hardhead_29
Active member
I can’t believe that grown men actually think they have an opinion that matters on this topic that has nothing to do with them. Who cares if the let the top 4 or the top 100 in.
We needed expanded playoffs for Covid with cancellations. Reduce it now.
- Thread starter neofootball10
- Start date
justruntheball
Active member
When #13 Cardinal Mooney (4-6) beats #4 Edison (10-0) this weekend, I'm gonna come back here and laugh at this thread. And that's nothing against Edison, I know very little about them. The only thing I know is that their schedules are very very different.
A better day for all
Well-known member
Do you really think the state is going to say, well, let's reduce the playoffs in half and cut down our profit margin by 50 percent? There's no going back now, plus I like the fact that everyone who is good gets their postseason chance now. There won't be any more 10-0 or 9-1 teams that don't make the playoffs. I will trade some sub-500 teams getting in the playoffs for a 7-3 or 8-2 team in a tough region that in the prior format may not have made it.
bkmk1
Well-known member
For me 8 is the perfect number. 16 is too many. I really do not like 12 because I am not in favor of byes. And I would bet more importantly, the kids and coaches do NOT want a bye week. If any team/coach wants or likes a bye, have their A.D. schedule a bye week during their regular season. Some may argue that a bye week is good for teams to get healthy. That argument has never held water to me. The kids want to play and not have byes. But I will say that at 16, I am going to a game this Friday, so I can't be too upset over 16.
neofootball10
Active member
1-9 is worse than sub par. I did not say OHSAA will ever go back. I am just saying 16 is too many if 3-7 and 1-9 teams are getting into the playoffs because it makes regular season meaningless.
justruntheball
Active member
Yeah we should continue to allow teams to play safe schedules so they can win 8 games and go to the playoffs and beat their chest as a playoff team that gets bounced round 1. That's much better. Mooney for losing a 1 score game to their rival who happens to be a top ten team in division 3. Shoulda played an easier team instead to get a win so they could get a top 8 seed. It's laughable how much you guys want teams to take easy regular season schedules to manipulate the system and make these 8 team playoffs. You think you're on the "tough" side, but you're not.
neofootball10
Active member
The question is why should everyone make the playoffs? As far as the mooney example. They have a hard time scheduling because they beat everyone for so many years and now they are not as good as they used to be. They made the playoffs when it was 8 with some average 6-4 records before which shows they old system worked for the most part. I wish they had districts so you play similar size schools and decide on the field. much better than harbin sysem.
justruntheball
Active member
Yeah but they'd miss this year while teams like Edison, again I mean no offense to them, get in despite being a clearly inferior team to Mooney. 14-7 loss to ursuline is more impressive than most D5 victories in my opinion. Its an flawed system. 16 teams allows teams to play tough schedules. 8 teams rewards the teams that craft easy schedules against bad teams that play even worse teams.
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Because “making the playoffs” isn’t an accomplishment. It isn’t something to be proud of. Winning a title is. That “participation trophy” mentality you have that making the playoffs was meaningful is showing. Now more people have a participation trophy so it devalues everyone else’s and you’re upset. Eyes on the prize! 4 teams in the playoffs, all of them, who cares? Win it all, that’s the goal.
justruntheball
Active member
Exactly. Making the playoffs should never matter. The real participation award people are showing their true colors. Our here calling everyone else soft. It's hilariously delusional to pretend that being a top 32 team in your division mattered.
neofootball10
Active member
So being top 64 is meaningful. Lets just stop calling the regular season real games and call them all scrimmages. We can have 4 team jamborees every week and be like a club volleyball team. Let everyone in and make sure they all get blue ribbons like the winning pig at the fair. Your right.....having real games and only letting in somewhat deserving teams is much more participatory than putting a 1-9 team in the playoffs. my bad.
justruntheball
Active member
Nope! It doesn't. Making the playoffs does not matter. Hasn't mattered since it was 4 teams. I've said it multiple times in this thread. I personally don't think it matters until its top 16 or 8 teams in the division. Regional semi finals or regional finals. Regular season matters for seeding, 16 teams (for all but D1) will rarely have teams below 4-6, and allows good teams to beef up schedule and not risk missing playoffs. This way you can't be rewarded for having an AD that schedule bad teams that beat teams. 8 teams rewards good schedules.
