Triple Jump---Dead Again

Lancermania -
I agree, the hammer (probably not the jav.) could be added, but not until we have the TJ and prove that it can be done. That's why I thought passing the TJ would be a great 1st step. Then in time ( a few years) we may have the Hammer, Distance Med. (instead of the 4 x 200) and maybe the 2000 steeple at the State Meet. The Jav. would need a harder sell IMO.

There just needs to be more education about coaching and running a meet so that some can see how great the sport of Track and Field is.
The latest numbers say that Track and Field is #1 in terms of participation in High School, so the kids are getting the idea.

The TJ should come first as it would be no cost, no real facility upgrade, and not add time to a meet (at least at District/Regional/State).

If meets, coaches, officials, fans etc.can not understand and "handle" the TJ, how in the heck can we expect to ever "handle" anything else?

I takes work to inform and educate just like it takes work to run an efficient meet... Some just don't want to put in the work.
 
Lancermania said:
If you're going to add another jumping event then you also have to add another throwing event like the javelin or hammer.
Click to expand...

HorridusKnows, LancermaniaKnows and BobbyKnows that the event cannot be run without time constraint issues. I AM NOT opposed to the event . I AM Opposed to what issues the event would create. most of you have never been to a long jump pit area and observed the issues that event inherently creates. There are many Bobbys on yappi who all agree that this event cannot work with just one runway. BobbyKnows and HorridusKnows and LancermaniaKnows.

Who else will join BobbyKnows on this issue? Mr.Red&WhiteKnows as well. Join the BobbyKnows party. So let's dance :Party:

Javman loves LM's suggestion because he was once the Javman. Didn't Carly Simon once sing a song about the JavMan? take my spear away. talkin' the javman.

Next, quit the attack on the distance races. How many sprint races are there in track and field compared to distance races? Cross Country and track are two different sports.the distance medley does allow an element of the sprints to exist. What is best for track and field are meets that are enjoyable to watch and can be completed with all events in no more than 2 1/2 hours. People do not want to be there any longer. If you can't finish the meet in that timeframe, you should not be running a meet. Because BobbyKnows!
 
BobbyKnows, I would still like to find out which 16/16 team invitationals you went to which were completed in 2.5 hours. I want to talk to those officials and meet managers to get some ideas for our meet.

On adding a throw, I think it would be much more likely the OHSAA would add the javelin than the hammer. Both would require new facilities at most HS tracks, but the hammer is more dangerous for both the competitors and the spectators. And if you thought there was a dearth of coaches who can coach the triple jump the hammer would be an order of magnitude worse. I would be all for adding the javelin, if only because it is a field event I could be decent at coaching.

But back on the whole "adding triple jump will make meets too long" meme: How is it that most other states have the triple jump and manage to get their meets completed? I bet if some of those officials who can get in a track meet with 16 boys and 16 girls teams in two and a half hours were to give seminars we would be able to get in the triple jump without too much additional trouble.
 
Ohio does allow the hammer as an event in duals or invitationals if you have the facilities but the javelin is not an allowed event in Ohio. At least that is the way it was last time I heard. Which I always found odd as I feel the hammer is a bit more dangerous than the jav.
 
Here is what I know... I'm sure Bobby knows more (like the name of the meet that has 32 teams and is done in 2.5 hours) -share your knowledge.

The board of control voted 4 to 4 about the issue of having the Triple jump at the District, Regional and State meets. These are all 2-day meets, so I doubt that the time constraint was the reason. The board, which most are new to (less than a month) was not well informed about what the process and progress of the TJ over the past 2-3 years has been...The former board was better informed and were leaning toward passing it. Now, I don't know who voted which way, but one may speculate that the 3 that were not new members were 3 of the 4 who voted "yes". If I was not sure of all the details of a vote, I would probably would vote "no" too... or learn more about it.
It was not a vote to add the TJ to duals, invitationals or relay meets.
Many of those meets do not do all the events and some do more events (shuttle hurdles, DMR, Hammer, etc) We do not even pole vault in out league meets (for the past 6 years) and still have had a PV State qualifier 5 years, so you do not Have to have all events at all meets.
Our District has 21 teams and gets all field events done the first day with only one runway/pit. the entire 2nd day of finals (which is about 2.5 - 3 hours) could handle the TJ.

