Washington Post piece about Ohio high school football

 
look no further than Dayton's City Government for the decline of the City which has been going on for years. Same as in most of Ohio's big cities.
 
No doubt participation in football has decreased but I do not believe it is as bad as the 14% the article states.

I believe these 3 factors need to be taken into account:
* Population of school age children is stagnant to slightly declining:
In 2010 Ohio total population was 11,536,504 - about 1.3 mil school age children (k-12)
In 2020 Ohio total population was 11,799,448 - about 1.2 mil school age children (k-12)

* Far more sports are offered now, LaCross has exploded in the suburban schools

* Specialization has only become more prevalent

Are kids ‘softer’ or do not like to be physically & mentally challenged as much as they use too - sure, that is part of it. Parents are more difficult as well, don't know if/how this affects the participation numbers or not. If a school/program is not successful, kids are not as incline to participate, I would think that is a common theme across years. Concussions or the concern of concussions has to play a factor in the suburban schools. As for the urban schools; a wide range of factors could be a part of the decline in participation.

Still very food football played in Ohio.
 
Football is no longer the "only" sport to play in the fall, as it was back in the day. Combine the competing activities( including surfing the internet and social media) with the whole concussion findings and you have parents finding other sports ( soccer, cross country) to have junior do. Plus, sports have gone to year-round activities with not as many participating in multiples, but specializing in one all year, With these factors combined, participation has gone down.


rogerpielkejr.substack.com

Super Bowl Excitement Can't Hide Football's Continuing Decline

SERIES: The Future of Football, Part 3
rogerpielkejr.substack.com rogerpielkejr.substack.com
 
Interesting article.

I've said it for years, the number of very good football players hasn't decreased across the city, they have just consolidated to a small number of schools where their opportunity as a football player will be magnified (St Eds is the perfect example). The cream of the crop are landing at 8-10 schools state-wide, and leaving many of the public schools with not enough talent to push the kids on the edge to make the commitment anymore.

More voucher funding will only make this worse for the city public schools. A death nail to a school like Colerain. A few of the well-funded and suburban public schools (e.g. Lakota West) will be fine, but are really now competing with the Catholic privates.

It will be interesting to see how a school like Elder does with the expanded voucher program, as they have never been a hot-spot for outside talent. It's already having an impact on their sports programs, and a situation that could lead them to D2 in the next 5-10 years, especially as the west-side parochial schools begin consolidating. The athletes from these shuttered schools aren't simply going to go to the closest parochial school in their parish family - they will be open to any and all possibilities.
 
Wrestling245 said:
I mean look no further than the recruiting classes Ohio has in 24,25 and 26. Still lots of talent here
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Still PLENTY of talent in Ohio.

However, if you're good at football, you're looking at the top tier programs in your region. Cleveland has a couple, Columbus has a couple, and Cincinnati has several. But make no mistake, the best players are consolidating to those programs for sure.

The days of simply going to your neighborhood school are over if you're looking to play a sport in college. Signing day is coming up on the 20th - pay attention to who has a bunch and who doesn't. It's pretty simple to see what's going on.

It's not much different than the haves and have nots in college football. There's 6-8 that can compete every year (e.g. Eds, X, Moe, PC, Springfield, etc), there's a few like Boise St or UC or Central Florida that are capable of breaking through every blue moon with a special class (e.g. Elder) but most have no chance.
 
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ButlerParent said:
It is a red state. So the republicans are responsible for this if we use what you just said.
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Ohio is basically a coinflip every year.

This isn't a political issue when it comes to this article. Families have become much more open to endless educational possibilities. The days of waking up and walking down the road to school are over. Choices everywhere with very little restrictions now.
 
Milton-Union is a D5 program at a school that offers XC, golf and soccer. I’d guess their soccer program dressed somewhere between 20-25 players this fall. Soccer has had a major impact on football participation and you can’t convince me otherwise.
I don’t look for the numbers to improve anytime soon. I’ll be surprised if esports isn’t a program offered in 75%+ of Ohio schools within the next decade.
Also, the biggest recruiters and coordinators of kids changing/selecting high schools is the kids themselves. I can guarantee you the phones of those Meadowdale kids get blown up by kids at other schools. Snapchat and Instagram direct messages are two of the greatest recruiting tools available to the modern athlete. Need a receiver? Add the best kid at the neighboring school on social media and see if he wants to catch your passes.
 
