Tie Declared!!!!

arizonawildcat said:
And there will always be an * after the listing of the 2014 Ohio state hockey champion.
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I don't know...

For awhile, it may feel like some kind of diminished accomplishment, but, over the decades, the participants will have many opportunities to tell the story of the state title game that was different and more memorable than all the rest.

The title will grow in importance over time, I think.
 
Another solution would be for St. Ignatius to be declared the "private school champions" and for Northview to be called the "public school champions." Seems like the next logical step, especially since Greater Cleveland already basically has two separate leagues based on the voluntary creation of the GLHL. :angel:
 
The NHC

RED DIVISION
Team GP W L T Pts. GF GA +/-
St John’s 8 6 1 1 13 38 15 23
Bowling Green 8 5 3 0 10 24 23 1
St Francis 8 4 4 0 8 18 27 -9
Northview 8 3 5 0 6 22 28 -6
Findlay 8 1 6 1 3 18 27 -9



WHITE DIVISION
National GP W L T Pts. GF GA +/-
Bedford 10 10 0 0 20 78 15 63
Southview 12 10 2 0 20 91 36 55
Perrysburg 13 10 3 0 20 114 50 64
Fremont 13 3 10 0 6 57 143 -86
Anthony Wayne 12 2 10 0 4 48 101 -53
Lake 13 1 12 0 2 37 94 -57



American GP W L T Pts. GF GA +/-
Maumee 13 11 2 0 22 89 36 53
Whitmer 14 10 4 0 20 125 72 53
Clay 13 7 6 0 14 70 51 19
Springfield 14 5 9 0 10 77 74 3
Ottawa Hills 11 0 11 0 0 4 118 -114
 
I say list them both as runners up, nobody won the game. From what I hear it was a mutual agreement to quit, therefore no winners/champs. Precedent had been set by having another game go longer. Iggy did take the ice though for OT 8
 
CatAlum said:
I don't know...

For awhile, it may feel like some kind of diminished accomplishment, but, over the decades, the participants will have many opportunities to tell the story of the state title game that was different and more memorable than all the rest.

The title will grow in importance over time, I think.
Click to expand...

I agree. Recall how people talk about those 'legendary' games of the past, including on Yappi. "Epic" is the word used by the SN coach in the STO interview after the game - how these kids battled, persevered, enduring fatigue and cramping up, etc. In the end, they'll all say - we did achieve a state championship.
 
CatAlum said:
If you are reading the Eddie Dwyer article (which says that)...well, at this point, PR takes over. I'll find out the real story from the hockey dads on Monday.
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Iggy's coach was on the radio this morning, and NEVER indicated that was his concern. Said his guys were on the ice "ready to go".

Not saying Sylvania's was either. This came from above them.
 
bluengold said:
I agree. Recall how people talk about those 'legendary' games of the past, including on Yappi. "Epic" is the word used by the SN coach in the STO interview after the game - how these kids battled, persevered, enduring fatigue and cramping up, etc. In the end, they'll all say - we did achieve a state championship.
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If they do say that they are not the competitors you are making them out to be.

And no, NONE of them quite achieved that. Not opinion, just how it is.
 
Nature Boy said:
Iggy's coach was on the radio this morning, and NEVER indicated that was his concern. Said his guys were on the ice "ready to go".

Not saying Sylvania's was either. This came from above them.
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I imagine the Iggy coach was doing some real ranting and raving on the sidelines when the announcement was made. OHSAA officials should have consulted him and then to lie and say they did!

There should be an investigation.

I would certainly be rooting for my area team, Northview over St Cuyahoga but if it was as this coach is implying, that only one team wanted to go on, then it would seem that team should have gotten the championship. If both teams wanted to go on, then if I have one objection to the decision, it was how it was handled, with one team in the lockers and one team on the ice. I can presume Northview was in the lockers getting the news and fighting it or I can presume their coach thought they were too injured/tired to come out. Shouldn't have to presume anything. If it was the latter, someone should have been wise enough to know, you can't cover stuff like that up for long and someone will look really bad.

BTW: I thought the Iggy kid announcers did a great job. They got indignant at the beginning but caught their composure and accepted what they were told, it was about safety of the players. And, they were entertaining. Well done.
 
Could arena costs have played into this? I know if you rent an arena as a promoter to put on a concert and are not out of there at a certain time, overtime costs kick in (this would not be the case of a primary tenant like the Blue Jackets).

