Valpo dropping Crusaders name

tucson said:
Sure, some don't support it. Many do. The student and faculty groups passed resolutions and the alumni board of directors signaled support. So the "many don't" must be in the minority. I guess you're never going to please everybody, that's life.

I mean I don't know that I really care. A small private college in northwest Indiana changing their nickname from Crusaders to.. whatever else will not have any significant impact on my life in any way. If they want to change it (and it seems clear they do), then let them. Have at it.
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Right. We're talking about a small school whose only name-recognition beyond the state of Indiana was their brief spate of mid-major basketball success in the late 90's.

Crusader is probably not an objectionable mascot. But if a school, its student body and the like believes it is best to change the mascot -- then so what?
 
Summa said:
Thanks for the heads up Dock. I am fairly certain you actually do not understand the Wikipedia argument fallacy you cited. ?
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Nah.

You counter
I love how people get so upset over a mascot name change and claim it has to do with PC and everyone being soft, blah, blah, blah.
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with "You seem pretty upset with others presumably being upset over a mascot name being changed."

It's trying to discredit the opponent's argument by claiming the opponent's behavior in the argument is inconsistent with the conclusion. That's literally the fallacy.
 
YTOWN said:
It might choke Artie but it ain't gonna choke Stymie!
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Now you've done it. Not only will they have to drop "fighting", but also "choke" since it is a form of violence. New name could be Scottsdale CC Artis......have no idea what an "Artis" is, but I'm pretty certain it is offensive, so that might not work either.
 
NothingButTheTruth said:
Now you've done it. Not only will they have to drop "fighting", but also "choke" since it is a form of violence. New name could be Scottsdale CC Artis......have no idea what an "Artis" is, but I'm pretty certain it is offensive, so that might not work either.
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I think an "Artis" is a very tall Jacksonville basketball player. Throw in Pembrook Burrows and we can just call them the 7-footers. :)
 
The Dock said:
Nah.

You counter with "You seem pretty upset with others presumably being upset over a mascot name being changed."

It's trying to discredit the opponent's argument by claiming the opponent's behavior in the argument is inconsistent with the conclusion. That's literally the fallacy.
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Got it. I'll just ignore your hasty generalization fallacy (false assumptions) to my original post. LOL. Mea culpa.
 
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Dock, a name can have a sentimental significance to people. Otherwise why do people correct you when you call them the wrong name?
All i know is when I say “oh, you’re a Red Hawk” to someone that went to Miami, they almost always correct me and say “no, I am a Redskin”. There is a sentimental value to the name.
Obviously, they can change the name if they want but you can’t convince me all alum were fine with it or that names don’t matter.
Also, you don’t have to act like Valpo is insignificant or not worth discussing. Its a good school with great students and professors.
 
AlwaysCurious said:
All i know is when I say “oh, you’re a Red Hawk” to someone that went to Miami, they almost always correct me and say “no, I am a Redskin”. There is a sentimental value to the name.
Obviously, they can change the name if they want but you can’t convince me all alum were fine with it or that names don’t matter.
Also, you don’t have to act like Valpo is insignificant or not worth discussing. Its a good school with great students and professors.
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I didn't make a judgment on Valpo as an institution or its academic caliber. It's a small school, one among many in the Chicago metro area. Just like how Capital is a small school, one among many in the state of Ohio. Nevertheless, it and the mascot faux-controversy is pretty insignificant in the context of the broader country.

Miami hasn't used that mascot in 25 years. So, whatever? If they've bought any licensed Miami U merchandise in that timeframe, it uses the current mascot.

Dock, a name can have a sentimental significance to people. Otherwise why do people correct you when you call them the wrong name?
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Sentimental significance? Weird. I can care less if my undergrad changed their mascot or not, because at the end of the day it still has the school's name on the degree.
 
AlwaysCurious said:
Dock, a name can have a sentimental significance to people. Otherwise why do people correct you when you call them the wrong name?
All i know is when I say “oh, you’re a Red Hawk” to someone that went to Miami, they almost always correct me and say “no, I am a Redskin”. There is a sentimental value to the name.
Obviously, they can change the name if they want but you can’t convince me all alum were fine with it or that names don’t matter.
Also, you don’t have to act like Valpo is insignificant or not worth discussing. Its a good school with great students and professors.
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Nothing to argue against in that. Empathy is important. It's easy to understand the upset, I've made the same argument as you have here. But not to prevent the change. Only to understand it will hurt some.

Loyal alums will have empathy for future ones that do not want to be called "Crusaders." History does change as new facts are discovered and enlightenments reexamined. We ALL understand the slippery slope of changing "mascots" because some disgusting group has appropriated the symbol. In THIS case, I suspect it just made the decision easier. They've been discussing the reasons for quite some time apparently.

They knew they were making the change at the risk of losing support. Kudos to the present population of the school for standing up for principals over the face of those that would castigate them for doing so. Those loyal will recall it was the education and those principal, not the mascot that helped make them who they became.
 
AlwaysCurious said:
So when will the GameCocks mascot be changed? Somewhere there has to be someone offended by that.
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Around two decades ago I went to the USC on a somewhat regular basis. I was immediately struck by the number of comely coeds, usually blondes, who wore very short gray athletic shorts with the words "cocks" printed on the back.
 
The Teeth. The Abscess. Naw, that's try too hard There has to be a good play on "molar."..... The Grind? That's kind of ok. or is that a punk band....
 
OldSoulon said:
So the Crusades had nothing to do with taking back land that the Muslims had conquered as they moved Northward?
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Please study history and go back further. Christians didn't have that land first. Ancient tribes/kingdoms eventually became Muslim and were retaking their the lands the Christians took.

I stand by my original statement.
 
cincifbfan said:
Please study history and go back further. Christians didn't have that land first. Ancient tribes/kingdoms eventually became Muslim and were retaking their the lands the Christians took.

I stand by my original statement.
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So you're saying it's more about Ancient tribes/kingdoms and not really about Muslims and Christians?
 
OldSoulon said:
So taking back the Iberian Peninsula was an act of greed?
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You are talking about reconquista, not the Crusades. The Iberian peninsula has been under numerous different rulers thought history, the Christians being just one. All were taken by greed.
 
cincifbfan said:
You are talking about reconquista, not the Crusades. The Iberian peninsula has been under numerous different rulers thought history, the Christians being just one. All were taken by greed.
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Are you going to give your house back to the Shawnee, or whichever tribe inhabited the land its on now?
 
AlwaysCurious said:
So when will the GameCocks mascot be changed? Somewhere there has to be someone offended by that.
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Though the humor of the C-part of the word is one thing, since a gamecock is a rooster bred for cock-fighting, don't think for one second some animal rights group doesn't have their eyes on forcing a change.
 
cjb56 said:
Are you going to give your house back to the Shawnee, or whichever tribe inhabited the land its on now?
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Ok 2 things. First, what does that have to do with what we are talking about
Second, there is evidence now that points to european tribes being in North America before the native americans.
 
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