cant disagree with any of thatJMO: I don't think you could possibly have more stalling in college wrestling ... the very existence of riding time ensures stalling. I think takedowns should be rewarded by more than 1 point greater than an escape, so I like the 3-pt TD. I've seen way too many HS matches where one guy gets 3 TDs and the other guys gets 4 escapes ... and it's a close match!! It's a one-move match!! Then the ref starts warning the guy who has generated ALL of the offense for stalling. IMO, if the TD battle is 3-0, and the non-offensive guy also has NO reversals and NO back points (i.e., no offense of any type), it should NOT be a close match.
While college folkstyle wrestling is not necessarily intended to be a "feeder" to international wrestling, I do like moving folkstyle toward FS, and this does that by emphasizing TDs and not mat wrestling. I would much rather watch guys trying to get TDs versus sitting on an ankle and riding.
I agree with the point that, in college, 3+4+1 equals match over. My fix would be eliminate the riding time and cap back points at 3. Then it's "only" 6-0, and the losing wrestler still has a chance if he can get a couple 3-pt TDs of his own.
I like the potential for 3 point takedowns in HS for all those reasons. I hate watching matches where someone is getting "dominated", but the "trade 2 for 1" leaves the match within reach for some surprise back points. I guess it could go either way - if someone can defend back points or a pin long enough, they are never really out of it if they catch the other wrestler in a mistake. Just seems unfair to the wrestler who has possibly had control 90% of the match to leave it within reach of anything besides a pin. I know the answer, but I always wonder why a reversal can't be 3 points, which would include the escape point. I find a reversal much more impressive than an escape and a quick takedown.JMO: I don't think you could possibly have more stalling in college wrestling ... the very existence of riding time ensures stalling. I think takedowns should be rewarded by more than 1 point greater than an escape, so I like the 3-pt TD. I've seen way too many HS matches where one guy gets 3 TDs and the other guys gets 4 escapes ... and it's a close match!! It's a one-move match!! Then the ref starts warning the guy who has generated ALL of the offense for stalling. IMO, if the TD battle is 3-0, and the non-offensive guy also has NO reversals and NO back points (i.e., no offense of any type), it should NOT be a close match.
While college folkstyle wrestling is not necessarily intended to be a "feeder" to international wrestling, I do like moving folkstyle toward FS, and this does that by emphasizing TDs and not mat wrestling. I would much rather watch guys trying to get TDs versus sitting on an ankle and riding.
I agree with the point that, in college, 3+4+1 equals match over. My fix would be eliminate the riding time and cap back points at 3. Then it's "only" 6-0, and the losing wrestler still has a chance if he can get a couple 3-pt TDs of his own.
Isn't the US the only place where Folkstyle - as we define it - is wrestled? I don't think there is another style outside the US that is similar to what is wrestled in grade school through college in the USA. That being the case, why not move it closer to the international Freestyle wrestling. I like the idea of riding time being allowed for no more than 30 seconds at a time. You still need to learn to turn someone and also to prevent being turned on the bottom, you are just allowed more time than in freestyle. On the other hand, Freestyle competitions have to look more closely at what they are allowing and scoring as back exposures. It's gotten ridiculous - and the replays are taking up to 3-4 minutes to get a decision on the scoring.To much like freestyle, guys need to learn top/bottom
Agree with some criticism of current FS exposure rules. The rules have changed over the years, but at one time the rules were:Isn't the US the only place where Folkstyle - as we define it - is wrestled? I don't think there is another style outside the US that is similar to what is wrestled in grade school through college in the USA. That being the case, why not move it closer to the international Freestyle wrestling. I like the idea of riding time being allowed for no more than 30 seconds at a time. You still need to learn to turn someone and also to prevent being turned on the bottom, you are just allowed more time than in freestyle. On the other hand, Freestyle competitions have to look more closely at what they are allowing and scoring as back exposures. It's gotten ridiculous - and the replays are taking up to 3-4 minutes to get a decision on the scoring.
Hint: Don't listen to the commentators. Part of their job is to create controversy.Any sport that consistently causes chaos with the scoring should not be introduced to youth, high school or college.
When the commentators say this and another says that, then the refs say something else, then he has to look at the side judge to get confirmation, then takes 5 mins to look at the tape and come up with something that we all scratch our heads, then it’s not good.
If you want to wrestle freestyle, then you may.
But don’t try to make folkstyle more like freestyle.
I do not know of a single official who wants to go OT on a stalling call. However to not make a call, if it is there, is not fair to the guy who isn't doing the stalling.I like the 3 point takedown. This will inadvertently help neutralize refs that tend to call stalling late in matches to force OT!
Are you seriously gonna say that in 1 point matches (especially in the 3rd period championship rounds) refs don’t tend to be extremely liberal with putting a red or green fist in the air? I guess the 2022 D2 144 State championship match was an outlier? I’m aware that I can’t prove my opinion beyond a reasonable doubt; it’s just my observation!!I do not know of a single official who wants to go OT on a stalling call. However to not make a call, if it is there, is not fair to the guy who isn't doing the stalling.
Actually no one wants to go OT for any reason.
I am absolutely going to say it. Can it happen? Certainly it can but look at the entirety of the match.Are you seriously gonna say that in 1 point matches (especially in the 3rd period championship rounds) refs don’t tend to be extremely liberal with putting a red or green fist in the air? I guess the 2022 D2 144 State championship match was an outlier? I’m aware that I can’t prove my opinion beyond a reasonable doubt; it’s just my observation!!
I think he was referencing the 4 stalling calls in the last minute.. not simply the last one that was actually made after the match was over and a coach argued for it.I am absolutely going to say it. Can it happen? Certainly it can but look at the entirety of the match.
