Teacher faces termination after calling in sick for 2 days to attend a concert in Nashville, district says

[Sykotyk]

What's stopping you from taking a long vacation before retiring leaving just one week left to cash out?

If it was like the company I worked for 20 years ago... they wouldn't approve the vacation. Anything more than two days off in a row was vacation, and had to be scheduled and approved weeks/months in advance. Even short term timeoff had to be approved in advance to not be a demerit against you. Three days missed that were requested off but denied, would equal termination.

Was a crazy strict standard. However, all time off from work was PTO. Pulled from the same bank. So, if you were sick for a week and missed work but had vacation scheduled next month, not anymore.

The crazy thing about this whole procedure is just... why can't people just not work and not get paid? Take off whatever days you want, you just won't be paid for them. That's the incentive to work

 

[LELL]

If it was like the company I worked for 20 years ago... they wouldn't approve the vacation. Anything more than two days off in a row was vacation, and had to be scheduled and approved weeks/months in advance. Even short term timeoff had to be approved in advance to not be a demerit against you. Three days missed that were requested off but denied, would equal termination.

Was a crazy strict standard. However, all time off from work was PTO. Pulled from the same bank. So, if you were sick for a week and missed work but had vacation scheduled next month, not anymore.

The crazy thing about this whole procedure is just... why can't people just not work and not get paid? Take off whatever days you want, you just won't be paid for them. That's the incentive to work

Wow. I can't believe that company kept employees and stayed in business. I wouldn't work for a company like that.

 

[CedarBuck92]

There's a good and bad to what you just said. On the surface, company's GIVE sick time to employees to use for being...sick. You know the old honor policy. That should not be assumed as MY time. But as we all know, there are certain types who blow through their sick time and never have a bank of hours to have ....for when REAL emergencies come up. You dock and employee on evaluations for not being at work then they get ticked for being called out. It's just a NO WIN situation for the employer. So now a guy like you will ding a company for being good stuards and having a bank of sick hours for employee to use, then get ticked because it's not paid out?? Again, no win situation. Big bad company. And we wonder why company's try to automate as many jobs as possible?

So before you make anymore assumptions about me you should know that I would rather die than call out sick. I am the guy everyone hate because I will show up sick because I was guilted about calling out sick once years ago. Beyond that I think we are mostly on the same page. Its a no win situation. Companies don't want you to ever miss work but there is no actual reward for doing so. I agree that sick time is not a right but a privilege. But if you don't want people to ever miss work then on some level you need to compensate for that. Because at the end of the day, the guy next to me can call off sick a few times a month all year and I can tough it out but we still end up being paid the same.

 

[CedarBuck92]

What's stopping you from taking a long vacation before retiring leaving just one week left to cash out?

From a company perspective, nothing beyond that you are responsible for your job duties until you actually retire. But working in a department with mandatory minimum staffing, availability of the time for you to miss. We currently have someone who is draining their time before they retire this summer. They are taking some time off each month until they get down to that magical 1 week left.

 

[CedarBuck92]

If it was like the company I worked for 20 years ago... they wouldn't approve the vacation. Anything more than two days off in a row was vacation, and had to be scheduled and approved weeks/months in advance. Even short term timeoff had to be approved in advance to not be a demerit against you. Three days missed that were requested off but denied, would equal termination.

Was a crazy strict standard. However, all time off from work was PTO. Pulled from the same bank. So, if you were sick for a week and missed work but had vacation scheduled next month, not anymore.

The crazy thing about this whole procedure is just... why can't people just not work and not get paid? Take off whatever days you want, you just won't be paid for them. That's the incentive to work

Your not wrong but people want to be able to have time off and get paid for it. I haven't seen any yet this year but in 2020 and 2016 I started seeing people "campaigning" for mandatory minimum vacation time in line with Europe.

 

[Round_Ball_Fan]

The horror! An underpaid and overworked teacher takes a day off of work. How dare they!

(she should have used personal days, taken unpaid time off, or just shut her got dang mouth & no one would have known)



Similar situation happened at a district close to me. A teacher had used sick days to attend a wrestling tournament out of state & posted photo's all over Facebook. I believe he was non-renewed & was able to teach at another district (this was also not his "first strike" against him for various other reasons).

 

[Salad76]

Has to be more to the story. Any educator union allows 2 days sick leave no questions asked. It's on the 3rd day you need a doctor's note or some other kind of proof of your illness. My guess is this person has a long history of this kind of thing and even her union is done dealing with it.

