ST X or Lakota West?

No one is muscling Patterson, Clifford, or Klare at Receiver. Clifford is one of the strongest kids on the team and if you have seen the video of Gio on twitter you will know that is some serious business.

LW has some really good players, but X simply has more. It could be tight, but I tend to think X pulls away in the second half. Honestly LW hasn't played anyone all season long. They haven't been tested like they are going to be tested on Friday.
 
It's high school football. Anything can happen. Predictions aside you have the top two seeds playing this week. Personally, I think either team can win and it should be fun to watch. St. X winning will not be surprising. West winning is a mild upset at best.
 
This is a prime example of a "strength vs strength" match-up. X's high powered offense/passing attack vs West's talented and stout defense/secondary. Clifford/Patterson vs Afari/Brown will be so much fun to watch. Hard to pick which side has an advantage there. On the flip side, West's offense vs X's defense, I'd say advantage goes to X.

In these games, Special Teams play ALWAYS has a huge impact on the outcome. Both have been pretty solid all season.

3 Aspects that will determine the winner:
1. Field position
2. Turnover margin
3. 3rd Down Conversions

X 24 West 20
 
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Coeus said:
This is a prime example of a "strength vs strength" match-up. X's high powered offense/passing attack vs West's talented and stout defense/secondary. Clifford/Patterson vs Afari/Brown will be so much fun to watch. Hard to pick which side has an advantage there. On the flip side, West's offense vs X's defense, I'd say advantage goes to X.

In these games, Special Teams play ALWAYS has a huge impact on the outcome. Both have been pretty solid all season.

3 Aspects that will determine the winner:
1. Field position
2. Turnover margin
3. 3rd Down Conversions

X 24 West 20
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You nailed it.
 
4GX said:
So, if even Lakota West players only get two tickets to this game (which is what I am hearing) instead of ~six (which is what X has been allocating to both teams’ players at its stadium), wouldn’t it have been in the interest of LW to allow the game to be played somewhere else with a bigger seating capacity, to enable more of even their own LW fans to attend?

I understand that a school wants home field advantage, and the goal is to win the game— but, given that nobody is going to be allowed to have a roaring throng supporting them at any game this year, wouldn’t it have been within reason to allow the game to be moved to a larger venue, to (at least) get close to that 1500 person max attendance? Why would LW not be inclined to do that?
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There were plenty of people at the stadium last week for the Colerain game, even with the rain and morning make-up game. It did not seem to be a problem for an nearly as hyped game. To me it almost appeared there was more than there should have been based on the crowds I've seen at other games so far this year. But the ticketing process may still seem to be a hassle and limited.

LW has a large parking lot and, at least last week, there was no one collecting any parking fee. There was plenty of spaces within a few hundred yards or so from the entrance.
 
LELL said:
You nailed it.
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Yep, this game is almost a reverse throwback to old X vs. Colerain matchups. LW will play "Specht Ball", attempting to use a dominant defense to setup short fields for a limited offense and thrive on special teams and turnovers. X has the strong offense (although through the air rather than the ground) that is going against the strength of its opponent.

LW best offensive player against Colerain was their MLB. Kid was their best RB when he came in and was a big factor on D. I have to imagine the junior is going to garner some DI looks, at least at MAC or UC level. Also, The MVP last week was arguably the LW kicker. Take away the short missed FG, and his 51 yard FG was a game changer and all of his KO went to the endzone, including one after a 15 yard penalty. The kid is weapon they could play a part in this game.

For X, the challenge is to get to 24 points. Barring a defensive score or multiple turnovers, I don't think LW has the offense to get much more and at the least can't go score for score with X.
 
Tardis said:
Yep, this game is almost a reverse throwback to old X vs. Colerain matchups. LW will play "Specht Ball", attempting to use a dominant defense to setup short fields for a limited offense and thrive on special teams and turnovers. X has the strong offense (although through the air rather than the ground) that is going against the strength of its opponent.

LW best offensive player against Colerain was their MLB. Kid was their best RB when he came in and was a big factor on D. I have to imagine the junior is going to garner some DI looks, at least at MAC or UC level. Also, The MVP last week was arguably the LW kicker. Take away the short missed FG, and his 51 yard FG was a game changer and all of his KO went to the endzone, including one after a 15 yard penalty. The kid is weapon they could play a part in this game.

For X, the challenge is to get to 24 points. Barring a defensive score or multiple turnovers, I don't think LW has the offense to get much more and at the least can't go score for score with X.
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Another big aspect of this game will be both coaching staff's ability to make halftime adjustments. For those of you that saw Colerain/West last week, I'm sure you noticed a change in West's offensive play-calling coming out of half. They were attacking the boundary with outside runs and jet sweeps, running speed option at #20 Jarmon to neutralize him and condensed down their traditional spread formations to create easier perimeter blocking angles. 1st Half = 3 points. 2nd Half = 20 points. That right there is all coaching. Something Coach Bolden and his staff's have done very well in his time at Colerain and now at West.
 
