Top recruit daring OHSAA to suspend him

Let ppl do what they want with THEIR hard earned money(if they pay). Realistically most of these kids will not play after high school unless they find the right situation, have a growth spurt and show out, or just a an elite athlete. My son’s AAU coach offers reasonable price, actually works on skills and put together a team of local kids who are good. No one promised any of the parents championships, d1 looks, exposure etc. Literally not one of us thinks our kid is going to the league. But some kids love the game and their parents support that. People have to stop projecting on to others. If it’s not for you and your family then so be it. But don’t be mad because people want to support their kids.
 
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Rack162 said:
He was committed to Tennessee until Bruce Pearl got caught lying to the NCAA about throwing a recruiting house party.

You could call Craft a freak. He was a multiple All-Ohio quarterback who put up video game numbers and won Player of the Year in his junior season. He was a four-year starter in basketball Avg nearly 30, 8 and 8, earning multiple All-Ohio honors and Player of the Year. I believe he had a 100-4 record as a starter. He gave up football his senior year because he was a four-star basketball recruit. However, playing alongside Sullinger during the summers undoubtedly raised his stock.
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www.dispatch.com

'I was very skeptical.' OSU basketball star Aaron Craft says he intended to go to Tennessee

He became a fan favorite and hall-of-fame point guard, but when Ohio State eventually came calling, Aaron Craft wasn't very receptive to the interest.
www.dispatch.com www.dispatch.com

I mean freak is a relative term. Not getting into a debate, but Craft was a professional overseas basketball player. So yes he was a freak, but that makes like Mike Conley a superfreak I guess for being a top 5 NBA draft pick and still playing in the NBA. Not sure what that makes LeBron James.

I mean yes Craft had D1 offers but not Duke, Kansas, UNC or Kentucky. I am not saying he didn't have any D1 offers, he clearly did.

The point of the matter is did his summer play with AOR raise his recruiting profile and help him in addition to playing varsity for Liberty-Benton in Ohio D3.

Yes, no, or maybe?
 
cincifbfan said:
It's in what they have said. The complete ignorance about the recruiting process in claiming it's how things are done. It's the self importance about "Not me, my experience was different." It's all just the same excuses trying to justify spending years and crap-loads of money on something that they actually didn't benefit from. The "benefits" listed here could have been attained by playing rec, playing multiple sports, or a different activity all together.
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I am reading your responses and you are being stubborn. You are not listening. Why don't you ask the athletes themselves? You keep talking about parents living vicariously through the players.



Are the players enjoying the experience? Do the players have fond memories of the experience as they age?

I am middle aged and still play sports, and most of my teammates look at their youth and travel and tournament from their younger days with fondness.

I don't understand why you are trying to crap on everyone's parade lol. I actually do wish local rec leagues had more involvement and participation.

Also for the record I don't even have kids so I look at all this stuff from a different perspective. I have friend who coaches varsity ball and travel teams.
 
cincifbfan said:
There's a lot of talk on here about "the experience" and "the sacrifice" about playing club/AAU. This is all about living vicariously through your kids, keeping up with the Joneses, and the Fear of Missing Out. People are gullible, followers, and will do anything to make themselves appear better than they really are, and so many people are writing exactly that without realizing it..... because they have truly convinced themselves otherwise. They have convinced themselves that paying all the money, traveling to different suburban parks and schools, and buying the absolute best (extremely overpriced) equipment is doing wonders for their kid and family. You are overpaying for gear & swag (because everyone has to match), you are overpaying for lodging (because you have to book through the tournament company, who really jacks up the rate), you are constantly buying new equipment because little Jimmy or Suzie has to have the same thing or better as one of their teammates, and these parents eat it all up. I'm thoroughly convinced these leagues are more for the parents than the kids.

Now, que up all the people saying.... Not me and My kids
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So did you play AAU? Did you get to experience going out of town with your best friends and playing in different states and having memorable car rides and hotel stays that last a lifetime? Did you and your friends play together from 2nd grade through high school and are still best friends to this day? It sounds like somebody who did not get to experience AAU and just speaking from an outsiders perspective. If you are a parent then you know the most important thing as a parent is seeing your kids happy doing what they love to do. So if paying 300 dollars for a fee for my child to be apart of an organization is all then I will pay it.

