Staffing shortages, watch this

TigerPaw

Well-known member
as an alternative to testing weekly or proof of vaccine, you should be able to provide proof that you have had a positive test in the past. Reinfection rates are fairly low.

I'm not sure there's a good test to prove you've had covid previously if it was a while ago, antibody blood serum levels dissipate in 2-3 months from the studies I've looked at.

Also reasonable, and I'd tend to agree. Per some type of medical confirmation of course.

I am going to take a wild hunch however that many would object to disclosing any such proof also. A certain % is that dug in.
 

MoeBiden

Active member
Alot of truth to that. But, am curious in your opinion, what is the correct emotion to feel when a prominent anti-vax conspiracist, who urges listeners against it, dies of covid? Or an unvaxed strong follower dies? Anger, sorrow, pity, celebration of their stance? I mean if you're at the person's funeral that's a pretty big elephant to ignore. Awkward at best, no?
"He died doing what he loved"
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
I'll take it a step further and say herd immunity. Gear up hospitals with drugs to treat patients. Make treating patients a national emergency and let's get this thing done. Imo We need every single body in health care. No mandating vaccines.
If anyone prefers certain treatments and goes to the ER for Covid sickness, DO NOT let them con you into being admitted BEFORE asking for AND beginning monoclonal antibody therapy. The Biden FDA has made the new rule that monoclonal antibodies cannot begin to be administered in hospital. WHERE is convalescent plasma ?

Ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine cocktails, monoclonal antibodies all make sense. The FDA is withholding monoclonal antibodies from Texas now. Saving it for someone ? Some "true Blue" phonies ?
 

TigerPaw

Well-known member
Also reasonable, and I'd tend to agree. Per some type of medical confirmation of course.

I am going to take a wild hunch however that many would object to disclosing any such proof also. A certain % is that dug in.

I should ask, since I have never been diagnosed with covid. For those of you who say you have, could you prove it?
 

ProV1

Well-known member
IEW nailed it. It has become so overly political. I do not think anyone should be forcing someone to do something like this. I'm actually against abortion because facts show the fetus as a living being. It is not like getting a mole removed. I also think it is a wedge issue and do not let it drive all of my political decisions and of course is apples to oranges when it comes to comparing it to the vaccine outside of the whole "choice" BS.

When it comes to the vaccination our government, or anyone for that matter, should understand that forcing people to do something against their will is never good. Figure out the best approach based on the will of the people. Americans do not trust the government and they do not like being told what to do so their answer is trust us and do as we say. Lol.

Quarantines made sense in the beginning. Not so much today and they are the #1 reason private firms are going to mandates.

There is a better approach here IMO.
The issue is despite how much people want to downplay the risk of Covid, the vast majority of the population does not want to get the virus. Even if they dont have concern for themselves, they have others in their sphere that they want to protect. People also don’t know the long term effects of the virus and there seems to be risk there. I am not for government mandated vaccines but totally understand why a business would require it. In the absence of regular testing, doing nothing is a loser for most businesses. Doing nothing under the current rate of infection is a no go for the majority of the workforce.
 

I enjoy wrestling

Well-known member
If anyone prefers certain treatments and goes to the ER for Covid sickness, DO NOT let them con you into being admitted BEFORE asking for AND beginning monoclonal antibody therapy. The Biden FDA has made the new rule that monoclonal antibodies cannot begin to be administered in hospital. WHERE is convalescent plasma ?

Ivermectin or hydroxychloroquine cocktails, monoclonal antibodies all make sense. The FDA is withholding monoclonal antibodies from Texas now. Saving it for someone ?
I'm aware, nurses are coming foward. It's the vaccine or nothing approach. Some of non vaxed people will die. Father time has a way of finding wrongs.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Fair points. As long as we're guessing, what % of would-be applicants are hesitant to join food service, high count workforce, or other close contact job environments (that are most in need), due to low vaccination rates and high case counts? Or staying home to care for or protect kids/family members?

Personally I think the correct assessment is push vax rates higher and case counts lower, than somehow convince everyone (against reality) hey it's no big deal don't worry about it. Those are the 2 options.

Another fundamental shift that has yet to be fully understood is many discovered opportunities in the work from home and/or digital/gig economy. It will take time for employers to recalibrate for the types of jobs/environments the labor pool is seeking. The most immediate attempt, and quickest to implement, we are seeing is increased wage & benefits, but there will come others.
How can rising non-vax shot rates make case counts lower when shots DO NOT PREVENT INFECTIONS. Explain the science.

Personally, I can't wait to read your coming deflection, you "creative" little Tiger.
 