I am just a fan of the sport and the kids who want to get involved. Increased oppurtunity, with no additional cost of money or time seems like a good thing to me. If it would help one kid in the State, from a school 200 miles from my school, to either get a scholarship, qualify to the State, or Regional, letter for thier school or even earn a medal... and it cost me little ... it's OK by me.
That's why I have learned the event, so I can officiate it at 2 meets a year, and to me, helping one kid to work toward a goal is worth the effort.
I one kid in the State, would stay on the Track team because they found their niche in the event and that kid is on Bobby's team, then It's worth it.
Bobby should know that.

And Carole King originally wrote/sang Jazzman (Javman), but Carly Simon is much more attractive IMO... but only Bobby knows for sure

I really think mathking knows more about math though.
 
Last edited:
mathking said:
BobbyKnows, I would still like to find out which 16/16 team invitationals you went to which were completed in 2.5 hours. I want to talk to those officials and meet managers to get some ideas for our meet.

On adding a throw, I think it would be much more likely the OHSAA would add the javelin than the hammer. Both would require new facilities at most HS tracks, but the hammer is more dangerous for both the competitors and the spectators. And if you thought there was a dearth of coaches who can coach the triple jump the hammer would be an order of magnitude worse. I would be all for adding the javelin, if only because it is a field event I could be decent at coaching.

From the OHSAA Manual...
Section 9. High School Regulations
A competitor may compete in a maximum of four track and field events. The four events may be any
combination of track and field events, including relays, or may be four track events or four field events.
This regulation applies to all competitions – regular season and OHSAA tournaments.
PARTICIPATION LIMITATION PENALTY - An athlete who exceeds the participation limitation
shall be disqualified. The forfeiture bylaws apply as written in Bylaw 11. In support of this, NFHS
Rule 4-2-PEN specifies that a competitor who participates in more than the four allowable events
shall forfeit all places and points and shall be disqualified from further competition in the
meet/tournament. In relay events, the team’s relay points and places shall also be forfeited.
The four-event limitation applies to single and multi-day competition – regular season and
tournaments.
The Order of Events as specified in the National Federation (NFHS) Track and Field Rules, Rule 1, shall
be used in all high school competition in Ohio and may be changed only by mutual agreement. The
javelin is NOT an approved event and is not permitted in high school competition.

Ohio Track and Field Modifications
Rule Modification
Rule 1-3 Javelin is not permitted in Ohio
Click to expand...
 
I know the javelin is not permitted in OHSAA competition, but I honestly think that if there were ever pressure to add a throwing event for district/regional/state competition at least some people would point out that the hammer is much more dangerous than the javelin. If for no other reason than insurers know. (I did an actuarial project once in college and the hammer throw was one of the most dangerous sporting events to watch.) As an aside here, does anyone know the history of the javelin not being permitted in OHSAA competition?


Or any officials who can run our 16/16 team invitational in 2.5 hours for me. I just want them to get the pole vault done that fast.
 
At one time the discus was dropped (too dangerous) and the javelin was added to the the state order of events. The ja was dropped shortly there after and the discus was reinstated. I can't recall seeing what years this happened, but Red Edwards can probably look it up.
 
After a little research I found this information collected by Craig Whitmore, former historian for the OATCCC.

State Tournament Timeline
1908 The first state tournament is held at Denison University and features 23 of the 30 OHSAA member schools. Columbus North is the winner with 19 points as the 100, 220, 440, 120 high hurdles, 220 low hurdles, shot put, discus, hammer, high jump, long jump and pole vault are contested. The mile relay is also run but not included in the scoring. Scoring is 5-3-1.
1909 The tournament moves to Ohio Wesleyan University. The 880 is added.
1910 The tournament moves to Ohio Field on the Ohio State University campus.
1911 The mile run is added. Scoring is 5-3-2-1.
1917 The javelin is added and the hammer dropped.
1921 The first year that there are two classes (A-large schools and B-small schools).
1924 The tournament is held in Ohio Stadium for the first time. The 220 and 220 hurdles are run on straightaways and the 440 is run around one turn (through 1952).
1925 The first year the National Federation of State High School Associations recognizes track and field records.
1929 The 880-yard relay is added. The 880 run is run around three turns (through 1949).
1935 The National Federation lowers the high hurdles from 42 to 39 inches and the low hurdles from 220 yards to 200 yards (although Ohio continues to run 220 yards).
1936 Class A schools run the 200-yard low hurdles, but the Class B schools run the 220. The mile medley relay (220, 220,440, 880) is added.
1937 Class B switches to the 200-yard low hurdles.
1938 The medley relay is dropped and the javelin is prohibited in all OHSAA interscholastic competition. The low hurdles go back to 220 yards.

