The Official 2024 Reds season thread
- Thread starter RazorRamon
- Start date
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If the Reds don’t make the playoffs, Nick Krall should be fired.
The deadline moves he made were essentially “go for it” if your definition of going for it is to risk absolutely nothing.
He essentially traded away an underperforming SP (Montas) to move a fellow shaky starter (Martinez) into his rotation spot while acquiring Junis to take Martinez’s long-relief spot.
He added Ty France to move Steer back to LF, essentially benching a garbage outfielder nightly while giving away Austin Slater for the favored Castellini return (cash).
And Lucas Sims isn’t much of a loss since the Reds will have a glut of relievers whenever Pagan returns.
Meanwhile, nothing was done for the near future except possibly finding a replacement for Stuart Fairchild’s future roster spot in Joey Wiemer.
If his deadline goal was “to give this team a chance,” then he should be judged on how far the 2024 Reds go.
The deadline moves he made were essentially “go for it” if your definition of going for it is to risk absolutely nothing.
He essentially traded away an underperforming SP (Montas) to move a fellow shaky starter (Martinez) into his rotation spot while acquiring Junis to take Martinez’s long-relief spot.
He added Ty France to move Steer back to LF, essentially benching a garbage outfielder nightly while giving away Austin Slater for the favored Castellini return (cash).
And Lucas Sims isn’t much of a loss since the Reds will have a glut of relievers whenever Pagan returns.
Meanwhile, nothing was done for the near future except possibly finding a replacement for Stuart Fairchild’s future roster spot in Joey Wiemer.
If his deadline goal was “to give this team a chance,” then he should be judged on how far the 2024 Reds go.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
lol. he goes 4-4, game of his life.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
I agree, but he won't be fired.
He did what the Castellini's wanted. Get rid of some salary (Montas, Slater and Sims) but make it look like you are "going for it" by adding cheap names like France and Weimer so that you can dupe some fans into thinking you made some "buyer" moves at the deadline.
Pirates showed you how to do it. They added lefty bullpen help (Beeks and Walker), and the Outfielder the Reds needed (Bryan De La Cruz).
14Red
Well-known member
Oh Espinal....stuck it too me last night!!!
That's baseball! Now watch, he won't be in the lineup the next few days.
14Red
Well-known member
Ok, let's back up a second. I don't know of anyone who was guaranteeing playoffs for 2024.... let's review....
- Going into the season, WITH, a full squad, we hoped if all things went well, this team would make the playoffs (remember this)
- Before the season even starts... Matt McLain, late start, injures shoulder, shoulder surgery MAY be back by August
- Noeveli Marte, suspended 80 games for PED use, out untl July
- Nick Lodolo does not start the season in the rotation
- TJ Friedl - starting centerfielder, leadoff man, out until May, comes back, plays a month, then misses a month. Friedl has played in only 32 games this season
- Chrsitian Encarnacion-Strand played 29 games this season.
You are correct, nothing was done for the near future because it's not necessary, and to make it happen you would have had to mortgage the future.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
That's a lot of typing for all the history that everyone on this thread knows.
Also, no one suggested trading any of the core group that you typed out so furiously.
Bottom line
#1 - Pirates got Bryan De La Cruz for their #17 and #18 prospects. Can you name the Reds #17 and #18 prospects? Nope? Neither could I. Here they are:
#2 - Guardians got Lane Thomas for their #8 and #22 prospects, plus a kid outside their top 30. The Reds #8 and #22 are Ricardo Cabrera and Ethan O'Donnell.
So Krall could have picked up BDLC or Lane Thomas for essentially nothing. Both are very good young outfielders and bats. Instead, he did not do that.
14Red
Well-known member
I have to review sometimes because I think people forget what we have, what has happened this season. I don't know what Bryan De La Cruz could do for us. I don't think the Marlins or Nationals "have it in" for the Reds. So unless you have an office next to Nick Krall and are in on all the conversations, I don't know how you can just leap to assumptions that the Reds are not trying.
One thing that seems to be abundantly clear with the current Reds organization. They want to bring in good team guys. Again I don't know anything about De La Cruz or Lane Thomas, but my guess is if the Pirates and Guardians got these guys, and the Dodgers, Yankees, Cubs, Mets, Phillies did not, there must be something about them.
Someone brought up Randy Arozaena a few days ago. If you recall a few years back, Arozarena was arrested on domestic violence charges. The Reds just don't put up with that stuff.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
All I'm saying is that two other low payroll budget teams made the calls to Washington and Florida and came away with good outfielders for very little in terms of assets. Did Krall make the calls? I have no idea. All I can judge is the results. Clearly the Pirates and Guardians did better.