People confuse the business of AAU and just automatically jump to saying its bad its bad. Of course there are negatives to the way some of these programs are run being money first teams about self. At most the fee that these parents pay is 4 to 500 and that covers uniform expenses court reservations and tournament booking, which if multiple teams are entered there is usually a discount involved just as most out of town tourneys offer discounts on hotels. Guess what if you don't want your child to experience it you can sign up for a local rec program or play for an AAU team that offers local on tournaments which most programs have.
 
Right on que, all the AAU defenders. Look, I don't care what people spend their money on. But AAU and Club have completely ruined youth sports, led to more burnout in our athletes, and led to more injuries. But, hey you all do you and keep drinking that Kool-Aid.
 
cincifbfan said:
Right on que, all the AAU defenders. Look, I don't care what people spend their money on. But AAU and Club have completely ruined youth sports, led to more burnout in our athletes, and led to more injuries. But, hey you all do you and keep drinking that Kool-Aid.
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But a kid will be safe from injury and burnout if he or she practices in the driveway for an hour or so each day. hits the park for a cpl hours 3 times a week for pick up games. Then goes to a once week rec practice and plays a rec game once a week.

Two of the best basketball players on one of my sons team their freshman year spent high school summers playing travel baseball. By their senior year they were the second or third players coming off the bench. Who were the kids starting over them? Kids who were regularly playing aau. Both kids were tremendous baseball players.
 
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Dayride said:
But a kid will be safe from injury and burnout if he or she practices in the driveway for an hour or so each day. hits the park for a cpl hours 3 times a week for pick up games. Then goes to a once week rec practice and plays a rec game once a week.

Two of the best basketball players on one of my sons team their freshman year spent high school summers playing travel baseball. By their senior year they were the second or third players coming off the bench. Who were the kids starting over them? Kids who were regularly playing aau. Both kids were tremendous baseball players.
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Freshman/sophomore year is when most kids start prioritizing certain sports, I was a 3 sport athlete (4 including powerlifting), by the time I was sophomore we knew I didn't have the body time or the shooting skills to be a stand out basketball player, where as I was a d-1 athlete in football and baseball, played high school basketball for fun. I just feel like football and basketball body types/size are so essential to playing at high level that most high school kids that play AAU in high school are truly wasting their time, I feel like they could accomplish the same thing by playing in summer high school leagues, etc. The Only small men in either sport that play at a high level, have crazy athletic ability with crazy quickness and speed. I am not disagreeing with anything in your post, I just really don't see the big benefit of AAU bball or baseball for 95% of participates. I am enjoying the exchange/conversation.
 
lightspeed84 said:
Freshman/sophomore year is when most kids start prioritizing certain sports, I was a 3 sport athlete (4 including powerlifting), by the time I was sophomore we knew I didn't have the body time or the shooting skills to be a stand out basketball player, where as I was a d-1 athlete in football and baseball, played high school basketball for fun. I just feel like football and basketball body types/size are so essential to playing at high level that most high school kids that play AAU in high school are truly wasting their time, I feel like they could accomplish the same thing by playing in summer high school leagues, etc. The Only small men in either sport that play at a high level, have crazy athletic ability with crazy quickness and speed. I am not disagreeing with anything in your post, I just really don't see the big benefit of AAU bball or baseball for 95% of participates. I am enjoying the exchange/conversation.
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I understand why you feel like it’s a waste of time. But not everyone’s goal is to make it professionally. Not everyone is going to have a ja morant type of come up. These are gonna be the best years of most of these kids lives. They are gettin to play the sport they love with their friends. What’s so wrong with that? I played basketball all my life from elementary all the way through my time in the army. It’s ok to just love the game. But I agree there needs to be a heavy dose of reality which some parents do not have.
 
xXAviatorEliteXx said:
I understand why you feel like it’s a waste of time. But not everyone’s goal is to make it professionally. Not everyone is going to have a ja morant type of come up. These are gonna be the best years of most of these kids lives. They are gettin to play the sport they love with their friends. What’s so wrong with that? I played basketball all my life from elementary all the way through my time in the army. It’s ok to just love the game. But I agree there needs to be a heavy dose of reality which some parents do not have.
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This was generally accomplished with your high school team with summer leagues, etc and it did not cost a family an arm or a leg to do it. My point is not every family can really afford it and it really wasn't necessary until recent times. Even Legion ball kids that were good high school players it didnt cost their family much money. I my eyes AAU ball and club has basically forced poorer families out of the sport, unless they are a freak. Overall youth participation in sports is decreasing by the year, this is one of many variables. Its like somewhere in the past 10 years or so, we as a society made AAU and/or club baseball unneeded necessity to continue playing, people find a way to monetize and take advantage of everything.
 