I enjoy wrestling

Well-known member
I should ask, since I have never been diagnosed with covid. For those of you who say you have, could you prove it?
You are the problem. What an ignorant question. Let's start with
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
IB, I respect your opinion as a moderate Democrat. I would like to ask, when you see other Dems (maybe even on this board) basically condemning nonCovid vaxxed (I don’t like to say anti vaxxers because there is a large segment that aren’t against vaccines in general, just this experimental one), does it make you shake your head about the hypocrisy of choice? Many on this board have said from the get go that it’s not about the vaccine so much, rather the right to choose.

When comparing both Pubs and Demos across the hypocrisy lines, it is very difficult. Many Pubs support the right to choose vaccine status but not abortion choice for example. Demos support the right to choose except in matters they deem a “public health emergency”. Philosophically it’s tough to grapple with.
He is not a moderate Democrat. I am a former one, so I know. ;)

He is a rubber stamp Democrat stuggling with the fact that he is also a midwestern man with blue-collar roots that lacks enough personal BS'ing chops to keep rationalizing and deluding himself into supporting Marxist scum just to maintain personal employment status at his current level. Little more than a "kept" broad ignoring how the money on the night stand got there. He doesn't want to return to earning as a rank-n-file ironworker.
 
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TigerPaw

Well-known member
How can rising non-vax shot rates make case counts lower when shots DO NOT PREVENT INFECTIONS. Explain the science.

Personally, I can't wait to read your coming deflection, you "creative" little Tiger.

Won't argue. Meant to and should have said hospitalizations. That is the more important metric.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Won't argue. Meant to and should have said hospitalizations. That is the more important metric.
So your support of mandates not only comes from being mired in ignorant fear and being played like a chump, but also from a place of "I'm smart enough to decide what is best for MY HEALTH, but you people can't be free to choose because you are 'dumb enough' to vote for somebody different than TP".

🤡
 

TigerPaw

Well-known member
You are the problem. What an ignorant question. Let's start with

Ok fine. Was just looking to support the earlier opinion (including mine) that proof of covid protection could/should be used in lieu of a vaccine AND in lieu of weekly testing. You're a tough group to appease, but have to keep trying. Something is better than nothing. On board yet?
 
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TigerPaw

Well-known member
So your support of mandates not only comes from being mired in ignorant fear and being played like a chump, but also from a place of "I'm smart enough to decide what is best for MY HEALTH, but you people can't be free to choose because you are 'dumb enough' to vote for somebody different than TP".

🤡

Grow up mr. emoji. I can't even decipher half your drivel.
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
I'm aware, nurses are coming foward. It's the vaccine or nothing approach. Some of non vaxed people will die. Father time has a way of finding wrongs.
They really are counting on "Father Time" with these shot mandates. They WILL drop the mandates once they are forced to make a date with a judge that will respect our health civil rights. They are counting on people "giving in" and just "getting that first shot out of the way" because, "they can't change anything". Father Time is the current judge for shot mandates, and he is asleep in Chambers..... Wait for a new venue.

If you don't WANT the shot, DON'T BLINK!!! The Dems will lose, and damages will result. They will quit the case for public opinion damage control alone. Just watch. Make a paper trail of objection for exemption and RESIST!!!
 
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cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Grow up mr. emoji. I can't even decipher half your drivel.
Massillon schools. We know.

Even every comma matters, contextually, when I post. Try to read me "conversationally", it will help with my legit but odd syntax. I had a HS writing teacher tell me I was gifted with an "amazing economy of words" when conveying a point in writing, but not everyone can read like an English teacher that got her teaching degree in the 70's. I understand.
 

lotr10

Well-known member
as an alternative to testing weekly or proof of vaccine, you should be able to provide proof that you have had a positive test in the past. Reinfection rates are fairly low.

I'm not sure there's a good test to prove you've had covid previously if it was a while ago, antibody blood serum levels dissipate in 2-3 months from the studies I've looked at.
First the published scientific literature and clinical outcomes to date show that naturally acquired immunity is longer lasting and more robust then what the vaccine can provide. For a healthy 40 year old the favored path to immunity is to be infected with covid and recover as it's a very low level threat to that person. To a 70 year old the favored path to immunity is through vaccination as the covid is more dangerous to this demographic.