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Tardis said:
Yep, this game is almost a reverse throwback to old X vs. Colerain matchups. LW will play "Specht Ball", attempting to use a dominant defense to setup short fields for a limited offense and thrive on special teams and turnovers. X has the strong offense (although through the air rather than the ground) that is going against the strength of its opponent.

LW best offensive player against Colerain was their MLB. Kid was their best RB when he came in and was a big factor on D. I have to imagine the junior is going to garner some DI looks, at least at MAC or UC level. Also, The MVP last week was arguably the LW kicker. Take away the short missed FG, and his 51 yard FG was a game changer and all of his KO went to the endzone, including one after a 15 yard penalty. The kid is weapon they could play a part in this game.

For X, the challenge is to get to 24 points. Barring a defensive score or multiple turnovers, I don't think LW has the offense to get much more and at the least can't go score for score with X.
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Here are a few interesting facts. The 6 teams that LW played in the regular season averaged a combined 80 ypg passing, Brogan McCaughey the QB for X averaged 324 yds per game passing in the 6 games that he played the full game.( I didnt count cathedral he got hurt early in 2nd qtr but had 77 yds at that point) . Talking about how stout lakota west is against the pass is relative to what they have seen and that truly just isnt much. The top QB they faced averaged 109 yds per game passing. X is going to throw the ball between 25 and 45 times friday night, sometimes from a hurry up offense. Carlton Gray has the unenviable job of preparing his defense for something they have never really faced as far as passing attacks in 3-4 days. Mon- Thurs of this week. If they are thinking vs doing on friday their Defensive secondary will be in for a long night. What is the over and under on how many times two guys on defense will look at each other and say I thought you had him or whose man was that??? I say this will happen at least 4 times during the course of the game. The one thing going for West on Defense is that X has no idea how west plans to defend them. Will they surprise X like Elder did in the first game??? I guess we will have to wait and see.
 
To me this game depends a lot on the LW Defensive line vs the X Offensive line. A main reason X’s passing game has been outstanding is because the time the QB has had to throw has been astounding, and for the first time in awhile, without the dreaded holding calls. There was a QB scramble from the Elder game where I swear he held the ball and ran around for a good 8 seconds before launching a laser to a now open x receiver.
Can LW disrupt the scheme timing? Time will tell.
 
Tardis said:
There were plenty of people at the stadium last week for the Colerain game, even with the rain and morning make-up game. It did not seem to be a problem for an nearly as hyped game. To me it almost appeared there was more than there should have been based on the crowds I've seen at other games so far this year. But the ticketing process may still seem to be a hassle and limited.

LW has a large parking lot and, at least last week, there was no one collecting any parking fee. There was plenty of spaces within a few hundred yards or so from the entrance.
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Well, that (last week’s perceived large crowd) would seem to bode well for ticket availability this week— unfortunately, that is NOT the case— if only two tickets per player are being issued (as I have been told), you can do the math— even at 75 players per team (150 total) that would mean ONLY ~300 tickets distributed— meaning only 20% of the allowable max (1500) but probably nearing 10% of LW’s stated ~3400 capacity...

Had LW agreed to move the game, X’s ~8000 seat stadium capacity would have allowed for more than twice as many fans (e.g.- 15% of 8000= 1200, instead of the ~300 that appears will be allowed at LW this week).
 
2020Dad said:
Here are a few interesting facts. The 6 teams that LW played in the regular season averaged a combined 80 ypg passing, Brogan McCaughey the QB for X averaged 324 yds per game passing in the 6 games that he played the full game.( I didnt count cathedral he got hurt early in 2nd qtr but had 77 yds at that point) . Talking about how stout lakota west is against the pass is relative to what they have seen and that truly just isnt much. The top QB they faced averaged 109 yds per game passing. X is going to throw the ball between 25 and 45 times friday night, sometimes from a hurry up offense. Carlton Gray has the unenviable job of preparing his defense for something they have never really faced as far as passing attacks in 3-4 days. Mon- Thurs of this week. If they are thinking vs doing on friday their Defensive secondary will be in for a long night. What is the over and under on how many times two guys on defense will look at each other and say I thought you had him or whose man was that??? I say this will happen at least 4 times during the course of the game. The one thing going for West on Defense is that X has no idea how west plans to defend them. Will they surprise X like Elder did in the first game??? I guess we will have to wait and see.
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Yes, the GMC passing attack sucks but its hard to downplay LW's secondary that features one corner going to Ohio State and another with P5 offers.

There were 2 separate instances late in last weeks game when Myers for Colerain (who will probably play DI football as well) appeared wide open and the future Buckeye Brown closed quickly to knock it away last minute. Any other corner in Ohio and those are 2 big chunk plays.

And I think X knows exactly how they will defend it. Man to Man on the outside, safeties and LBs zoning the middle, and using a 4 man rush to get to the QB. The only real question is if they have Brown follow Clifford around but I don't think they will.

