What is the status of a 4th Division for CC/Track?

Mr. Slippery

Well-known member
State Track meet is back at OSU unless Covid restrictions make it not be there again. (It was not money as the reason for not being there.)
We know money was not the reason the meet was held elsewhere in 2021. However, I've heard from people who are involved in the OATCCC that the state meet location was still up in the air for this spring. One of them indicated that OSU was asking for significantly more money than before. Have you been told to transport all of your timing equipment to Jesse Owens Memorial Stadium for the 1st weekend of June?
 

Finishtiming

Active member
As long as OSU doesn't have to shut down again with the new variant and restrict. With the way games are being cancelled right now I am just hoping we will have hs indoor meets. Colleges are already looking at making them smaller or not having them because of push back from administration.
 

grange45

Active member
Update. 4 divisions is hopefully back on the table. The ohsaa person that took Gabor’s job (the one that said 4 divisions for track is dead at the xc clinic) quit last month. After talking to many oatccc reps they say they are optimistic. A new person is being hired today and hopefully is more rational. If not I think coaches need to start emailing the ohsaa board that make the final decision to push for the change.
 

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
As long as OSU doesn't have to shut down again with the new variant and restrict. With the way games are being cancelled right now I am just hoping we will have hs indoor meets. Colleges are already looking at making them smaller or not having them because of push back from administration.
College of Mt. St. Joseph on the Ohio (Delhi) had an indoor meet yesterday timed by ghgtiming. They called it meet #1, so they must bee holding a series of meets there.
 
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I'm ignorant on the idea of 4 divisions. What are the benefits of going to 4 divisions. Obviously more people would have the opportunity to run at state however, wouldnt that greatly decrease the competition they are running against?
 

Newton's Third

Active member
I'm ignorant on the idea of 4 divisions. What are the benefits of going to 4 divisions. Obviously more people would have the opportunity to run at state however, wouldnt that greatly decrease the competition they are running against?

There are others that can answer your question much better but I will provide one angle. Track and Field is a sport that rewards quality depth due to so many different disciplines like sprints, distance, hurdles, throws, jumps, and pole vault. The larger the number of potential quality athletes to fill those roles the better the team will be. With only three divisions, track has schools with 289 students in grades 10-12 attempting to compete against schools with 1350 students. This does not take into account coaching staff sizes, facilities, and other aspects that tend to push out the smaller division 1 schools from a team standpoint. A fourth division, if approached with this in mind could give those schools an opportunity to compete against schools twice as large instead of almost 4 1/2 times larger.
 

ENA2

Active member
Also, it would put track on par with other sports. For instance, the other traditional spring sports, (baseball/softball) have 4 divisions with less total numbers participating and less schools offering the sport. BTW. Girls track and field is #1 in total participants for girls in any sport and boys track & field is #3 for boys according to most recent participation numbers.
 

Finishtiming

Active member
I understand the 4th division conversation but I had a talk with previous person at OHSAA and OATCCC presented all the good of a 4th division but did not present anything about what could be bad about it. You have to present both sides and have something to help resolve the issues we are going to have with adding another division. These are just some things I have thought of that we need to help present a resolution for to help push this through.
1) officials to handle more districts. (we have lost 60-70 officials this year alone.) Yes we do not need as many as we have a lot of times but we do need more than we have for adding more meets. You cant have coaches be exchange zone judges at a district meet.
2) do we combine a couple districts to help with this by running 2 at same time at same site. Run d1-d2 at same site so that if a school is split between 2 divisions the coaches can be there for both. Then run the meet as D1 100h, d2 100h, d1 110h, d2 110h, d1 100m, d2 100m, etc. move a distance event (800m for example) to prelim day
3) do we have enough timing companies to handle all the extra meets with all the extra equipment needed for this level of competition. Yes there are some schools that have their own system and could run them but there are also schools that have a system and have no clue.
4) how do you split the divisions up? If splitting by the standard OHSAA policy of 25%-25%-25%-25% with the last division be some very small teams that may not even have enough athletes to fill most events and those meets be very small.
5) do you possibly just split division 1 up into 2 different ones.
6) Since you are adding another division we need to do away with the extra qualifiers as you may have to go to another state site and only have 8 lanes as we did in 2021.
7) state meet schedule move to 3 days to allow it to be an enjoyable day for all involved. extra cost for facility
8) I'm sure there is more

I didn't post this for everyone to argue with me but for people to try to find the good and bad and help resolve this before it gets done and then we find all these problems and have no resolution to them.
 

