State Meet

[CincyIllinifan]

In terms of OHSAA current enrollment numbers (9/10/11 grades), the following are the 25 largest in terms of boys enrollment:

Mason 1299
Fairfield 1237
St Ignatius 1133
St Xavier 1083
Centerville 1049
Hamilton 1026
Lakota East 988
Lakota West 988
Beavercreek 959
Mentor 937
West Clermont 926
Oak Hills 917
Brunswick 915
Reynoldsburg 915
Gahanna Lincoln 893
Canton McKinley 872
Lorain 872
Kettering Fairmont 865
Medina 861
Whitmer 839
Olentangy Liberty 832
Olentangy Orange 832
Springfield 831
Springboro 818
Milford 789

Obviously, higher enrollment numbers are a factor in good sports teams, but definitely not the only factor.

 

[billcarson]

Lorain had only 4 finishers at District

 

[kme44]

What were some of the biggest surprises of the meet?

1. St. X. Was expecting them to step up and contend for the title, or at least the podium. They’re usually at their best this time of the year. Looks like they just did not get out well (12th at the mile).

2. Dublin Coffman boys. Didn’t have them on my radar as a podium contender. Thought they’d be like 7-10th.

3. I follow D2 less, but the Bishop Watterson boys getting 5th seemed to catch me off guard compared to where they were ranked.

Congratulations to all teams on a great season.

 

[Newton's Third]

What were some of the biggest surprises of the meet?

1. St. X. Was expecting them to step up and contend for the title, or at least the podium. They’re usually at their best this time of the year. Looks like they just did not get out well (12th at the mile).

I am not comparing Division 1 boys to Division 2 girls but was looking at scores at the recorded splits. I find the split scores really interesting. At the 450 meter split D2 girls champ Minerva was 15th place, almost 300 points behind the leader Lexington and eventual runner-up Granville.

 

[Running Man 101]

I am not comparing Division 1 boys to Division 2 girls but was looking at scores at the recorded splits. I find the split scores really interesting. At the 450 meter split D2 girls champ Minerva was 15th place, almost 300 points behind the leader Lexington and eventual runner-up Granville.

What exactly does that mean? The first 400m is any important 5k race is meaningless.

 

[Newton's Third]

What exactly does that mean? The first 400m is any important 5k race is meaningless.

Gosh, I'd like to coach against you in big races. Getting out, established, relaxed, running without trying to speed up, slow down, surge, get cut-off, and work through most of the field,.....is MEANINGLESS? There is a reason most of the top finishing teams are typically in the front third of the race by 1/4 mile. I am not suggesting sprinting wildly out of control to the front, just getting where you want to be so you can settle into pace. For the eventual champions to be that far back at 1/4 mile into a state championship is highly unusual.

 

[Running Man 101]

Gosh, I'd like to coach against you in big races. Getting out, established, relaxed, running without trying to speed up, slow down, surge, get cut-off, and work through most of the field,.....is MEANINGLESS? There is a reason most of the top finishing teams are typically in the front third of the race by 1/4 mile. I am not suggesting sprinting wildly out of control to the front, just getting where you want to be so you can settle into pace. For the eventual champions to be that far back at 1/4 mile into a state championship is highly unusual.

You're comparing scores after 400m, then changed the subject. You can loose a race the first 400 for sure. I didn't see all the races, but in D1 the starts were good.

My kids ran rather well at State.

 

[Newton's Third]

You're comparing scores after 400m, then changed the subject. You can loose a race the first 400 for sure. I didn't see all the races, but in D1 the starts were good.

My kids ran rather well at State.

I am confused. Maybe I am not understanding what you are inferring. I thought you said where a team is at 400 meters in a state championship is meaningless? I was adding to the previous poster who was attributing St. X's below expected finish to getting out far behind where they usually do, where they were at 400m. I was also trying to show that it was possible to make up a lot of ground in a race. He thought their finish might be due to not being where they wanted at 400 meters and having to work too hard to move up through such a deep and talented field. You asked "what exactly does that mean"? I tried to explain.

My swipe at you was in jest trying to emphasize that I don't see how a team gets out as meaningless. I suspect that if your kids were in the top 3 teams at state, they were not in the last 20% of the field at 400 meters.

 

[Running Man 101]

I am confused. Maybe I am not understanding what you are inferring. I thought you said where a team is at 400 meters in a state championship is meaningless? I was adding to the previous poster who was attributing St. X's below expected finish to getting out far behind where they usually do, where they were at 400m. I was also trying to show that it was possible to make up a lot of ground in a race. He thought their finish might be due to not being where they wanted at 400 meters and having to work too hard to move up through such a deep and talented field. You asked "what exactly does that mean"? I tried to explain.

My swipe at you was in jest trying to emphasize that I don't see how a team gets out as meaningless. I suspect that if your kids were in the top 3 teams at state, they were not in the last 20% of the field at 400 meters.

I didn't take it as a swipe. My point was that 400m in a big race like state all kinds of silly stuff is going on (kids sprinting out). Using the teams score is MEANINGLESS. The absolute times are not.

