellini, and others are undoubtedly very smart business owners, they know how to turn a profit annually. But taking some net losses by investing in championship caliber players and coaches will help your long-term investment more.

End rant.
 
wolves82 said:
Bingo. This is the main point. If you acquire a sports franchise for $XX, it will almost certainly be worth several multiples of $XX in a decade or two. Best investment you can find.

If you are running the sports franchise to try to make a net profit every year, you are doing it wrong. Penny-wise but pound foolish. Nothing increases overall franchise value more than winning. Win a lot, build brand awareness, pack stadiums, win championships, get more sponsorships, sell more merchandise, that $XX investment might become 10 times $XX. Squeezing payroll to turn a profit hurts your investment.

Dolan, Castellini, and others are undoubtedly very smart business owners, they know how to turn a profit annually. But taking some net losses by investing in championship caliber players and coaches will help your long-term investment more.

End rant.
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Precisely my point! Better said than I could have.
 
wolves82 said:
Bingo. This is the main point. If you acquire a sports franchise for $XX, it will almost certainly be worth several multiples of $XX in a decade or two. Best investment you can find.

If you are running the sports franchise to try to make a net profit every year, you are doing it wrong. Penny-wise but pound foolish. Nothing increases overall franchise value more than winning. Win a lot, build brand awareness, pack stadiums, win championships, get more sponsorships, sell more merchandise, that $XX investment might become 10 times $XX. Squeezing payroll to turn a profit hurts your investment.

Dolan, Castellini, and others are undoubtedly very smart business owners, they know how to turn a profit annually. But taking some net losses by investing in championship caliber players and coaches will help your long-term investment more.

End rant.
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You are correct. A 12 year old could make big money with a major sports franchise.
 
wolves82 said:
Bingo. This is the main point. If you acquire a sports franchise for $XX, it will almost certainly be worth several multiples of $XX in a decade or two. Best investment you can find.

If you are running the sports franchise to try to make a net profit every year, you are doing it wrong. Penny-wise but pound foolish. Nothing increases overall franchise value more than winning. Win a lot, build brand awareness, pack stadiums, win championships, get more sponsorships, sell more merchandise, that $XX investment might become 10 times $XX. Squeezing payroll to turn a profit hurts your investment.

Dolan, Castellini, and others are undoubtedly very smart business owners, they know how to turn a profit annually. But taking some net losses by investing in championship caliber players and coaches will help your long-term investment more.

End rant.
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But they invested in Eugenia ??
 
wolves82 said:
Well, it took the owners (MLB) 6 weeks after the lockout started to finally submit a financial proposal to the MLBPA, and it sounds like it did not go over well. Hopefully the MLBPA can get their counter-proposal done more quickly.

www.cbssports.com

MLB lockout: Owners make proposal six weeks after starting work stoppage, players reportedly unimpressed

MLB submitted its first core economics proposal of the lockout on Thursday
www.cbssports.com www.cbssports.com
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Neither side is willing to give much in this stupid stare down.

They have so much animosity towards each other that they aren't even willing to try and be reasonable.

Such a shame.
 
Indiandad said:
Neither side is willing to give much in this stupid stare down.

They have so much animosity towards each other that they aren't even willing to try and be reasonable.

Such a shame.
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Agreed.

You would think that two reasonable parties could find an equitable way to agree to share such a massive amount of money. But they are letting greed, distrust of the other side, and history get in the way.

You know what they deserve? Arbitration. Give this labor agreement to a neutral 3rd party arbitrator, they both get a week to present their case, and then they have to accept what the arbitrator decides.
 
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