 

[14Red]

So before you make anymore assumptions about me you should know that I would rather die than call out sick. I am the guy everyone hate because I will show up sick because I was guilted about calling out sick once years ago. Beyond that I think we are mostly on the same page. Its a no win situation. Companies don't want you to ever miss work but there is no actual reward for doing so. I agree that sick time is not a right but a privilege. But if you don't want people to ever miss work then on some level you need to compensate for that. Because at the end of the day, the guy next to me can call off sick a few times a month all year and I can tough it out but we still end up being paid the same.

I'm not specifying you individually, I'm just saying this is the mindset of most of today's American worker. Is there a reward? I'd hope there is a component of the employee evaluation that values reliability. It's an unspoken, but think about it this way. Let's say an edict is made that staff must be cut by 20%. Don't you want to put the best foot forward so you're not part of that 20%? The reward may be keeping your job, being included in bonuses and possible promotions, etc.

 

[scbuckeye99]

My dad just retired last year after 37 years. Their payout was a small percentage of a small number of days.

Not sure when it changed or how similar your father's sick day pay out is to mine but when my dad retired in 2012 after 41 years of teaching and taking very few sick days he ended up getting a check from the state for around $70k. Blew my mind.

 

[scbuckeye99]

And there is absolutely nothing wrong with this. For some teachers, it's more of a pain to miss a day, have a sub come in, disrupt the class, then pick up the pieces the next day. And is there anything wrong with not wanted to miss work?

In many ways planning for a day off requires it's own day off haha.

 

[scbuckeye99]

So before you make anymore assumptions about me you should know that I would rather die than call out sick. I am the guy everyone hate because I will show up sick because I was guilted about calling out sick once years ago. Beyond that I think we are mostly on the same page. Its a no win situation. Companies don't want you to ever miss work but there is no actual reward for doing so. I agree that sick time is not a right but a privilege. But if you don't want people to ever miss work then on some level you need to compensate for that. Because at the end of the day, the guy next to me can call off sick a few times a month all year and I can tough it out but we still end up being paid the same.

I almost learned the hard way 6 years ago in a hospital bed after I tried to coach through appendicitis at a weekend wrestling tournament.

Will never forget what my principal even told me when he came and saw me in the hospital the next day. At the time I'd been at the school for 14 years and he tells me "You've been taking care of this school for 14 years, maybe it's time you take care of yourself".

Don't ever feel bad about taking a sick day to enjoy life either. Just don't broadcast it. Plus, it's not like the school is all of sudden going to not put someone else in the classroom after you die.

I don't take many sick days. If you go back to my first post you'll see I clearly state I've got a nice stockpile built up over these 20 years now. But I also don't feel bad when I take a sick day and am not technically sick.

Plus, in South Carolina where I teach, we only get $10 for each sick day we don't use when we retire. Not exactly financially enticing.

 

[Bird-Man]

Sadly policy is policy. If truth is fact and she simply called off to attend a concert, I would guarantee no CBA has language supporting that. I’m also under the opinion, there is no point to save up your sick time to get paid out 20-45% at retirement. I’ll take 100% through the years instead.

 

[CedarBuck92]

I almost learned the hard way 6 years ago in a hospital bed after I tried to coach through appendicitis at a weekend wrestling tournament.

Will never forget what my principal even told me when he came and saw me in the hospital the next day. At the time I'd been at the school for 14 years and he tells me "You've been taking care of this school for 14 years, maybe it's time you take care of yourself".

Don't ever feel bad about taking a sick day to enjoy life either. Just don't broadcast it. Plus, it's not like the school is all of sudden going to not put someone else in the classroom after you die.

I don't take many sick days. If you go back to my first post you'll see I clearly state I've got a nice stockpile built up over these 20 years now. But I also don't feel bad when I take a sick day and am not technically sick.

Plus, in South Carolina where I teach, we only get $10 for each sick day we don't use when we retire. Not exactly financially enticing.

I tend to be the type to maliciously comply with something. At the end of 2022 I needed to have surgery on my ankle. I have a desk job. Doctor was prepared to write me off for 3 months if I wanted it. I asked for 1 week off and 6 weeks WFH. Doctor was on board, boss was on board, HR decided to be a pain. Pretty much came down to me threatening to just have the doctor write me off for 3 months while got full pay before they relented.