The drop in antibodies a few months after infection is normal and a good thing. You don't want your immune system going haywire on you. I've posted studies that looked at previously infected people who were able to produce massive quantities of antibodies upon re-exposure to covid. Here's one:

 

MoeBiden

Active member
First the published scientific literature and clinical outcomes to date show that naturally acquired immunity is longer lasting and more robust then what the vaccine can provide. For a healthy 40 year old the favored path to immunity is to be infected with covid and recover as it's a very low level threat to that person. To a 70 year old the favored path to immunity is through vaccination as the covid is more dangerous to this demographic.

The drop in antibodies a few months after infection is normal and a good thing. You don't want your immune system going haywire on you. I've posted studies that looked at previously infected people who were able to produce massive quantities of antibodies upon re-exposure to covid. Here's one:

I don't disagree, I just don't know how you safely test immune response without exposure to covid, by doing anything other than what a vaccine does.
 

lotr10

Well-known member
I don't disagree, I just don't know how you safely test immune response without exposure to covid, by doing anything other than what a vaccine does.
Fair point. But given that almost everyone who gets the covid gets immunity for the purposes of practical public health management I would simply equate having had covid as equaling having vaccine level immunity.
 

MoeBiden

Active member
Fair point. But given that almost everyone who gets the covid gets immunity for the purposes of practical public health management I would simply equate having had covid as equaling having vaccine level immunity.
Agree. The question is how to prove it after the fact. There should be an option to show a previous positive PCR test or previous positive antibody test, but if you never got one of those, I think you'd be out of luck.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
The issue is despite how much people want to downplay the risk of Covid, the vast majority of the population does not want to get the virus. Even if they dont have concern for themselves, they have others in their sphere that they want to protect. People also don’t know the long term effects of the virus and there seems to be risk there. I am not for government mandated vaccines but totally understand why a business would require it. In the absence of regular testing, doing nothing is a loser for most businesses. Doing nothing under the current rate of infection is a no go for the majority of the workforce.
I get that. I do not want Covid but I do not live in fear of it. I have never gotten a flu shot. I cannot tell you the last time I got sick. Probably from licking all of those airport doorknobs. :ROFLMAO:

However, the Covid vaccination made sense so I got it.

With that said, I am protected to a degree and no one should force anyone else to get a vaccination. So when a large chunk of society refuses, we must go another direction. Right now we are defining insanity.
 

zeeman

Well-known member
The issue is despite how much people want to downplay the risk of Covid, the vast majority of the population does not want to get the virus. Even if they dont have concern for themselves, they have others in their sphere that they want to protect. People also don’t know the long term effects of the virus and there seems to be risk there. I am not for government mandated vaccines but totally understand why a business would require it. In the absence of regular testing, doing nothing is a loser for most businesses. Doing nothing under the current rate of infection is a no go for the majority of the workforce.
Wait, you were under the impression that some people wanted to get the virus?
 

cabezadecaballo

Well-known member
Dr Henderson laid it out for us back in 2006. Google Henderson to see why it's not hyperbole to describe him as America's greatest infectious disease expert. We did almost everything opposite what Dr. Henderson recommended.

file:///C:/Users/aclan/AppData/Local/Temp/10.1.1.552.1109.pdf
I just heard Alex Berenson speak for the first time. I can see why he is being completely silenced by major media. He’s about two months ahead or more of reality but he has not been wrong once unless he’s been mis-quoted. He’s very careful about separating certainty from hypothesis and he is kicking everybody’s asz
 

I enjoy wrestling

Well-known member
Ok fine. Was just looking to support the earlier opinion (including mine) that proof of covid protection could/should be used in lieu of a vaccine AND in lieu of weekly testing. You're a tough group to appease, but have to keep trying. Something is better than nothing. On board yet?
Well there's the slight problem that vaccinated people are getting Covid. I pulled this directly from the CDC website "People who get vaccine breakthrough infections can be contagious." Explain to me again why we are testing only unvaccinated to enter workplace. Go to dinner etc....
 

lotr10

Well-known member
I just heard Alex Berenson speak for the first time. I can see why he is being completely silenced by major media. He’s about two months ahead or more of reality but he has not been wrong once unless he’s been mis-quoted. He’s very careful about separating certainty from hypothesis and he is kicking everybody’s asz
He will be proven mostly right when all is said and done.

While he's careful to point out that some of the latest thinking on how the vaccine could be a problem is very preliminary and awaits the results of focused study, the idea that mass vaccination with a relatively weak vaccine at the height of a pandemic could cause major problems. If this line of thinking is shown to be correct we may be dealing with a crisis bigger then thalidomide.

And what makes this theory interesting is that the vaccine will not be damaging us because of any side effects in people. Rather the danger of the vaccine may be due to it's impact on the natural progression of the covid viral outbreak. A much trickier and subtler problem.
 
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