Perhaps Nationwide told OHSAA, we booked this event for this amount of time and if you continue, you're going to have to pay extra. Ross may have said, enough's enough.
 
A lot of people on a number of internet boards have expressed some pretty strong "the players wanted to go on, they should have let them play" sentiments. But, I doubt many, if any, of them have ever been involved in anything like this.

First, "thirst" is not the same as "dehydration." A poster above said the players should have been given a "45-minute hydration break." Even mild hydration can take 4 hours or more to recover from, even with modern "sports drinks." Dehydration, real dehydration, is a very dangerous condition. I know because I've had it. It can lead to hyperthermia, strokes, even brain damage. The early signs, like cramps, were already evident in the players in the OTs. For those who aren't aware... the game started at 2:00pm. The game was called at 6:45pm. The official game time was 4:40. Enough already.
Second, these glib statements about "finishing the next day" are completely ignorant. The arena had already closed the concessions and sent those people home an hour prior to the end of the match. Security and maintenance people were already there twice as long as they expected. So, these posters simply want some immediate scheduling agreement, when there's all kinds of issues like availability of the arena, security personnel, maintenance people, accommodations for players and coaches and families and fans and officials and timekeepers and media and the guy who runs the Zamboni... and at what cost?
Third, things like shootouts are beyond the purview of the OHSAA. The NFHS bans games being resolved by "skills contests" (allowed in alignment with FIFA for soccer). So, the criticism of Dan Ross and the OHSAA on not having a shootout rule is, again, ignorant. Plus, shootouts are artificial and not reflective of the reality. In prior rounds, shootouts exists in games like soccer because at that point it doesn't matter which plays the next opponent... they're equal. But, in the finals they are just a way of distributing the hardware... period. The only reason shootouts are used in soccer: player safety, as stated by FIFA laws.

Look how other sports ties are resolved... in baseball and basketball, it's just an extension of normal play because scoring is more common. In football, teams are artificially put in a more likely position to score. In hockey, it's like the former... but maybe it should be like the latter. How about play 5 on 5 but only 3 are allowed in the defensive zone at any time?

I want contests to be resolved like everyone else. Americans by our very nature hate ties almost as much as losses. But, this is not the NHL where millions of dollars of TV and endorsement money is on the line. This is a high school contest... and once you gotten to the point of player health concerns, player desire to continue is not relevant. Cooler heads prevailed, and it's over. Anyway, few can remember who won in a certain year... but no one will forget this match regardless of the final decision.

Lesson to the players: sometimes things don't work out no matter how hard you try... and sometimes your opponent is not the only thing you must overcome.
 
I get the injury the injury and fatigue arguments but it seems like just postponing the end of the game to another day seems more reasonable. I'm sure if a weather cancellation had occurred and the arena was not available on the next weekend, they could have played at another location.
 
Yappi said:
I get the injury the injury and fatigue arguments but it seems like just postponing the end of the game to another day seems more reasonable. I'm sure if a weather cancellation had occurred and the arena was not available on the next weekend, they could have played at another location.
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It's not like a sport that is played outside, where you can find "another field" at little cost. Hockey arenas cost $$$ per hour. The only option would be to find a Sandusky-area rink and get everybody together, and all the equipment, for what might be a 30-second event. So, you take a week to put it together, pay the fees for all the various expenses and the first time down the ice the puck catches an edge and curves inside the post. Game over. Really? Is it really worth it? I mean.. *really* worth it? Uhhh.... no.
 
Tom Hsfootball, you make several strong arguments to include bringing in the NFHS but I do not believe they would like a tie either. I do think that now the OHSAA had just set a precedent that games can go no longer than 7 OTs, so now what? How do they solve the problem of a semi final going this distance? Whether we like shoot outs or not, it would have determined an outcome of the game and solved all your questions above. No increased costs on venue, personnel, lodging, media etc. I am totally in favor of continuing play but 100% against a tie! Figure it out OHSAA and I'm sure the NFHS gives provisions for states to have varying rules through a petition process. Nobody wanted a tie, everyone wants to prevent this in the future. Using money as reason to have a tie should never be acceptable. Everything I have read today, I do not believe this was a mutual agreement between coaches.
 
Just an idea...

The team that scored first in regulation wins the game...
if a tie exists after x# of OT's.

