Top recruit daring OHSAA to suspend him

zski71 said:
I agree with you. People say that the coaches don't want it. I've never seen a survey or poll to prove that, but people keep saying it. Football has become year round and as much as people complain about the time and expenses of year round play in other sports, HS football gets a pass. Its offseason and football programs are lifting before school and having "voluntary" workouts in the afternoon. I am one that has always been against the early morning before school stuff. No HS kid in any sport should be driving to school at 530 am for a "voluntary" workout. As long as they aren't playing on 7 v 7 teams I guess it's ok.
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I know spring football has gone to a vote and it was declined but I've never heard of or been given a hard reason why. There are a bunch of theories on why, but I've never seen a concrete answer. Again, club football in pads makes no sense and I understand why. What I don't get is we have a perfectly good alternative in 7-man flag football. There are countless adult leagues all over that are both indoor and outdoor. They have girl's flag leagues. It's no more physical than indoor soccer or even some of the high level travel soccer club teams. It's not any more physical than a club Greco or Freestyle wrestling team. Hell, I'm willing to bet a club season of volleyball is more physical and demanding on the body than a flag football season would be. All these sports can be 'year-round' as a result....but not football.
 
Fun2Bme said:
I know spring football has gone to a vote and it was declined but I've never heard of or been given a hard reason why. There are a bunch of theories on why, but I've never seen a concrete answer. Again, club football in pads makes no sense and I understand why. What I don't get is we have a perfectly good alternative in 7-man flag football. There are countless adult leagues all over that are both indoor and outdoor. They have girl's flag leagues. It's no more physical than indoor soccer or even some of the high level travel soccer club teams. It's not any more physical than a club Greco or Freestyle wrestling team. Hell, I'm willing to bet a club season of volleyball is more physical and demanding on the body than a flag football season would be. All these sports can be 'year-round' as a result....but not football.
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Is there a rule against kids playing flag football out of season?
 
Dayride said:
Is there a rule against kids playing flag football out of season?
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It's not worded that way in which they specifically outlaw flag football, but OHSAA does have a rule against organized football activities and the regulation of what kids can and cannot do pertaining to football is far greater than any other HS sport. I'm not sure of the actual language but the way it's worded makes it such that any attempt to organize what would be a flag football league, would be almost impossible because of the hoops you'd have to go through so the kids wouldn't be ineligible for the following season. That's my understanding and the way it was explained to me about 8 years ago when I pitched the idea to the HC where I was coaching.
 
Fun2Bme said:
It's not worded that way in which they specifically outlaw flag football, but OHSAA does have a rule against organized football activities and the regulation of what kids can and cannot do pertaining to football is far greater than any other HS sport. I'm not sure of the actual language but the way it's worded makes it such that any attempt to organize what would be a flag football league, would be almost impossible because of the hoops you'd have to go through so the kids wouldn't be ineligible for the following season. That's my understanding and the way it was explained to me about 8 years ago when I pitched the idea to the HC where I was coaching.
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So the teams just can't be put together by the school or affiliated with the school. At least that is how it sounds by the way you explained it.
 
Dayride said:
So the teams just can't be put together by the school or affiliated with the school. At least that is how it sounds by the way you explained it.
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There are additional restrictions regarding the number of players from a particular team, coach representation, etc. I was at a private school at the time and there were some issues with that and the OHSAA tampering/recruiting rules. It just overregulated.

My neighbor coaches a U17 or U18 (HS Age) boys national level travel club soccer team and also coaches at a very successful private school for boys soccer. Approx 5-6 state titles and a few runner ups the past 12 years since he's been on staff and no one bats an eye and maybe that's because the organization of club soccer has been as it is for such a long time, it's grandfathered in and it's the viewpoint "it's the way it's always been, why change?" I'm not sure. Just feels like HS football, compared to every other OHSAA sport, is overregulated.
 
Fun2Bme said:
There are additional restrictions regarding the number of players from a particular team, coach representation, etc. I was at a private school at the time and there were some issues with that and the OHSAA tampering/recruiting rules. It just overregulated.