Every other sport has everyone make the playoffs. Football is the only sport where not everyone has made the playoffs.
I just like the idea of everyone having a shot, If you lose round 1 or round 2, then play a week 10 against someone else who lost.
If everyone made it and you started week 8, Week 10 would the equivalent of today's week 12 (top 8).
Making the playoffs should not be the accomplishment, winning should be.
Excellent,
neofootball10
Active member
So it meant something to make the playoffs when it was 4 teams only. then go back to that. If making the playoffs meant something at 2 or 1 is fine with me. But the correct number is not 16 out of 17 teams for gods sake. The goal of the playoff system was to find best teams in the state. When it was one per region or 2 , many 10-0 teams and 9-1 teams did not make the playoffs which meant that the best team may not have even made the playoffs. When it went to 8. that scenario no longer mattered but you at least had to have a descent season to make it. 7-3 seems to be the minimum for most regions back then. There is no reason for a 4-6 team or worse to ever be in a state tournament even if they are really good and played tough teams.
Lol....that's never going to happen. Teams in 9 or 10 team leagues would never go for that. Too much risk losing a big time league game due to having a shortened regular season just so the the bottom 6 or 7 teams get to lose their first playoff game.
justruntheball
Active member
16 teams is the only way to guarantee we find the best team in the state without forcing teams to take safe regular seasons. Winton Woods was a 7 seed last year and they won D2. So 4 teams doesn't work. Lake Catholic was a 14 seed when they went to the big game in 2020. I can't say it enough; 8 teams puts too much emphasis on playing the right regular season. 16 teams is going to give the fans some incredible regular season show downs that we would have never seen if teams were worried about missing. Just go check the numbers after this weekend on how many teams that wouldn't have been top 8 are moving on to the top 8 in the region.
The only division where your argument holds any weight is D1. If they move that back to 8, I'd have no complaints. But for every other division with twice as many teams per region, 16 teams makes the most sense. You could even say it should just be half the region. Take region 9. 27 teams. Half of that is 13.5. 13.5 is closer to 16 than it is to 8, so16 make it.
The only division where your argument holds any weight is D1. If they move that back to 8, I'd have no complaints. But for every other division with twice as many teams per region, 16 teams makes the most sense. You could even say it should just be half the region. Take region 9. 27 teams. Half of that is 13.5. 13.5 is closer to 16 than it is to 8, so16 make it.
97Raider
Active member
Does Benedictine deserve to be in?
justruntheball
Active member
Absolutely not. I believe the point system has flaws, but zero wins is zero wins. You’re obviously taking my example to the extreme as a joke but let’s look at region nine. 29 teams and the 16 seed is 6-4. Aurora at 7-3 would miss. Vasj, who added badin and Ursuline this year and is 8-2, and would miss. Vasj could have taken much easier opponents, gone 10-0, and made the top 8. But they chose to go at some top dogs. Again, 0-10 is 0-10, but some quality, deserving teams would miss top 8 while some teams that chose easier schedules would make it. Regular season matchups would all be about scheduling wins instead of playing good teams to test yourself. 16 teams gives both routes a spot. Losing round one in playoffs means your route was a mistake.
97Raider
Active member
Appreciate the well thought out response. Region 9 is somewhat of an outlier with an excellent #1 and deep throughout. I think Alliance may upset as well as Kenston (12 and 13 I think without looking it up). I’m from the Youngstown area and would pull for Chaney and my school played US as well so trying to be unbiased
Kids 18 and younger shouldn’t play 16 games in one year and more so the smaller divisions with the lack of depth and overall numbers. People will report a big upset, but you won’t hear about major injuries in week 1 of the playoffs It’s more than college teams play and the OHSAA is more greedy than the NCAA. And that’s saying something.