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lightspeed84 said:
Freshman/sophomore year is when most kids start prioritizing certain sports, I was a 3 sport athlete (4 including powerlifting), by the time I was sophomore we knew I didn't have the body time or the shooting skills to be a stand out basketball player, where as I was a d-1 athlete in football and baseball, played high school basketball for fun. I just feel like football and basketball body types/size are so essential to playing at high level that most high school kids that play AAU in high school are truly wasting their time, I feel like they could accomplish the same thing by playing in summer high school leagues, etc. The Only small men in either sport that play at a high level, have crazy athletic ability with crazy quickness and speed. I am not disagreeing with anything in your post, I just really don't see the big benefit of AAU bball or baseball for 95% of participates. I am enjoying the exchange/conversation.
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Its not about playing high level D1 most of it is about being with your friends going to different cities and making memories. Most football guys that play AAU are still making it to camps and still perfecting their football craft its not like AAU has HS basketball type of time dedication you play 2 or 3 weekends with 2 maybe 3 practices in a week and the whole month of June is off due to HS basketball schedule. Most are playing for the love of the game and to kick it with their friends and talk to girls from different cities enjoying their summers
 
xXAviatorEliteXx said:
I understand why you feel like it’s a waste of time. But not everyone’s goal is to make it professionally. Not everyone is going to have a ja morant type of come up. These are gonna be the best years of most of these kids lives. They are gettin to play the sport they love with their friends. What’s so wrong with that? I played basketball all my life from elementary all the way through my time in the army. It’s ok to just love the game. But I agree there needs to be a heavy dose of reality which some parents do not have.
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Most of what me and my friends talk about from AAU is the stuff we did in other cities not even basketball related. Going to the malls and running around the hotel campus meeting new people.
 
cincinnatieng82 said:
Its not about playing high level D1 most of it is about being with your friends going to different cities and making memories. Most football guys that play AAU are still making it to camps and still perfecting their football craft its not like AAU has HS basketball type of time dedication you play 2 or 3 weekends with 2 maybe 3 practices in a week and the whole month of June is off due to HS basketball schedule. Most are playing for the love of the game and to kick it with their friends and talk to girls from different cities enjoying their summers
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What does that cost the football guy in your example?
 
lightspeed84 said:
This was generally accomplished with your high school team with summer leagues, etc and it did not cost a family an arm or a leg to do it. My point is not every family can really afford it and it really wasn't necessary until recent times. Even Legion ball kids that were good high school players it didnt cost their family much money. I my eyes AAU ball and club has basically forced poorer families out of the sport, unless they are a freak. Overall youth participation in sports is decreasing by the year, this is one of many variables. Its like somewhere in the past 10 years or so, we as a society made AAU and/or club baseball unneeded necessity to continue playing, people find a way to monetize and take advantage of everything.
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AAU is like buying a car. There are different price points from cheap to expensive. (I know cheap and expensive can be different for different people) My kids played on least two teams that offered payment plans. My oldest son played for a team based out of a community center and that one was free and they played a national schedule. If a parent does their homework it is possible to get your kid on a team at a price point you can afford.

One thing that everyone fails to mention is you still have to make the team. As the kids get older most teams have returning players so you might go to a tryout with 30 kids for 3 spots.
 
As far as pricing poor families out of sports I think you can lump the high schools in that group as well. Between fundraisers, pay to play, fees for this and that, required team apparel, extra swag, booster memberships and sports passes that’s a decent a chunk of change. Then you have the “volunteer” aspect. A parent working second shift or on the weekends might have trouble making the time. Multiply all of that by how many kids and how many sports they play. Getting the athletic department off my payroll was one of the best things about my kids graduating.
 
cdub4 said:
I mean freak is a relative term. Not getting into a debate, but Craft was a professional overseas basketball player. So yes he was a freak, but that makes like Mike Conley a superfreak I guess for being a top 5 NBA draft pick and still playing in the NBA. Not sure what that makes LeBron James.

I mean yes Craft had D1 offers but not Duke, Kansas, UNC or Kentucky. I am not saying he didn't have any D1 offers, he clearly did.