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Notre Dame = 2025 National Champions
In related news, the White Sox have lost a franchise-record 17 in a row.
AEW Champion
Notre Dame = 2025 National Champions
You say “We have to be completely honest about this season.” I agree. So why doesn’t Nick Krall have to be honest about this season?
They are 52-56 and 5.5 games out of a playoff spot, trailing several teams that just improved their rosters. Nick Krall’s post-deadline interviews all said the same thing: We want to give this team every chance to win. And he routinely cited the at-the-time +41 run differential and numerous one-run losses.
Yet he:
1. Doesn’t acknowledge the teams in front of him all notably supplemented their rosters.
2. Doesn’t fire Bell, who is the root cause of the +41 run differential being totally askew of the win-loss record.
3. Doesn’t do anything appreciable to supplement the 2024 Reds, unless you consider Jakob Junis and DFA’ed Ty France to be appreciable. I don’t.
He admitted in interviews he could’ve traded 3 or 4 more relievers, at minimum. That’s what a realist would’ve done.
And don’t act like the roster is set for next year and it’s not necessary to bolster the future. At minimum they should be bringing in two new outfielders, pushing one or both of Fraley and Benson to AAA and jettisoning Fairchild. Backup catcher needs to be addressed. And a SP wouldn’t be a bad idea given the rash of pitching injuries around the league that mostly avoided the Reds’ rotation this year. And as we’ve seen, they have no position player depth in Louisville, which is why it would be nice to push some current Reds OF to Louisville.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
Amazing 1969 Mets need to lookout. This ChiSox club could lose more than 120 games. Actually on pace for 40-122.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
100%.
And on top of the trade deadline mess, the management group picks yesterday to announce the front office "shakeup" that Phil Castellini is promoted to CEO & President. So the players in the clubhouse know that nothing will be changing in the immediate future, since Phil is an empty-headed puppet that does whatever daddy says.
Getting their brains beat out by the Cubs yesterday, the Reds look like a team that is resigned to their fate. The players are human. Do something to give them hope and bolster their attitude. Instead, management says "you will get no help this year, and the biggest penny-pinching sweetie in the ownership group is in charge." Demoralizing for the players and fans like us.
14Red
Well-known member
Krall is the GM, he doesn't have to answer any questions asked of him. He's not responsible to anyone except the Castellinis.
Maybe the Reds tried to supplement their rosters, but the asking prices were too high
We have no idea where the team stands with Bell, there seems to be no visible measurement of their like or dislike with him.
The acquisions of France and Junis were more about moving players off the Reds than acquiring talent. If France can somehow hit a little bit, he could be brought back next year as a bench guy, but likely not. Junis is a typical bullpen guy that exists in 75% of major league bullpens.
Yes, the roster isn't set for next season, but there is a pretty good foundation being built. Let's pretend for a moment that we are in late March of '25 and the Reds ready to break camp.
Here is a way too early look at what the roster may look like.
Starters- Greene, Lodolo, Abbott, Spires, ???
Bullpen - Diaz, Cruz, Martinez, Moll, Pagan, Santillan, Farmer, Junis
Catcher - Stephenson, Maile
Infield - Candelario, India, McLain, De La Cruz, Marte, Encarncion-Strand
Outfield - Steer, Friedl, Fraley, Hinds, Fairchild
The players in italics are not set and obviously a block buster trade could change this drastically. My guess is they make a move for a full time outfielder. Now alot of people would be very upset of this is what the Reds look like going into 2025. I really feel the addition of McLain, a healthy Friedl and CES, and a full season of Marte makes this team significantly better.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
I already showed you the asking price for Bryan De La Cruz and Lane Thomas. You read and responded to that post. The price was very low.
So they traded for France so that they could unload a catcher from the low minors?
Seriously, think before you post. You are either:
- arguing just for the sake of arguing
- in love with Nick Krall and blindly defending him
- mentally impaired and unable to remember anything you read the day before
14Red
Well-known member
My bad, I need to explain France a little more. To me the onus of trading for France is for Steer to become a full time left fielder for the rest of the season. I think Candelario's knees are day to day, and they feel like they've had to put Steer at first.
I'm not here to defend Krall, but I also do not understand why people get so bent out of shape about front offices???
When a team wins the world series, does everyone immediately point to the ownership group? Of course not. Does anyone remember who owns and runs the Texas Rangers from last season? No. Why?? Because we CREDIT the players when teams win. When teams fail, for some reason people immediately blame the owner, GM, manager. They players win and lose games, it's ok to blame them.
Omar
Well-known member
F**k this team.