I think I just remembered the match you referenced. What I remember, correct me if I am wrong, is that off the whistle with a few seconds left the wrestler who was leading went straight backward. If you don't think that the right call was made, we simply will never agree. Procedurally it should have been handled differently but the call was there for all the world to see.
Out of 1000's of matches wrestled and maybe 100's that go OT and you cite one example that you feel "proves" your point? Not only can you not prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, you can't prove it at all. Feelings are not facts.
Put yourself in the position of the wrestler or coach and you are losing by 1 point late in the match. The opponent IS stalling (running backward, blocking, whatever) and the official does not make a call that Ray Charles could see. How are YOU going to feel?
By a wide margin, stalling is always going to be the most controversial call to be made. 50% of the people love it and 50% hate it. However to quote a line I think applies, to not decide is to decide.
Again, I will state with 100% certainty, no official wants to make a call (especially in a state finals) that sends a match into OT. We would MUCH prefer a quick fall or tech fall.
I am aware that nothing I could say will change your mind but it is not as cut and dry as you believe.
First, it’s a fact that stalling is called 3x’s more often in the 3rd period compared to the 1st, even in identical situations. Also, can you give me an example of a match where a ref has called stalling 4x’s in 40 seconds in the first period? Lastly, nothing is of certainty when it comes to the discretion of refereeing. It’s unanimous that we’ve all witnessed reprehensible calls made by referees in the down stretch of competitions that ultimately changed the outcome of the event. The human element of an official defies all logic regardless of the level of said referee, or sport genra.I am absolutely going to say it. Can it happen? Certainly it can but look at the entirety of the match.
I think I just remembered the match you referenced. What I remember, correct me if I am wrong, is that off the whistle with a few seconds left the wrestler who was leading went straight backward. If you don't think that the right call was made, we simply will never agree. Procedurally it should have been handled differently but the call was there for all the world to see.
Out of 1000's of matches wrestled and maybe 100's that go OT and you cite one example that you feel "proves" your point? Not only can you not prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, you can't prove it at all. Feelings are not facts.
Put yourself in the position of the wrestler or coach and you are losing by 1 point late in the match. The opponent IS stalling (running backward, blocking, whatever) and the official does not make a call that Ray Charles could see. How are YOU going to feel?
By a wide margin, stalling is always going to be the most controversial call to be made. 50% of the people love it and 50% hate it. However to quote a line I think applies, to not decide is to decide.
Again, I will state with 100% certainty, no official wants to make a call (especially in a state finals) that sends a match into OT. We would MUCH prefer a quick fall or tech fall.
I am aware that nothing I could say will change your mind but it is not as cut and dry as you believe.
Again, numbers with nothing to back them up. Three times more often? I have never seen any stats that support that. BTW, no situations are identical.First, it’s a fact that stalling is called 3x’s more often in the 3rd period compared to the 1st, even in identical situations. Also, can you give me an example of a match where a ref has called stalling 4x’s in 40 seconds in the first period? Lastly, nothing is of certainty when it comes to the discretion of refereeing. It’s unanimous that we’ve all witnessed reprehensible calls made by referees in the down stretch of competitions that ultimately changed the outcome of the event. The human element of an official defies all logic regardless of the level of said referee, or sport genra.
You can’t infer 100% of officials prefer a certain outcome, as it’s impossible to know what someone is thinking. That statement alone displays your inability to determine fact over feelings. But I am aware that nothing that I can say will change your mind!
ztrain-- -remember the ref yappi clan have never ever seen a bad call. and there has never been a situation where a ref has had a bias going into the match. when refs get caught on a hot mic bad mouthing coaches it is simply a shame that the mic caught it, 4 stalling calls in 40 seconds in the third period is 100 percent rightly justified and refs never change how they call stalling in the third period....Again, numbers with nothing to back them up. Three times more often? I have never seen any stats that support that. BTW, no situations are identical.
I know this concept escapes you but did you ever think that more stalling occurs in the third period? Obviously you have not thought of it but guys get tired and/or have something to protect. That is not true in period one.
"Reprehensible calls"? A bit over the top, isn't it? "Unanimous"? Really? Everyone agrees with you?
I can't infer anything? I have been there and I know the people. I can feel very comfortable with the statement.
Can't come up with your own closing lines, you have to repeat what I said?
With that, I am done with this but have a great weekend.
I am absolutely going to say it. Can it happen? Certainly it can but look at the entirety of the match.
I think I just remembered the match you referenced. What I remember, correct me if I am wrong, is that off the whistle with a few seconds left the wrestler who was leading went straight backward. If you don't think that the right call was made, we simply will never agree. Procedurally it should have been handled differently but the call was there for all the world to see.
Out of 1000's of matches wrestled and maybe 100's that go OT and you cite one example that you feel "proves" your point? Not only can you not prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, you can't prove it at all. Feelings are not facts.
Put yourself in the position of the wrestler or coach and you are losing by 1 point late in the match. The opponent IS stalling (running backward, blocking, whatever) and the official does not make a call that Ray Charles could see. How are YOU going to feel?
By a wide margin, stalling is always going to be the most controversial call to be made. 50% of the people love it and 50% hate it. However to quote a line I think applies, to not decide is to decide.
Again, I will state with 100% certainty, no official wants to make a call (especially in a state finals) that sends a match into OT. We would MUCH prefer a quick fall or tech fall.
I am aware that nothing I could say will change your mind but it is not as cut and dry as you believe
Thinking the same thing.I thought this was a “Super 32” thread?!?!
Bringing it back to Super 32...I think I'm going Sunday. Really excited to see some of these guys, hopefully Ohio can put up a good performance and bring home some hardware.Thinking the same thing.