The point of the matter is did his summer play with AOR raise his recruiting profile and help him in addition to playing varsity for Liberty-Benton in Ohio D3.

Yes, no, or maybe?
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As previously said, Craft was a freak high school athlete (though obviously not in the same league as THE ONE PERCENT), and again, playing with SULLINGER in the summer undoubtedly got eyes on him. No Sullinger in the summers; he presumably sticks to football.
 
lightspeed84 said:
Freshman/sophomore year is when most kids start prioritizing certain sports, I was a 3 sport athlete (4 including powerlifting), by the time I was sophomore we knew I didn't have the body time or the shooting skills to be a stand out basketball player, where as I was a d-1 athlete in football and baseball, played high school basketball for fun. I just feel like football and basketball body types/size are so essential to playing at high level that most high school kids that play AAU in high school are truly wasting their time, I feel like they could accomplish the same thing by playing in summer high school leagues, etc. The Only small men in either sport that play at a high level, have crazy athletic ability with crazy quickness and speed. I am not disagreeing with anything in your post, I just really don't see the big benefit of AAU bball or baseball for 95% of participates. I am enjoying the exchange/conversation.
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I am enjoying the conversation too. It is respectful.

Everything isn't black and white. I can admit definitely the amount of money spent on athletes that haven't reached puberty is mind blowing. I can agree with some of what you are saying.

I don't look at 17u and 15u the same way I look at 9u and 11u if that makes sense. We all in this conversation have different viewpoints. I also have mentioned I am not a parent so my perspective is different and that actually can be a interesting viewpoint in this.

In my PERFECT world which would never happen, I guess I am moderate on this....I would not like to see travel and AAU until 8th or 9th grade or HS honestly. Rec and local and short travel ball before that. Let some puberty set in and see where the the athletes passion lies before private lessons and 4 and 5 figure training costs.

The world just doesn't work this way though.
 
cincifbfan said:
Right on que, all the AAU defenders. Look, I don't care what people spend their money on. But AAU and Club have completely ruined youth sports, led to more burnout in our athletes, and led to more injuries. But, hey you all do you and keep drinking that Kool-Aid.
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To stay on topic, the kid wants to be able to compete against the best players in the country. Most of the rules that are in place are created by people who no longer breath. It is now 2024. A lot of folk on this board swear that Ohio ball has fallen off. You allow spring football or 7 on 7 during the spring and that tone would change.
 
Dayride said:
As far as pricing poor families out of sports I think you can lump the high schools in that group as well. Between fundraisers, pay to play, fees for this and that, required team apparel, extra swag, booster memberships and sports passes that’s a decent a chunk of change. Then you have the “volunteer” aspect. A parent working second shift or on the weekends might have trouble making the time. Multiply all of that by how many kids and how many sports they play. Getting the athletic department off my payroll was one of the best things about my kids graduating.
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I haven’t seen or heard of an athletic department that isn’t willing to work with families on costs to allow their child to play. Maybe I am spouting my opinion from a bubble and don’t know what the inner city high schools do. If there is a high school team that leaves a player off of their roster because their family doesn’t have the money that is terrible. I would appreciate if someone DM’d me and told me the programs that do this. I would like to reach out to them to assist because that’s not right
 
Rack162 said:
As previously said, Craft was a freak high school athlete (though obviously not in the same league as THE ONE PERCENT), and again, playing with SULLINGER in the summer undoubtedly got eyes on him. No Sullinger in the summers; he presumably sticks to football.
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So my point is simply Craft playing for AOR for multiple summers did benefit his career in a way that playing only for Liberty-Benton did not. It is very likely he earned more D1 offers playing for AOR and L-B than he would have played varsity basketball only and hooping at the local park in the summer.

In my opinion.
 
ColumbusCatholic said:
I haven’t seen or heard of an athletic department that isn’t willing to work with families on costs to allow their child to play. Maybe I am spouting my opinion from a bubble and don’t know what the inner city high schools do. If there is a high school team that leaves a player off of their roster because their family doesn’t have the money that is terrible. I would appreciate if someone DM’d me and told me the programs that do this. I would like to reach out to them to assist because that’s not right
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It is less about leaving a player off the roster as it the hidden costs associated with being on it. While a school may or may not require pay to play there are other expenses. Many high school athletes are required by their program(s) to purchase travel outfits, team-specific bat bags, batting helmets, hoodies, jackets and just about anything else you might find on the club circuit. That is a short list of items that sit in my garage or are shelved away in a closet in our home. While there are many opportunities to fundraise the most prominent one locally is telethons. Kids have to provide a list of a dozen or so family members or businesses to cold call and ask for donations during an event. There’s a third party that works with the programs and takes a rumored 1/5-1/3 of the proceeds to set up the fundraiser. The best part? The donation has to be $25 or greater. For all these reasons, my kid’s AAU season was actually cheaper than than that of his high school because his coaches prioritized keeping the cost low.
 