The system is what it is right now and you have to work it for 5 years to allow AD’s to adjust schedules and develop a plan/path. Schools can’t hang their hat on a loss to St Ed’s and be rewarded for it. Any playoff system that rewards losses or factors margin of loss or victory is very flawed. I think the current system is sophisticated, not perfect, but is more than adequate for the schools; albeit they should have 15 games at most.
I believe Mooney is one of the top 5 teams in region 17 and makes it more interesting. I’m glad they are in. No one forced them into a schedule and that’s the same for Edison. That argument for Mooney holds a ton of water because they are matched up with Edison. Had they got matched with Perry or Garaway, not so much.
At the end of the day, these discussions all get played out on the field, and I’m excited to see it. Working within the rules of the current system. I also think that league/conference championships are too important to shrink the regular season and 16 games is too many. My take is back it down to 8 teams and potentially rework the L2 point system.
justruntheball
Active member
Chaney played Ursuline as well as anyone. Both are legit region 9 and state championship contenders along with the toppers and canfield. It really is a great example of a region that has more than 8 good teams so I got lucky that you chose to pick on Benny haha
In terms of 16 games, while I do agree its a money grab, I sincerely don't believe the 1 extra game is that much of a difference. 15 is a lot too if 16 is a lot. It makes the season 6% longer for 14 total teams. The only 14-18 year olds getting the extra game are the ones in the state championship, and i don't think they mind. Further, teams are more than welcome to take bye weeks. You don't need 10 regular season games to be eligible for playoffs and the divisor in the points will compensate you for it.
I never meant to imply that schools should hang their hats on losses, but I don't think hanging your hat on a victory over a clearly inferior opponent is great either. I like that there are teams willing to sack a few easy wins for regular season tests. The losses don't earn you points, but with 16 teams, you can make up for it and still get a shot.
No disagreements on the next paragraph, mooney is legit.
I think 8 teams per region in D1 makes sense, but after that, I do think 16 is the only way to go forward unless the L2 system is reworked. Then the argument could change. I don't really fear Chardon missing the top 8 any time soon, but if the boys keep winning and regular season games are harder to schedule, I'd hate to see a talented squad miss the playoffs because only mentor and the like would play them. A lot of schools only schedule 2 years out (home/home) so that day could be upon us very soon.
How would you go about that?
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Purplesage
Active member
7 TRUTHS
1. WOULDA, SHOULDA,COULDA, Where ever the line is drawn (8-16) someone will bitch about getting left out!
2. NUMBERS DON'T LIE: Look at the scores on Sunday 6 of the 8 games per region will be blowouts!
3. IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN: It's for the MONEY!
4. HURT ME GOOD: Statistics show the more you play the higher the chance of injury(no matter the seed)!!
5. GOIN' DOWN EASY: Running clock eases the pain somewhat!!
6. FRIENDS & FAMILY PLAN : Attending a first round game is mandatory for friends and family not for General hard core HS football fans(saving money for real matchups)!!!
7. SEND LAWYERS,GUNS & MONEY: This post's theme song! "The chit has hit the fan"
1. WOULDA, SHOULDA,COULDA, Where ever the line is drawn (8-16) someone will bitch about getting left out!
2. NUMBERS DON'T LIE: Look at the scores on Sunday 6 of the 8 games per region will be blowouts!
3. IT'S FOR THE CHILDREN: It's for the MONEY!
4. HURT ME GOOD: Statistics show the more you play the higher the chance of injury(no matter the seed)!!
5. GOIN' DOWN EASY: Running clock eases the pain somewhat!!
6. FRIENDS & FAMILY PLAN : Attending a first round game is mandatory for friends and family not for General hard core HS football fans(saving money for real matchups)!!!
7. SEND LAWYERS,GUNS & MONEY: This post's theme song! "The chit has hit the fan"
97Raider
Active member
Widen the gap from a half point between divisions to maybe .75 or a full point.