My neighbor coaches a U17 or U18 (HS Age) boys national level travel club soccer team and also coaches at a very successful private school for boys soccer. Approx 5-6 state titles and a few runner ups the past 12 years since he's been on staff and no one bats an eye and maybe that's because the organization of club soccer has been as it is for such a long time, it's grandfathered in and it's the viewpoint "it's the way it's always been, why change?" I'm not sure. Just feels like HS football, compared to every other OHSAA sport, is overregulated.
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The number of players rule seems to be in all club sports. I think for AAU basketball it is either 2 or 3 on a team from the same high school. The first year my son played flag football he was put on a team with other kids from our town. The guy coaching the team also coached the pee wee team that had some of those kids on it. I remember we had to write a letter to someone with the pee wee league saying he did not recruit my son for flag football. Apparently, someone from the pee wee league tried to get him in trouble. Funny thing was those particular kids were all friends from the same neighborhood it was not like he picked an all star team from his team.
 
Dayride said:
The number of players rule seems to be in all club sports. I think for AAU basketball it is either 2 or 3 on a team from the same high school. The first year my son played flag football he was put on a team with other kids from our town. The guy coaching the team also coached the pee wee team that had some of those kids on it. I remember we had to write a letter to someone with the pee wee league saying he did not recruit my son for flag football. Apparently, someone from the pee wee league tried to get him in trouble. Funny thing was those particular kids were all friends from the same neighborhood it was not like he picked an all star team from his team.
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I think the lines get grayed out or blurred for the HS aged kids and I think the 'snakes in the grass' looking to catch you multiply as you get older. I know this, there's a reason someone isn't making a killing on running Spring flag leagues. The amount of money that people pay for club VB, Soccer, AAU Basketball, Select Baseball is insane and the money that's out there to be earned, it would have already been going on if not for OHSAA oversight
 
Fun2Bme said:
I think the lines get grayed out or blurred for the HS aged kids and I think the 'snakes in the grass' looking to catch you multiply as you get older. I know this, there's a reason someone isn't making a killing on running Spring flag leagues. The amount of money that people pay for club VB, Soccer, AAU Basketball, Select Baseball is insane and the money that's out there to be earned, it would have already been going on if not for OHSAA oversight
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Obviously the best way to get a flag football league for high school kids would be to cut the OHSAA in on the profits. No way do they turn down money.
 
Dayride said:
there a rule against kids playing flag football out of season?
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OHSAA has football specific rules.
Bylaw 7.4.1 A member of an interscholastic football team may not participate in any athletic contest, a tryout or any type of team or group training or practices with a non school team in that same sport between Aug 1 and May 31.
The kids are not allowed in 7 on 7 or flag events. 7 on 7 tournaments are happening now and Ohio kids cannot play.
 
zski71 said:
OHSAA has football specific rules.
Bylaw 7.4.1 A member of an interscholastic football team may not participate in any athletic contest, a tryout or any type of team or group training or practices with a non school team in that same sport between Aug 1 and May 31.
The kids are not allowed in 7 on 7 or flag events. 7 on 7 tournaments are happening now and Ohio kids cannot play.
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So in reading that rule you could technically play 7v7 in a league in June and July as a school. It is odd to single out football I know lots of lacrosse kids play box lacrosse in the off season. That’s pretty physical.
 
Dayride said:
So in reading that rule you could technically play 7v7 in a league in June and July as a school. It is odd to single out football I know lots of lacrosse kids play box lacrosse in the off season. That’s pretty physical.
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Yes, June and July are when a lot of HS play 7 on 7 scrimmages. By that time the boys are pretty much back with their school for football workouts with regular practice starting in July. It's my understanding the 7 on 7 club circuit goes January to May or beginning of June. Football is treated differently than all the other sports. Indiana and KY will have 7 v 7 club tryouts.
 