 

[14Red]

I almost learned the hard way 6 years ago in a hospital bed after I tried to coach through appendicitis at a weekend wrestling tournament.

Will never forget what my principal even told me when he came and saw me in the hospital the next day. At the time I'd been at the school for 14 years and he tells me "You've been taking care of this school for 14 years, maybe it's time you take care of yourself".

Don't ever feel bad about taking a sick day to enjoy life either. Just don't broadcast it. Plus, it's not like the school is all of sudden going to not put someone else in the classroom after you die.

I don't take many sick days. If you go back to my first post you'll see I clearly state I've got a nice stockpile built up over these 20 years now. But I also don't feel bad when I take a sick day and am not technically sick.

Plus, in South Carolina where I teach, we only get $10 for each sick day we don't use when we retire. Not exactly financially enticing.

So let's drill down into these statements, as this is probably a blue print for common thought process.

Company offers sick time for employees to use because - people get sick. Sidebar - not everyone gets sick at the same rate or take time off for being sick. Fact.
You can't just have willy nilly sick time - it would be abused and hurt employee morale. So you set a number of days annually for sick time. Sidebar - you have a percentage of employees who just always seems to hit that number of sick days per year, meanwhile you have some who rarely use sick days. Employees know who does what.
So to try to be fair and compensate the good employees, you either carry over or set up a system where sick days are paid out at retirement or at least reward people for not frivolously using sick time. Sidebar - some employers try to get doctor's notes for absences - Bad idea, so you force your employees into a healthcare system that is already expensive and understaffed, even if they have bad cold or the common flu.

So a company may be struggling along to make a profit, pay employees, put money back into the business, etc. And you have employees now, who may have been there for 20-30 years who bank out hundreds of hours of sick time and there's this financial hit to the company when that retiree goes out the door. The company has to account for this in budgeting purposes because it's a potential expense.

These are just a few of the HR/ accounting nighmares that go into something as simple as people who just "take" sick days.

 

[CedarBuck92]

So let's drill down into these statements, as this is probably a blue print for common thought process.

Company offers sick time for employees to use because - people get sick. Sidebar - not everyone gets sick at the same rate or take time off for being sick. Fact.
You can't just have willy nilly sick time - it would be abused and hurt employee morale. So you set a number of days annually for sick time. Sidebar - you have a percentage of employees who just always seems to hit that number of sick days per year, meanwhile you have some who rarely use sick days. Employees know who does what.
So to try to be fair and compensate the good employees, you either carry over or set up a system where sick days are paid out at retirement or at least reward people for not frivolously using sick time. Sidebar - some employers try to get doctor's notes for absences - Bad idea, so you force your employees into a healthcare system that is already expensive and understaffed, even if they have bad cold or the common flu.

So a company may be struggling along to make a profit, pay employees, put money back into the business, etc. And you have employees now, who may have been there for 20-30 years who bank out hundreds of hours of sick time and there's this financial hit to the company when that retiree goes out the door. The company has to account for this in budgeting purposes because it's a potential expense.

These are just a few of the HR/ accounting nighmares that go into something as simple as people who just "take" sick days.

My company used to have, what I would consider, a very generous sick plan. For every year you were with the company you received more sick time. You would get a portion of the time at 100% pay and generally a double portion at 60% pay. If you stayed long enough you eventually topped out at 6 months of 100% pay for sick time. The purpose of this was more to cover employees for surgeries and other longer term absences. Needless to say people abused they system so it went away. All employees received 8 sick days a year regardless of Time of Service. This led to many a debate of if it was appropriate to just burn the last of your sick day at the end of the year.

We've now moved to a straight PTO system for hourly employees. So its up to them how they want to use that time. Hopefully, most of them schedule their time out instead of using the entire allotment for call offs.

 

[14Red]

My company used to have, what I would consider, a very generous sick plan. For every year you were with the company you received more sick time. You would get a portion of the time at 100% pay and generally a double portion at 60% pay. If you stayed long enough you eventually topped out at 6 months of 100% pay for sick time. The purpose of this was more to cover employees for surgeries and other longer term absences. Needless to say people abused they system so it went away. All employees received 8 sick days a year regardless of Time of Service. This led to many a debate of if it was appropriate to just burn the last of your sick day at the end of the year.

We've now moved to a straight PTO system for hourly employees. So its up to them how they want to use that time. Hopefully, most of them schedule their time out instead of using the entire allotment for call offs.