P.S. I'm going to vist my sister in Kent this coming weekend,
maybe I plant a big wet one on her.

:D

:>---

Up on 2 wheels - 1982 Honda 500GL Silver Wing
 
I am sure the OHSAA will do something to make sure this does not occur again. What I do not understand is, why was it OK for Aurora and Solon to play 8 OT's (and get a winner) in 2007, but you cannot play longer than 7 in the State Championship game? Were they not concerned about player health 6-7 years ago?
 
tom_hsfootball_fan said:
A lot of people on a number of internet boards have expressed some pretty strong "the players wanted to go on, they should have let them play" sentiments. But, I doubt many, if any, of them have ever been involved in anything like this.

First, "thirst" is not the same as "dehydration." A poster above said the players should have been given a "45-minute hydration break." Even mild hydration can take 4 hours or more to recover from, even with modern "sports drinks." Dehydration, real dehydration, is a very dangerous condition. I know because I've had it. It can lead to hyperthermia, strokes, even brain damage. The early signs, like cramps, were already evident in the players in the OTs. For those who aren't aware... the game started at 2:00pm. The game was called at 6:45pm. The official game time was 4:40. Enough already.
Second, these glib statements about "finishing the next day" are completely ignorant. The arena had already closed the concessions and sent those people home an hour prior to the end of the match. Security and maintenance people were already there twice as long as they expected. So, these posters simply want some immediate scheduling agreement, when there's all kinds of issues like availability of the arena, security personnel, maintenance people, accommodations for players and coaches and families and fans and officials and timekeepers and media and the guy who runs the Zamboni... and at what cost?
Third, things like shootouts are beyond the purview of the OHSAA. The NFHS bans games being resolved by "skills contests" (allowed in alignment with FIFA for soccer). So, the criticism of Dan Ross and the OHSAA on not having a shootout rule is, again, ignorant. Plus, shootouts are artificial and not reflective of the reality. In prior rounds, shootouts exists in games like soccer because at that point it doesn't matter which plays the next opponent... they're equal. But, in the finals they are just a way of distributing the hardware... period. The only reason shootouts are used in soccer: player safety, as stated by FIFA laws.

Look how other sports ties are resolved... in baseball and basketball, it's just an extension of normal play because scoring is more common. In football, teams are artificially put in a more likely position to score. In hockey, it's like the former... but maybe it should be like the latter. How about play 5 on 5 but only 3 are allowed in the defensive zone at any time?

I want contests to be resolved like everyone else. Americans by our very nature hate ties almost as much as losses. But, this is not the NHL where millions of dollars of TV and endorsement money is on the line. This is a high school contest... and once you gotten to the point of player health concerns, player desire to continue is not relevant. Cooler heads prevailed, and it's over. Anyway, few can remember who won in a certain year... but no one will forget this match regardless of the final decision.

Lesson to the players: sometimes things don't work out no matter how hard you try... and sometimes your opponent is not the only thing you must overcome.
Click to expand...

Tom, you really summed it up quite well. I have seen multiple overtime games before, as my son played for St. Edward's hockey team, his team was in what at the time was classified as a classic OHSAA playoff game in the 2008-2009 season vs. St Ignatius http://highschoolsports.cleveland.com/news/article/1867621284/st-edward-outlasts-st-ignatius-in-six-overtimes-in-district-hockey-final/
. I will tell you that the athletes on both sides were physical wrecks on both sides post game, dehydration, cramps so severe that they could barely stand at the post game handshake etc... after I believe 6 OT periods. The OHSAA does need a better OT system in place and I am all for the progressive reduction nof players on ice by OT period.
 
jlach22 said:
I am sure the OHSAA will do something to make sure this does not occur again. What I do not understand is, why was it OK for Aurora and Solon to play 8 OT's (and get a winner) in 2007, but you cannot play longer than 7 in the State Championship game? Were they not concerned about player health 6-7 years ago?
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Well, that's what happens when there are no contingencies/rules. I'm sure it "felt" to Ross like enough was enough, but that "feeling" can come to people at different times without rules. Seems to me that you should have rules that reduce the numbers on the ice as the OT's go on. Set an absolute limit on the number of OT's (somewhere around 6-8 OT's) and declare a winner if still tied based on some unpalatable criteria/option (as they all will be)...first to score in regulation, or a shootout.
 