I was incorrect earlier in stating the discus gve way to the Javelin.
 
mathking said:
I know the javelin is not permitted in OHSAA competition, but I honestly think that if there were ever pressure to add a throwing event for district/regional/state competition at least some people would point out that the hammer is much more dangerous than the javelin. If for no other reason than insurers know. (I did an actuarial project once in college and the hammer throw was one of the most dangerous sporting events to watch.) As an aside here, does anyone know the history of the javelin not being permitted in OHSAA competition?


Or any officials who can run our 16/16 team invitational in 2.5 hours for me. I just want them to get the pole vault done that fast.
Click to expand...

MathKing, you are absolutely right! The vault can take forever as well with the MOST experienced of people running the event. I love the way the discussion digressed into a javman v. hammaMan diatribe. I'm waiting for LM to weigh in on this subject.

I believe that those in the know, like MathKing, understand the inability of running an event like the triple jump just doesn't work in invitationals. We want people to come an enjoy a meet, not dread it due to the structure of sport. I'm sure the Javman will weigh in on this. Fear Javman's Spear!
 
I had a very, very much older coach tell me once that the main reason the Jav was dropped in the 1930's was that some Big Ten schools (OSU included) had eliminated the event; no runway to throw at OSU meant no event for the HS state meet, either.

Our school still has a listed school record in the Javelin that has been passed down through the years - 172' from 1937. I can't imagine what version of a jav was in use at the time.
 
The reason I said the Jav. would be a "harder sell" is because it is "outlawed" in Ohio. There are meets that throw the Hammer, run the Steeple, and even do the overly time-consuming Triple Jump...(attempt at Sarcasm)

Also, the Hammer, although potentially dangerous, is more of a "Weight" event IMO...takes good strength and takes technique from what I know (Have never done it or coached it).
The Javelin, on the other hand, seems more of a technique for a strong armed football / baseball player and not your average shot/disc guy. I have thrown the Jav and "coached" it a little... if you can get them to "throw through the point" it will travel
Some of the great HS Javelin throwers are Football guys Terry Bradshaw, Russ Francis, or entertaining...Actor - Michael Landon (yes, little Joe) and Country Singer, Garth Brooks.

Also agree that the PV and HJ - due to 5-alive, checking out for other events and not a set time can extend the meets. For our meets and HJ is worse because high jumpers seem to do more events (so the come and go) and most teams have 2 HJers but not all have 2 PVers. For what it's worth, our 12 team invite, with only one pit/runway, has LJ and TJ for both boys and girls, and does not extend the meet. I don't know how we do it... maybe Bobby Knows.

The original post was about the Triple Jump not being approved this year for the District, Regional and State meets. Does "Everyone" know that all of those meets cover 2 days and each day is over Usually at least 2.5 hours? I'm sure they could get the TJ completed without running the event after the 4 x 400 finals.
They also could get another "weight" event done with the time schedule, although many sites would not have facilities for the Jav. or Hammer.... All Sites have a TJ Facility. (if they have a LJ and white paint)
 
BobbyKnows said:
MathKing, you are absolutely right! The vault can take forever as well with the MOST experienced of people running the event. I love the way the discussion digressed into a javman v. hammaMan diatribe. I'm waiting for LM to weigh in on this subject.

I believe that those in the know, like MathKing, understand the inability of running an event like the triple jump just doesn't work in invitationals. We want people to come an enjoy a meet, not dread it due to the structure of sport. I'm sure the Javman will weigh in on this. Fear Javman's Spear!
Click to expand...

In VA we've run the triple jump for years without issue. It helps to have two runways, but it isn't mandatory. I don't think it would be possible to run a 16/16 event in 2.5 hours. Maybe with a high minimum on vertical jumps, 4 throws with no finals and boys and girls distance events at the same time.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top