cdub4 said:
So my point is simply Craft playing for AOR for multiple summers did benefit his career in a way that playing only for Liberty-Benton did not. It is very likely he earned more D1 offers playing for AOR and L-B than he would have played varsity basketball only and hooping at the local park in the summer.

In my opinion.
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Right, playing alongside SULLINGER, a top-three player in the country, drastically increased his stock, landed him big D1 offers, and forced the returning football player of the year to give up football for basketball.
 
topperbounce said:
I beg to differ. If a kid is throwing in the 90’s in his high school games, and does not play travel ball, he will get found and recruited. Same goes for a girl throwing in the high 60’s.

I know of 3 athletes who never played travel ball and got scholarships. Saved their arms A LOT of innings, something the next level coaches loved.

If you would have said “not many” can get recruited off of school ball instead of “no one” I wouldn’t have even responded.
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Fair enough, how about "very few"? 😆
 
Rack162 said:
Right, playing alongside SULLINGER, a top-three player in the country, drastically increased his stock, landed him big D1 offers, and forced the returning football player of the year to give up football for basketball.
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I have no idea what you are trying to say lol. Oh well. Craft got more offers by playing with All Ohio Red in the summer and LB in the fall than he would have if he hopped at the local YMCA in the summers between varsity seasons and shot in his driveway hoop IMO.

My theory could be wrong, but that is what this board is for. Thad Matta very well may come to Findlay to check him hopping in his driveway and at the local gym against the best competition Findlay has to offer and gotten then Buckeye offer too.
 
I am still just waiting for the OHSAA to fold up shop and schools send the sports to the club organizations. It's only a matter of time before more schools drop sports and the only option becomes club type organizations. More of a European style. Honestly, I get a sense more recruiting for a lot of sports is done through travel and club than it is through their high school anyway.

Anyway, its capitalism, people should have the economic freedom to make choices how they spend their money, however, society should not have to bail them out all the time if they continually make poor choices.
 
cdub4 said:
I have no idea what you are trying to say lol. Oh well. Craft got more offers by playing with All Ohio Red in the summer and LB in the fall than he would have if he hopped at the local YMCA in the summers between varsity seasons and shot in his driveway hoop IMO.

My theory could be wrong, but that is what this board is for. Thad Matta very well may come to Findlay to check him hopping in his driveway and at the local gym against the best competition Findlay has to offer and gotten then Buckeye offer too.
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Our disagreement began when you dismissed Craft's greatness as a high school athlete. I never stated that he would have received a Tennessee offer without AAU; rather, I stated that he would not have received those offers if he had not played alongside Sullinger.

You're acting as if the attention he received came from his AAU squad rather than Sullinger, a FIVE STAR, #1 position player with offers from every D1 school in the country.
 
Can someone tell me why football is the only sport OHSAA regulates for off-season activity and/or participation in clubs? I don't expect there to be club football where kids can compete in a season during the spring just cause of the physicality, but having organized 7 on 7 flag leagues is something that I think is reasonable. Every other sport allows kids to participate in the offseason on clubs and select teams
 
Fun2Bme said:
Can someone tell me why football is the only sport OHSAA regulates for off-season activity and/or participation in clubs? I don't expect there to be club football where kids can compete in a season during the spring just cause of the physicality, but having organized 7 on 7 flag leagues is something that I think is reasonable. Every other sport allows kids to participate in the offseason on clubs and select teams
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I agree with you. People say that the coaches don't want it. I've never seen a survey or poll to prove that, but people keep saying it. Football has become year round and as much as people complain about the time and expenses of year round play in other sports, HS football gets a pass. Its offseason and football programs are lifting before school and having "voluntary" workouts in the afternoon. I am one that has always been against the early morning before school stuff. No HS kid in any sport should be driving to school at 530 am for a "voluntary" workout. As long as they aren't playing on 7 v 7 teams I guess it's ok.
 
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