ENA2

Active member
I understand the 4th division conversation but I had a talk with previous person at OHSAA and OATCCC presented all the good of a 4th division but did not present anything about what could be bad about it. You have to present both sides and have something to help resolve the issues we are going to have with adding another division. These are just some things I have thought of that we need to help present a resolution for to help push this through.
1) officials to handle more districts. (we have lost 60-70 officials this year alone.) Yes we do not need as many as we have a lot of times but we do need more than we have for adding more meets. You cant have coaches be exchange zone judges at a district meet.
2) do we combine a couple districts to help with this by running 2 at same time at same site. Run d1-d2 at same site so that if a school is split between 2 divisions the coaches can be there for both. Then run the meet as D1 100h, d2 100h, d1 110h, d2 110h, d1 100m, d2 100m, etc. move a distance event (800m for example) to prelim day
3) do we have enough timing companies to handle all the extra meets with all the extra equipment needed for this level of competition. Yes there are some schools that have their own system and could run them but there are also schools that have a system and have no clue.
4) how do you split the divisions up? If splitting by the standard OHSAA policy of 25%-25%-25%-25% with the last division be some very small teams that may not even have enough athletes to fill most events and those meets be very small.
5) do you possibly just split division 1 up into 2 different ones.
6) Since you are adding another division we need to do away with the extra qualifiers as you may have to go to another state site and only have 8 lanes as we did in 2021.
7) state meet schedule move to 3 days to allow it to be an enjoyable day for all involved. extra cost for facility
8) I'm sure there is more

I didn't post this for everyone to argue with me but for people to try to find the good and bad and help resolve this before it gets done and then we find all these problems and have no resolution to them.
Some good points… most have been addressed by the oatccc. #1 and 2: yes, combined two divisions when/where you can. It has been done before. Orville districts in 1999,2000. D2 and D3 at the same site at the same time. Was a great meet. Only lull was 4 3200s in a row, bit did not need to move any events. Field events were both days and the officials worked both meets. This would also help #3 as timing companies may be “thin” and more people need training, but many are willing and there’s $to be made. #4… should not be a big problem filling events if each district board would place teams in district sites better. Right now, some (d3 and others) districts have on 12-14 schools and some have 20-25+). May have to travel some within a district, but even in d4 that should not be a problem. #5 NOTE: if they just split D1, or only the biggest 100 school are in D1, district would be a problem for this reason… and district may not be needed with only 25 schools in each regional. #6. 4 divisions work fine for a 2-day meet at Jesse Owens…. Just start an hour earlier (8:30 am) and end an hour later each day (8:00 pm) and have 30-40 minutes between sessions… instead of 50-60 minutes. With the same contingency plan for inclement weather as they do now. The lights work really well except at the throws and portable lights are available for there. I have seen the time schedule for 4 divisions for two days. There is also a schedule that has D3-4 going at the same time at State (like at districts) then D1-D2. It looks good, but personally, I would like 3 days…, which Is also doable because they did 3 days at welcome stadium in 1999. #8. Yes, there will be an is other things to consider, but as long as baseball/softball, basketball, volleyball etc has 4 divisions and we have more kids participating than those sports and in many cases more schools, then track is treated as “less”. IMO.
 
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psycho_dad

Well-known member
I understand the 4th division conversation but I had a talk with previous person at OHSAA and OATCCC presented all the good of a 4th division but did not present anything about what could be bad about it. You have to present both sides and have something to help resolve the issues we are going to have with adding another division. These are just some things I have thought of that we need to help present a resolution for to help push this through.
1) officials to handle more districts. (we have lost 60-70 officials this year alone.) Yes we do not need as many as we have a lot of times but we do need more than we have for adding more meets. You cant have coaches be exchange zone judges at a district meet.
2) do we combine a couple districts to help with this by running 2 at same time at same site. Run d1-d2 at same site so that if a school is split between 2 divisions the coaches can be there for both. Then run the meet as D1 100h, d2 100h, d1 110h, d2 110h, d1 100m, d2 100m, etc. move a distance event (800m for example) to prelim day
3) do we have enough timing companies to handle all the extra meets with all the extra equipment needed for this level of competition. Yes there are some schools that have their own system and could run them but there are also schools that have a system and have no clue.
4) how do you split the divisions up? If splitting by the standard OHSAA policy of 25%-25%-25%-25% with the last division be some very small teams that may not even have enough athletes to fill most events and those meets be very small.
5) do you possibly just split division 1 up into 2 different ones.
6) Since you are adding another division we need to do away with the extra qualifiers as you may have to go to another state site and only have 8 lanes as we did in 2021.
7) state meet schedule move to 3 days to allow it to be an enjoyable day for all involved. extra cost for facility
8) I'm sure there is more

I didn't post this for everyone to argue with me but for people to try to find the good and bad and help resolve this before it gets done and then we find all these problems and have no resolution to them.
1) I would if needed.
2) Yes
3) Yes
4) No
5) Yes
6) Not necessarily
7) 2 or 3 Should not be a concern.
8) Other states can handle more than 3 divisions. I don't care what the concerns are, it can be done. You put people in charge that truly love the sport of Track & Field, and it would happen with ease. You don't look for reasons not to do it, you just tell those in charge of the meet to make it happen and it happens. (I'm not fanatical that they even add a 4th division, but I'm not against it. I think D1 needs split in half and D3 and D2 are good how they are.)

If it is the right thing to do and the number of kids participating triggers it to happen, then it needs to happen. No excuses and reasons not to do it. It just needs done. We have had years to figure out the logistics of it. ENA and others could whip out the time schedule in a few hours or less. They were able to pull off 3 state meets at 3 locations last year. It did not take years of debate to make it happen.
 

Altor

Well-known member
If you mean track this spring, there is 0 chance of a 4th division. District and Regional sites and dates have been set. They are going back to Jesse O for state with a 3 division schedule over 2 days.
 
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