Anybody that knows StX knows they start slowly. They just never sped up. They weren't the only big team like that either.

My kids times at the 400 were about normal.

 

[Running Man 101]

I have no data currently to prove it, but I think running in the mud at Regional's really impacted some teams in state. I realize that sounds silly but something was just off energy wise for some teams

 

[Newton's Third]

I didn't take it as a swipe. My point was that 400m in a big race like state all kinds of silly stuff is going on (kids sprinting out). Using the teams score is MEANINGLESS. The absolute times are not.

Anybody that knows StX knows they start slowly. They just never sped up. They weren't the only big team like that either.

My kids times at the 400 were about normal.

Now we are getting somewhere. I believe you are suggesting team scores are meaningless., not getting out and being established by 400 meters. I was using team scores to show how buried they were in the field because the poster I was replying to did so as well.

Why didn't St. X speed up? We both know there are many possible reasons , but one could be trying to pass so many talented runners can be tough. D1 boys at state will not just move aside and let you pass at will. Moving up through a large state field could take a lot of surging and energy.

I have never been to the Obetz course but imagine being buried in the field at NTR and trying to pass when the course from 400 meter to the mile is very narrow with many sharp curves and turns. Minerva won by 3 points. I think it would have been tough for them to make up nearly 300 points at NTR.

 

[Newton's Third]

I have no data currently to prove it, but I think running in the mud at Regional's really impacted some teams in state. I realize that sounds silly but something was just off energy wise for some teams

Are you old enough to remember that many people used to think the tough Lancaster regional course wiped out many teams for state? The teams I was around were strength oriented so we really didn't notice, but many teams struggled after a great regional. I assume a tough muddy regional could have a similar affect on many teams. These are just teenagers after all.

 

[Running Man 101]

Personally I like the Obetz course. I would tell you it is very different than the typical speed course many teams ran on this year. Overall it is narrow and has a decent number of sharp turns. Again, I haven't looked into this in detail, but I would guess St X, Davidson and Loveland girls ran on a bunch of speed courses. Obetz (IMHO) favors a more individual running style vs pack.

Now we are getting somewhere. I believe you are suggesting team scores are meaningless., not getting out and being established by 400 meters. I was using team scores to show how buried they were in the field because the poster I was replying to did so as well.

Why didn't St. X speed up? We both know there are many possible reasons , but one could be trying to pass so many talented runners can be tough. D1 boys at state will not just move aside and let you pass at will. Moving up through a large state field could take a lot of surging and energy.

I have never been to the Obetz course but imagine being buried in the field at NTR and trying to pass when the course from 400 meter to the mile is very narrow with many sharp curves and turns. Minerva won by 3 points. I think it would have been tough for them to make up nearly 300 points at NTR.

 

[Mr. Slippery]

I have no data currently to prove it, but I think running in the mud at Regional's really impacted some teams in state. I realize that sounds silly but something was just off energy wise for some teams

That was a constant complaint years ago on the other site with regards to the teams coming out of the Boardman Regional. It was mostly a DI argument since the DII and DIII boys teams coming out of Boardman were winning state titles rather frequently, and they still are. What was often overlooked in the argument was that the DI teams coming out of Boardman weren't state title caliber teams at the time. Equally weak was the argument that the course at Scioto Downs was too hilly for some teams.

 

[Gofast.edu]

Now we are getting somewhere. I believe you are suggesting team scores are meaningless., not getting out and being established by 400 meters. I was using team scores to show how buried they were in the field because the poster I was replying to did so as well.

Why didn't St. X speed up? We both know there are many possible reasons , but one could be trying to pass so many talented runners can be tough. D1 boys at state will not just move aside and let you pass at will. Moving up through a large state field could take a lot of surging and energy.

I have never been to the Obetz course but imagine being buried in the field at NTR and trying to pass when the course from 400 meter to the mile is very narrow with many sharp curves and turns. Minerva won by 3 points. I think it would have been tough for them to make up nearly 300 points at NTR.

I spoke to someone from St. X and they stated their runners didn't get out well and got boxed in. Particularly their 3-6 runners, they were walking at the first turn because it was so crowded. To your point by the time they got out and going at the first mile it was all over. You aren't making up that amount of time/places at a state meet. I like Obetz but I disagree with having a turn that sharp 150 meters into a state meet. All the people on those inner boxes appear to be at a disadvantage. I'd say that all of the good team that fell behind early were from the inner boxes, that's no coincidence.

 

[CCFREAK]

How about D2 Boys Mariemont finishing 4th at Regional and finishing 4th at State! Impressive

 

[Running Man 101]

I spoke to someone from St. X and they stated their runners didn't get out well and got boxed in. Particularly their 3-6 runners, they were walking at the first turn because it was so crowded. To your point by the time they got out and going at the first mile it was all over. You aren't making up that amount of time/places at a state meet. I like Obetz but I disagree with having a turn that sharp 150 meters into a state meet. All the people on those inner boxes appear to be at a disadvantage. I'd say that all of the good team that fell behind early were from the inner boxes, that's no coincidence.