At the end of the day the employer gets screwed because some people are going to take off every minute they possibly can without getting docked. And you nailed it 1000%. Your company had a GREAT sick pay plan, but employees will just try to circumvent the system any way possible. And again the company needs the employee so they'll put up with all kinds of crap because there is just not that many good employees out there. It's really too bad. Few ever stand up for the company.

 

[CedarBuck92]

At the end of the day the employer gets screwed because some people are going to take off every minute they possibly can without getting docked. And you nailed it 1000%. Your company had a GREAT sick pay plan, but employees will just try to circumvent the system any way possible. And again the company needs the employee so they'll put up with all kinds of crap because there is just not that many good employees out there. It's really too bad. Few ever stand up for the company.

The issue I always had with it was management started approaching it like every call off was a lie regardless of who it came from. So the person who used a bunch of sick time every year and the person who calls off once every couple of years were being treated the same.

 

[14Red]

The issue I always had with it was management started approaching it like every call off was a lie regardless of who it came from. So the person who used a bunch of sick time every year and the person who calls off once every couple of years were being treated the same.

And this is one of those inconsistencies in management that drive people crazy. I mean I'm sure the employee's direct supervisor knows the real score on what's going on. And not all can be equal, as much as we want it to be. Some are more prone to sickness, or have dependents who rely on them when they are sick (parents/ kids) so it's never a one size fits all situation. Obviously Monday/ Friday call offs are suspicious and around holidays.

 

[Salad76]

Not sure when it changed or how similar your father's sick day pay out is to mine but when my dad retired in 2012 after 41 years of teaching and taking very few sick days he ended up getting a check from the state for around $70k. Blew my mind.

It was shortly after that time that things changed. I worked with a guy that got around 60K. His name was Jim. We call it the Jim rule.

 

[14Red]

Not sure when it changed or how similar your father's sick day pay out is to mine but when my dad retired in 2012 after 41 years of teaching and taking very few sick days he ended up getting a check from the state for around $70k. Blew my mind.

I think you answered your own question. You give someone a year's salary walking out the door and that's an incredible burden on the school district to absorb. Fair is fair and God bless your Dad for not using much sick time, but it's hard to believe whoever set this up originally had any foresight into the potential cost to the district. Not a fan of the use it or lose it philosophy, so I feel a reasonable cap on the total is the best way to go.

 

[Salad76]

I think you answered your own question. You give someone a year's salary walking out the door and that's an incredible burden on the school district to absorb. Fair is fair and God bless your Dad for not using much sick time, but it's hard to believe whoever set this up originally had any foresight into the potential cost to the district. Not a fan of the use it or lose it philosophy, so I feel a reasonable cap on the total is the best way to go.

Anymore it's broken down so people don't get nearly as much. I think you cap out at 25% for sick time at most places.

Also it should be noted that any place that gives PTO is expected to keep money in an escrow account to cover all that PTO at any given time.

So whether you retire with 1 hour of sick time or 5,000 hours that money should already be there.

 

[14Red]

Anymore it's broken down so people don't get nearly as much. I think you cap out at 25% for sick time at most places.

Also it should be noted that any place that gives PTO is expected to keep money in an escrow account to cover all that PTO at any given time.

So whether you retire with 1 hour of sick time or 5,000 hours that money should already be there.

No doubt, it has to be accounted for.

 

[14Red]

My guess is there is more to this story than just getting rid of the teacher. If this was a top notch teacher - as hard as it is to find and keep good teachers, this would had never been a story to begin with.

As expected, there was more to this story. Apparently, the media got access of her personnel file and she is a chronic abuser of her sick time and other PTO. This year, she ran out of her time off by February. Her district allows 20 sick days per year, and 3 personal days. She regularly burns through this, I guess she called in sick every Friday last September. My guess is even the teacher's union is probably ticked at her as well. You fight and negotiate for these benefits and this is clearly an abuse of the time. Anyone that's ever managed people knows this is a nightmare to manage.

 

[Zunardo]

As expected, there was more to this story. Apparently, the media got access of her personnel file and she is a chronic abuser of her sick time and other PTO. This year, she ran out of her time off by February. Her district allows 20 sick days per year, and 3 personal days. She regularly burns through this, I guess she called in sick every Friday last September. My guess is even the teacher's union is probably ticked at her as well. You fight and negotiate for these benefits and this is clearly an abuse of the time. Anyone that's ever managed people knows this is a nightmare to manage.

Yes, that does make her situation a bit more clear.