Bulldog_Pride said:
If the OHSAA can find a way to capitalize on it, it will be a done deal no matter what the coaches or schools say.
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Schools could vote to override the OHSAA on literally anything they want to. They just like to complain instead of doing any actual work to improve the organization they’re voluntary members of.
 
zski71 said:
OHSAA has football specific rules.
Bylaw 7.4.1 A member of an interscholastic football team may not participate in any athletic contest, a tryout or any type of team or group training or practices with a non school team in that same sport between Aug 1 and May 31.
The kids are not allowed in 7 on 7 or flag events. 7 on 7 tournaments are happening now and Ohio kids cannot play.
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I knew there was something in the rule book about playing any type of organized football outside of your typical HS season which runs June 1 with summer workouts and allowed camp days through the end of the regular season but I couldn't remember if it was ok if it was 1-2 kids from a district on a team or if it outlawed everything. Thanks for sharing.

Again, I go back to the fact that EVERY other sport has offseason opportunities to play in a league. There may be regulations on the number of kids from 1 school allowed on the club team, or number of contests, or length/time of the season, but it's done in every sport but football. Doesn't make much sense to me.
 
Fun2Bme said:
Can someone tell me why football is the only sport OHSAA regulates for off-season activity and/or participation in clubs? I don't expect there to be club football where kids can compete in a season during the spring just cause of the physicality, but having organized 7 on 7 flag leagues is something that I think is reasonable. Every other sport allows kids to participate in the offseason on clubs and select teams
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OHSAA does regulate off season activities in other sports. Coaches are only allowed certain amount of time with the team and some of that most not have any ball training activities. What happens with AAU or club teams OHSAA cannot touch, those are not schools teams and you are limited in the number of players you may have on your roster from one hs team. OHSAA has tried to mess with these teams before and gotten their hands slapped in court every time. If OHSAA pushes this kid they will end up in court and maintain them 000% winning average.
 
I didn’t make my point very well. OHSAA did go after spring soccer two or three times. Once some of the soccer organizations reached an accommodation. But some parents didn’t like it ,they sued. OHSSA lost to spring soccer every time. Costing them money and egg on the face. That’s what it will take for this kid to stay eligible. If the coaches association gets behind him they can get 7-7 if they want to take on Ohsaa and spend the money for lawyers.
 
shoprat2 said:
I didn’t make my point very well. OHSAA did go after spring soccer two or three times. Once some of the soccer organizations reached an accommodation. But some parents didn’t like it ,they sued. OHSSA lost to spring soccer every time. Costing them money and egg on the face. That’s what it will take for this kid to stay eligible. If the coaches association gets behind him they can get 7-7 if they want to take on Ohsaa and spend the money for lawyers.
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Except the coaches wouldn't side with the kid; they'd side with the OHSAA. The coaches don't want offseason 7 on 7 to be legal, and for good reason.
 
NewOldBlood said:
I couldn't disagree with this more. My daughter played travel softball from age 11 through senior year of high school. The coaches she had in travel ball were far better than any coach she had in school ball. I would say 90%+ of her development happened in travel ball. Every kid on her team received some amount of scholarship money to a DI, DII or NAIA school. Obviously it varied by position with the limited number of scholarships schools have, but they all got something. Yes it was expensive and time consuming, but it's what she wanted to do and I don't every remember her complaining about the time commitment. Maybe you were only referring to travel basketball teams, but it not fair to characterize all travel teams as scams. There are plenty of bad actors in the AAU/travel ball world, but there are also plenty of great coaches with the best intentions trying to help young athletes get to the next level.
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You know the easiest way to get an athletic scholarship? Be a female athlete.
 
ColumbusCatholic said:
An NFL quality player even if they aren’t NFL quality at high school graduation, in a perfect world should not be playing D3, D2, or walking on at D1. I have to think given better exposure some of them would’ve received scholarship money at a higher level. Your numbers also dont address walk ons. How many former walk ons star on their D1 teams and/or make the NFL. Any chance for exposure increases the chances they don’t sneak thru the cracks or have to play D3 or pay their own tuition
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Or they developed over their 4 years in college.
 
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