Omar
Well-known member
Bc the Reds don’t have the $ to get away with having such a regarded FO.
The GM puts the team together. No doubt players/coaches play the game. But the front office is responsible for the team.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
You posted, in plain English, the reason for the France and Junis acquisitions was to move players off the Reds roster. It would have been simpler to say "ooops I was wrong" than try to backpedal and talk about Steer's position change.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
100%. All rosters are not created equal.
The Reds roster is subpar in certain areas, due to injury and poor organizational depth, and the GM and management did not take steps to improve it.
14Red
Well-known member
Oops, I was wrong. They want Steer to play the outfield more.
14Red
Well-known member
Ok can I use a very simple comparison for you guys who just love to go to the top with criticisms...
Let's say you or a loved one was in the hospital for a surgery. Something goes sideways and the surgery is a big mess. Who do you blame? The surgeon, or the hospital administrator???
The surgeon made the mistake!!!!
Flip to the Reds. If Nick Lodolo has a crappy outing like last night, it's HIS fault!!! Not Nick Krall, or Phil Castillini??? Why is it hard to blame the players? Do you feel like less of a fan if you bag on the players? I just think fans (and media) are reluctant to blame the people who make the errors and just blame it on some entity that is obscure. Yes, ultimately if the manager, player does a poor enough job, they will be replaced by upper management, that's the way it works.
Let's say you or a loved one was in the hospital for a surgery. Something goes sideways and the surgery is a big mess. Who do you blame? The surgeon, or the hospital administrator???
The surgeon made the mistake!!!!
Flip to the Reds. If Nick Lodolo has a crappy outing like last night, it's HIS fault!!! Not Nick Krall, or Phil Castillini??? Why is it hard to blame the players? Do you feel like less of a fan if you bag on the players? I just think fans (and media) are reluctant to blame the people who make the errors and just blame it on some entity that is obscure. Yes, ultimately if the manager, player does a poor enough job, they will be replaced by upper management, that's the way it works.
Youre
Only once the fans quit showing up will something change.
You’re correct, it’s on Lodolo. However it’s not on Benson that he’s in the lineup and hitting .190. It’s on the front office because there are not alternatives. You have to see the difference. Benson, Fairchild, Fraley, Hinds, etc are not adequate big league players. The front office is responsible for them. It’s not that they were .280 hitters with pop and are having poor seasons.
Only once the fans quit showing up will something change.
wolves82
Highly Respected Expert
Of course in that example it is Lodolo's issue, or the surgeon's fault.
What if the hospital administrators only had 4 competent doctors in the entire hospital, and hired a bunch of cheap doctors from 3rd world countries with questionable education? And many of those inadequate doctors had to do surgeries every day? Then is it the administrators fault? YES!
This is what you cannot seem to grasp. The Reds do not have enough MLB quality players in the organization. That is squarely on the management,
14Red
Well-known member
If the Reds were that bad, they'd have less wins than the White Sox. No one questions the competency level of the docs on a staff. Their medical education gives them the credentials to say they are at the level to be a doctor.
I know this is tough to imagine, but baseball is HARD. It's REALLY hard to make it to the major leagues. Go watch a single A baseball game, double A, triple A. Those guys are REALLY good baseball players. ALL of these guys are major league quality, or they'd be doing something else. Some are just better than others. The Reds have a BUNCH of young guys right now, that's part of the plan. You have to live with the ups and downs of young guys.
This is 2024, at the start of 2022, just under two seasons ago, Luis Castillo, Tyler Mahle and Mike Minor were 3/5th of our starting rotation. Our lineup consisted of Joey Votto, Mike Moustakas, Kyle Farmer, Tommy Pham, Aristeds Aquino, Albert Almora, Tyler Naquin, Jose Barrero, Donnavan Solano, Colin Moran, Matt Reynolds. Less than two years ago!
This takes time and Reds some fans have zero patience to see this thing through. You want some examples, look at the Guardians, the Orioles. These are teams who were very young a few years ago and they are seeing the fruits of their patience now. The success the kids had last year was great, but for alot of people I think it distorted the vision that we were further ahead than expected. Now, losing McLain, CES, Marte, Friedl for big chunks of this current season - for some seem like an excuse, but it's HUGE for this young team. All 4 of those guys were projected to be in or around our top 5-6 guys in our lineup on a daily basis. If CES is healthy ( he played only 29 games) Steer is a full time left fielder and Fairchild/ Benson play less. Add in Friedl's injuries and you have two outfielders out.
At this point, management decided they did not want to mortgage the future or part of the future for a plug and play outfield bat to band-aid this season.