CatAlum said:
I'm sure it "felt" to Ross like enough was enough, but that "feeling" can come to people at different times without rules.
Click to expand...

Sounds like you agree that Ross was in a no-win scenario. He was bound by the rules on how the game is played... but had the pressure of player health on when to call it. Player safety has been at the forefront of the discussion regarding high school sports in recent years. I think Ross simply had no choice given this unforeseen circumstance.

What Iggy and Northwest should do is play again, sanctioned by the OHSAA or not, and put their respective title trophies on the line... winner takes both. Don't advertise it, don't allow fans in, hire retired refs who can't be penalized by the OHSAA and get some private rink to play it on. Agree on a tiebreaker in case this happens again, and have it out privately. That's what Rocky Balboa and Apollo Creed would do.
 
tom_hsfootball_fan said:
Sounds like you agree that Ross was in a no-win scenario. He was bound by the rules on how the game is played... but had the pressure of player health on when to call it. Player safety has been at the forefront of the discussion regarding high school sports in recent years. I think Ross simply had no choice given this unforeseen circumstance.

What Iggy and Northwest should do is play again, sanctioned by the OHSAA or not, and put their respective title trophies on the line... winner takes both. Don't advertise it, don't allow fans in, hire retired refs who can't be penalized by the OHSAA and get some private rink to play it on. Agree on a tiebreaker in case this happens again, and have it out privately. That's what Rocky Balboa and Apollo Creed would do.
Click to expand...

I wonder what it was like trying to explain to the third and fourth line guys who certainly weren't fatigued that they were too tired to continue.
 
eastisbest said:
I imagine the Iggy coach was doing some real ranting and raving on the sidelines when the announcement was made. OHSAA officials should have consulted him and then to lie and say they did!

There should be an investigation.

I would certainly be rooting for my area team, Northview over St Cuyahoga but if it was as this coach is implying, that only one team wanted to go on, then it would seem that team should have gotten the championship. If both teams wanted to go on, then if I have one objection to the decision, it was how it was handled, with one team in the lockers and one team on the ice. I can presume Northview was in the lockers getting the news and fighting it or I can presume their coach thought they were too injured/tired to come out. Shouldn't have to presume anything. If it was the latter, someone should have been wise enough to know, you can't cover stuff like that up for long and someone will look really bad.

BTW: I thought the Iggy kid announcers did a great job. They got indignant at the beginning but caught their composure and accepted what they were told, it was about safety of the players. And, they were entertaining. Well done.
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Safety of which players? The third and fourth line ones who certainly weren't tired?
 
Other ties in OHSAA history:

2009 Girls Track D II: Bishop Hartley & CVCA
2007 Girls Track D III: Gilmour & Bellaire St. John Central
2004 Girls Track D I: Mason and Cleveland Collinwood
2001 Girls Track D I: Beaumont & Cleveland Collinwood
2000 Boys Track D III: Cortland Maplewood & Liberty-Benton
1998 Girls Track D I: Brookhaven & Cleveland Collinwood
1998 Boys Track D I: Brunswick & Westerville North
1997 Boys Track D I: Toledo Central Catholic & Canton McKinley & Thomas Worthington
1997 Boys Track D III: Yellow Springs & South Charleston Southeastern
1995 Girls Track D I: Trotwood-Madison & Cleveland Heights
1994 Girls Track D I: Cleveland John Adams & Magnificat
1993 Girls Track D III: Elmore Woodmore & Bishop Fenwick
1992 Girls Track D II: Beaumont & Springfield Shawnee
1982 Boys Track D I: Cleveland Heights & Cleveland John Adams
1982 Girls Swimming: Glenoak & Oak Hills
1976 Boys Track AAA: Alliance & Cleveland John Adams
1972 Boys Wrestling AAA: Valley Forge & Bay
1957 Boys Track B: Jefferson Township & Braceville
1956 Boys Track A: Akron North & Cleveland John Adams
1955 Boys Cross Country: Akron Buchtel & Columbus East
1948 Boys Wrestling: Cleveland West Tech & Lakewood
1941 Boys Track A: Cleveland Heights & Cleveland East Tech
1939 Boys Swimming: Canton McKinley & Fremont Ross
 
None of these being single athletic "events"; rather, they are sports in which there are a collection of events in which points are awarded for each individual event and added up...and everyone understands in those sports that a tie is a real possibility...and an acceptable outcome.
 
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