Not sure if below is the same link you saw, but it says she was originally placed on paid administrative leave, but refused to speak at a pre-disciplinary meeting, and that's why they changed her status to un-paid leave. So now she wants a chance to tell her side of the story, and the BOE has put their decision on hold as to whether to dismiss her. Should prolong the soap opera for a few more weeks at least.

Teacher facing termination for allegedly attending Nashville concert sent co-workers photo, texts

Eileen Washburn has frequent absences from school but this time district officials say she went too far

www.fox19.com

 

[CedarBuck92]

As expected, there was more to this story. Apparently, the media got access of her personnel file and she is a chronic abuser of her sick time and other PTO. This year, she ran out of her time off by February. Her district allows 20 sick days per year, and 3 personal days. She regularly burns through this, I guess she called in sick every Friday last September. My guess is even the teacher's union is probably ticked at her as well. You fight and negotiate for these benefits and this is clearly an abuse of the time. Anyone that's ever managed people knows this is a nightmare to manage.

This is the kind of thing that leads to really strict attendance policy that punishes innocent parties.

 

[14Red]

Yes, that does make her situation a bit more clear.

Not sure if below is the same link you saw, but it says she was originally placed on paid administrative leave, but refused to speak at a pre-disciplinary meeting, and that's why they changed her status to un-paid leave. So now she wants a chance to tell her side of the story, and the BOE has put their decision on hold as to whether to dismiss her. Should prolong the soap opera for a few more weeks at least.

Teacher facing termination for allegedly attending Nashville concert sent co-workers photo, texts

Eileen Washburn has frequent absences from school but this time district officials say she went too far

www.fox19.com

Boy wouldn't it had been nice to know all of this before the first article came out? And how can she be on the board? Seems like a conflict of interest.

 

[14Red]

This is the kind of thing that leads to really strict attendance policy that punishes innocent parties.

BINGO!!!! But isn't that was handbooks and policies are all about? The 5-10% that don't follow rules?

Look, I get someone getting 15 sick days a year, especially a teacher who's always around sick kids and many of whom have kids of their own and have to take sick days with kids. This seems pretty clear, she was abusing the system, has been and got caught. Not sure why a referee is being brought in. I mean why have a school board if you're not going to give them authority? The superintendent made the initial determination. I wonder what the schools union rep is thinking. This is actually why unions are bad. It's protecting a bad apple who probably should had been gone anyway.

 

[LELL]

Boy wouldn't it had been nice to know all of this before the first article came out? And how can she be on the board? Seems like a conflict of interest.

Nope, she's a Democrat!

 

[Thavoice]

As expected, there was more to this story. Apparently, the media got access of her personnel file and she is a chronic abuser of her sick time and other PTO. This year, she ran out of her time off by February. Her district allows 20 sick days per year, and 3 personal days. She regularly burns through this, I guess she called in sick every Friday last September. My guess is even the teacher's union is probably ticked at her as well. You fight and negotiate for these benefits and this is clearly an abuse of the time. Anyone that's ever managed people knows this is a nightmare to manage.

Hence the saying 'This is why we cant have nice things"!

There is ALWAYS more to the story! Most times the headline and initial story is to get your article noticed!

I pretty much expected it to be the case that she routinely burned through her time.

There seem to be two types of people:
Those who use all their time and leave themselves vulnerable if something happens and if I had to make a guess, their bank accounts look similiar to their available leave/sick time!

and those who see a 'use for lose' balance for leave/vacation time each year.

I think I can rollover 120 hours of leave/year and typically have that each year as a must use.

As expected, there was more to this story. Apparently, the media got access of her personnel file and she is a chronic abuser of her sick time and other PTO. This year, she ran out of her time off by February. Her district allows 20 sick days per year, and 3 personal days. She regularly burns through this, I guess she called in sick every Friday last September. My guess is even the teacher's union is probably ticked at her as well. You fight and negotiate for these benefits and this is clearly an abuse of the time. Anyone that's ever managed people knows this is a nightmare to manage.

 

[Zunardo]

And how can she be on the board? Seems like a conflict of interest.

Catches the eye, doesn't it? Actually, teachers are permitted to serve on a BOE provided they don't teach there. Probably not a common situation. We have one on our local board - she lives in our district, but teaches in a different one.

On the pro side, it gives them a unique perspective and insight into the issues that face districts and students. The caution is they have to remember to take off their union hat and don a management chapeau while working as a BOE member.