Pay to play. Not every state does the concept of forcing players to pay to be members of a sports team. That really limits your bench players from really wanting to be on the team. Sure, if you win a lot, you get a lot of coat tail riders, who will be on the team to collect their state ring, but if you're 2-8 you're probably not two or three deep at every position. That's where I notice the biggest drop from the late 90s-early 00s. It's not JUST trying out or having a no-cut team due to low numbers. You actually have to have funds (sometime covered by a booster club), to play a sport.
 
The Dock said:
ah yes, the decline of the black nuclear family is why football participation is low places like the Ohio Valley and southeastern Ohio. 🧠
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Yep, black families make up such a high percentage of the total population in these two area’s - this has to be their cause for low participation numbers.

I heard Charles Barkley once say something to the effect ‘poverty sees no color’. This might be a good starting point for these areas to investigate why participation numbers in sports is down.
 
The tweet from the Post is misleading to what the article is about. Article is about the haves and have-nots. It comes down to the voucher program being used. I am curious of the amount of football players are at schools via the voucher program but I’m doubting we will ever find that number out.

As for the participation part, it seems as though overall participation is higher than it was in 2018 but some schools have had trouble maintaining their program.
 
WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
Yep, black families make up such a high percentage of the total population in these two area’s - this has to be their cause for low participation numbers.

I heard Charles Barkley once say something to the effect ‘poverty sees no color’. This might be a good starting point for these areas to investigate why participation numbers in sports is down.
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If a family is struggling for money, a 15-18 year old might have a job after school that actually contributes to the overall family income. Or, at least helps take care of that kid alone. Playing sports for free can be an issue.

A big one that seems to be overlooked is transportation. City or rural... if you rely on the public transportation (either city or school provided)... getting home from practice may benefit from friends or coaches that can drive players home. But, is that something they can rely on or rather would they go into sports KNOWING they need to rely on friends or coaches to give them those rides EVERY day they have practice or games.

At least in a city you might be able to walk home if the situation and neighborhood isn't bad. Rural? You could be hours away if you had to walk. It's just a no-go. And yes, they can get rides... but it's tough to even start an after school activity when you know day one you have to ask someone to give you a ride home.
 
I think the availability of high paying jobs (for a HS kid) has had an impact on sport participation. A kid can go work for 20 hours a week and bring home north of $300 is certainly appealing to many.
 
WJ-OSU-STEELERS said:
Yep, black families make up such a high percentage of the total population in these two area’s - this has to be their cause for low participation numbers.

I heard Charles Barkley once say something to the effect ‘poverty sees no color’. This might be a good starting point for these areas to investigate why participation numbers in sports is down.
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Yep, among other things.
 
I think that the lack of a transition for kids from flag to tackle in the 5-6th grade range in non suburban communities is huge. What I mean by that is having what they call rookie tackle which is a 7v7 version of tackle football in the 4th-5th grade range then even adapting the 11 man game to allows kids to learn the game in 5th-6th grade range is huge. When I look it up for my area, there are options, buts its in the suburbs, not many options for that, especially in rural areas. This padded flag and rookie tackle type leagues definitely put parents at ease.

Also, I think football can be a huge draw for kids, its a non cut sport, they aren't in theory cutting kids like they do in the travel baseball, soccer realm and AAU or get relegated to a team who can't compete. I think that would be a way to draw more kids out and as long as your youth, junior high, and even frosh and JV level coaches take the time to play every kid and focus on fundamentals so they can see growth and success, I don't see why we can't grow the game more.
 
Smarty2022 said:
Like what? Democrats literally ruin everything they get involved in!
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The last time the Democratic party "controlled" the state was 2010ish when the House and Governorship were blue. The Ohio Senate has been red for lord knows how long and the Republican party has controlled both houses of the General Assembly for now over a decade.

The state has had ONE democratic governor in the last 30 years.

Ohio may as well be in the old Solid South.
 
Doublehelix said:
Ohio is basically a coinflip every year.

This isn't a political issue when it comes to this article. Families have become much more open to endless educational possibilities. The days of waking up and walking down the road to school are over. Choices everywhere with very little restrictions now.
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Maybe on the national stage but at the state level for over a decade now the Republican has controlled the Governor's office and both houses of the GA.