If that's true, that's poor coaching. St X hasn't run very well at State in several years.

All I know is the kids I'm used to watching were about their usual times and order at 450.

You have to run the course first. That's what i said earlier, some of these teams didn't.

 

[Running Man 101]

That was a constant complaint years ago on the other site with regards to the teams coming out of the Boardman Regional. It was mostly a DI argument since the DII and DIII boys teams coming out of Boardman were winning state titles rather frequently, and they still are. What was often overlooked in the argument was that the DI teams coming out of Boardman weren't state title caliber teams at the time. Equally weak was the argument that the course at Scioto Downs was too hilly for some teams.

Maybe, but the mental toughness part of running is quite real. We had two really muddy meets before Regional's this season, so our kids didn't think much about it. When you watched the finish at Regional's it was quite clear some kids were broke by the conditions.

 

[Mr. Slippery]

Maybe, but the mental toughness part of running is quite real. We had two really muddy meets before Regional's this season, so our kids didn't think much about it. When you watched the finish at Regional's it was quite clear some kids were broke by the conditions.

I don't doubt that, but there should also be a psychological boost for them when going from those courses and conditions to the state meet where the opportunity to run fast is rather apparent.

 

[Running Man 101]

I

I don't doubt that, but there should also be a psychological boost for them when going from those courses and conditions to the state meet where the opportunity to run fast is rather apparent.

You are using logic and we are talking about emotions. For many teenagers, emotions trump logic on way to many occasions. I've had to learn this the hard way (not sure there is any other way).

 

[Newton's Third]

How about D2 Boys Mariemont finishing 4th at Regional and finishing 4th at State! Impressive

Thanks. I love those kind of stories and overlooked Mariemont's accomplishment.

GoFast, I am curious. Do you know if Minerva's girls started in an inside box? I can't think starting so far back was completely by design when it became obvious they were the best in the field.

 

[Supertramp]

If that's true, that's poor coaching. St X hasn't run very well at State in several years.

All I know is the kids I'm used to watching were about their usual times and order at 450.

You have to run the course first. That's what i said earlier, some of these teams didn't.

They haven’t?

2021: 6th
2020: 2nd
2019: 1st
2018: 4th
2017: 5th
2016: 3rd
2015: 8th
2014: 3rd
2013: 1st
2012: 1st

 

[Running Man 101]

You need to look up how they were running before the state meet. I stand by what was said.

You are looking at the results, I'm talking about performance.

 

[ENA2]

The minerva girls ran like that by design. That’s how the ran all year. That’s how they won the stark county meet….which also has 20 schools and since each school can race 9 kids, was about the same size race. They seem to train to race that way. Also, the first turn at Fortress Obetz is almost 300 meters, not 150.

 

[Gofast.edu]

The minerva girls ran like that by design. That’s how the ran all year. That’s how they won the stark county meet….which also has 20 schools and since each school can race 9 kids, was about the same size race. They seem to train to race that way. Also, the first turn at Fortress Obetz is almost 300 meters, not 150.

I still don't think that's enough, the NCAA requires 800 for championship races.

 

[ENA2]

Minerva was in box 26…,pretty far inside there. I think 300 meters was enough for them, but racing close to even splits is their race plan. BTW the Salem girls may have had the best race…. For them. And the were even farther inside than Minerva. Both of these schools are in the same conference and are pretty young with one senior in the top group and some solid middle schoolers.

 

[Supertramp]

It's better than the first turn at NTR (in my opinion at least) but I would like to see them do something to improve that first turn. It seems like they could shift the boxes further to the left to help. As in, turn Box 1 into Box 5 or Box 10, and shift to the left accordingly.

 

[Lancermania]

Congratulations to the Mason boys' team & to the Loveland girls' team. I think Loveland eliminated all would-be doubters today.

What Loveland accomplished this year illustrates the importance of a good coach to a team's success. This year's team and last year's team was coached by the same guy who took Turpin girls to the top of the mountain when he was there. He won state in 2001 and was state runner-up the next year (2002) while at Turpin. Now that he took his magic at Loveland, they were runner-ups this year.

 

[madman]

I still don't think that's enough, the NCAA requires 800 for championship races.

It's been 35 years since I coached in Michigan, but there used to be a requirement of no turns in the first or last 400 meters of high school XC State Championship courses. I've always liked that rule.

I also remember a year when the race was held on a golf course and no spectators were allowed on the other side of a creek which meant they could only be near the course for the first and last 400 meters. Yuck!

 

[JAVMAN83]

What Loveland accomplished this year illustrates the importance of a good coach to a team's success. This year's team and last year's team was coached by the same guy who took Turpin girls to the top of the mountain when he was there. He won state in 2001 and was state runner-up the next year (2002) while at Turpin. Now that he took his magic at Loveland, they were runner-ups this year.

He's a very good distance coach. Knows what he's doing. Kudos to the ladies & him.