Ohio went for Trump in both '16 and '20 so a coinflip may be a tad extreme in your phrasing there. I'd argue Ohio is as red as Indiana has always been.
 
scbuckeye99 said:
Maybe on the national stage but at the state level for over a decade now the Republican has controlled the Governor's office and both houses of the GA.

Ohio went for Trump in both '16 and '20 so a coinflip may be a tad extreme in your phrasing there. I'd argue Ohio is as red as Indiana has always been.
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I live in Alabama (Ohio resident for 56 years) and I can tell you that Ohio is not old South.
There are many things contributing to the decline. One is society, one is the absence of 3-4+ kid families, the move to eliminate contact sports and the movement of people to more suburban towns from small town America. Small town America is full of empty nests. Dayton is smaller but the suburbs have grown exponentially. Springboro and Loveland were two teams Milton played in the 80s that they could never play now. Nice article.
 
Sykotyk said:
If a family is struggling for money, a 15-18 year old might have a job after school that actually contributes to the overall family income. Or, at least helps take care of that kid alone. Playing sports for free can be an issue.

A big one that seems to be overlooked is transportation. City or rural... if you rely on the public transportation (either city or school provided)... getting home from practice may benefit from friends or coaches that can drive players home. But, is that something they can rely on or rather would they go into sports KNOWING they need to rely on friends or coaches to give them those rides EVERY day they have practice or games.

At least in a city you might be able to walk home if the situation and neighborhood isn't bad. Rural? You could be hours away if you had to walk. It's just a no-go. And yes, they can get rides... but it's tough to even start an after school activity when you know day one you have to ask someone to give you a ride home.
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"Getting rides" was necessary and done by us small town hicks 45 years ago - my freshman and sophomore teammates lined up rides with older teammates for whom our dropoff was "on the way." We helped pay gas money (among other things) in exchange. The hardest part actually was getting rides home after games on Friday or Saturday night (we played our home games at a local stadium but had to go back to the HS to shower, etc.)! As noted in the "low score thread" - I am OLD! Come to think of it, I actually rode a bike to 2-a-days most of freshman year. I didn't yet know anyone on the team who drove (that changed by the time 2-a-days ended), my dad was running his business during the day and mom was tending to 4 younger siblings. I would not have dreamed of any other way (and they didn't either). But that sounds like I walked to school through 6 feet of snow and -12 temperatures... lol.

So on the one hand, we can say "get a ride." .....On the other hand, 30 years later my kid wasn't permitted by her mother to walk 6 blocks to school - it might not be safe (not my stance, drove me nuts). And my kid's friends, classmates and/or teammates had the same parental oversight - they were not permitted to walk. And they didn't share rides - a parent almost ALWAYS picked each one of them up separately- otherwise you weren't a good attentive parent and take that 10 minutes to bond (do I sound like a bitter NIMBY?)
And that was 10-15 years ago. So maybe the helicopter-parenting syndrome (but not in the MAC, lol!) is part (although probably not a predominant) explanation for declining participation in school sports today. It's somewhat counter-intuitive that a parent can/will provide rides with a grade school/junior high travel league or rec league soccer practice that takes place in the evening (and not every day), regardless of socio-economic status ---in sports that those of us here think of as secondary. Whereas by the time kids reach high school, most parents' work schedules do not mesh so well with varsity football and basketball practices (or any other sport/co-curricular activity) that usually occur right after school, every day, and end before many parents are off from work. Those of us on this thread cannot imagine that varsity football wouldn't be a hugely greater priority than grade school rec league soccer. But for many parents/families, the rec league soccer is more important to their kids' development than HS football or any other HS sport. I don't agree with that take, but many families follow that logic.

After-school jobs are part of the reason too. But there are probably 50 factors. From my perspective, the biggest factor, by far, is the cell-phone/ipad. Kids don't need to socialize in-person (and that socialization was part of the allure of sports in my day). Instead, texting, Instagram, emails all suffice for interpersonal communication. Yes, the high-end athlete uses those technological tools to promote themselves, their teams, etc... but for the 95% who are not elite athletes or in a culture like the MAC (which is the exception and not the norm), technology is not a tool to use to supplement athletics and other social activities. For those 95%, technology is THE social activity.

Don't blame the kids - somehow this happened on our watch.
 
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