Add to that a very good front 7 that can get to the QB and defend the run without extra help.

I still think X scores 28 points and that's enough to win by more than 7 but it won't be because the LW secondary sucks or that they will be super confused. It will be X simply executing their offense well and having multiple DI level talent on the field.
 
nptb said:
So you trying to tell me that St. Ignatius plays good defense? I just watched them get shredded last Friday. Lasalle is not a good defensive team period. I don't care where so and so is committed to. Cathedral is the only solid defense St. X has seen this season and that was how many weeks ago?
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Cathedral aside (and X still scored 20+ on them with a QB who had not taken snaps since July) would you favor any GMC offense against Lasalle, St. Ignatius, or Brownsburg? The level of competition that the GCL plays versus the GMC is not even close. No one in the GMC is shredding any of those four teams. The top two offenses in the GMC COMBINED to score 60 on Elder, and X scored 56 on them.

Also, has West played anyone with an offense? Not passing, just an offense period. For comparison, Princeton led the GMC in total offense at just under 377 YPG, and led in passing at 191 p/game. Both would be third in the GCL. Colerain would be dead last in the GCL in offense, and has played an inferior schedule. West's offense would be below them still... and almost 50 yards below last place.... Moeller, who btw scored more against Hamilton than West did.

West will probably stymie the first few X drives, and X is susceptible to giving up an early score before defensive adjustments are made. I don't see West being able to control the ball enough to not give X too many chances to score. I can't see them trying to go score for score with X.

The way I think it will play out is: LW will hold them at bay for a little while, maybe even the first half (17 points or less), but they can't stop them all game, and that defense will probably be worn out by late 3rd, early 4th quarter. If this happens, X's offensive line will take over, and X will just grind the game away. Tegra gets all of the publicity as an OL, and deservedly so, but the X line also has two D1 offered players, and a lot of beef up front. That leaning on you all game is a killer.

X-31, West -13
 
4GX said:
Well, that (last week’s perceived large crowd) would seem to bode well for ticket availability this week— unfortunately, that is NOT the case— if only two tickets per player are being issued (as I have been told), you can do the math— even at 75 players per team (150 total) that would mean ONLY ~300 tickets distributed— meaning only 20% of the allowable max (1500) but probably nearing 10% of LW’s stated ~3400 capacity...

Had LW agreed to move the game, X’s ~8000 seat stadium capacity would have allowed for more than twice as many fans (e.g.- 15% of 8000= 1200, instead of the ~300 that appears will be allowed at LW this week).
Click to expand...

You do realize that LW does not control/decide how many tickets are allocated don't you?
 
AllSports12 said:
You do realize that LW does not control/decide how many tickets are allocated don't you?
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Exactly and with the current Covid infection rate, I am surprised that they are letting in any spectators at all. Heck, they are talking about shutting down restaurants and bars in Purple counties again. Anyway, X supporters keep talking about the level of competition the X has played versus LW and I think that matters as much as it did when the GCL played Colerain; meaning: it does not matter at all. LW is filled and I mean filled with potential D1 players. Tom Bolden is a very good coach, surrounded with very good assistants. The talent is there , the coaching there however, the deep playoff experience as a program is not there... yet. X wins probably pulling away but this match is going to happen again, and again and again.
 
BASESWIMPARENT said:
Exactly and with the current Covid infection rate, I am surprised that they are letting in any spectators at all. Heck, they are talking about shutting down restaurants and bars in Purple counties again. Anyway, X supporters keep talking about the level of competition the X has played versus LW and I think that matters as much as it did when the GCL played Colerain; meaning: it does not matter at all. LW is filled and I mean filled with potential D1 players. Tom Bolden is a very good coach, surrounded with very good assistants. The talent is there , the coaching there however, the deep playoff experience as a program is not there... yet. X wins probably pulling away but this match is going to happen again, and again and again.
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The level of competition is for comparison sake, not necessarily preparation or "battle testing" if you will. I think it is to show it is easier to measure X's ability on offense compared to LW's defensive prowess because of the level of competition. It is hard to tell if LW's defense is as good as advertised, especially against the pass, when they are playing teams that aren't very good offensively, especially passing. It's discussion fodder.

Bolden never had a lack of talent at Colerain, and he is a very good coach. The same can be said of West, looks like they have talent at all three levels on defense, and with the size of the school district, they should be able to restock with kids on a yearly basis. Where Bolden coached teams have had trouble in the past is when they have relied on their athleticism versus teams that are close athletically, but execute better. His Colerain teams were almost always superior prospect wise than almost anyone in the state, but had trouble against teams later in the year that executed their schemes.

I would really like to see another power in the GMC to give the conference more overall credibility, so I'm happy West and hopefully Princeton can continue to build.
 
AllSports12 said:
You do realize that LW does not control/decide how many tickets are allocated don't you?
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Actually, this is not true— LW had the option to move the game to a larger stadium; max allowable ticket allocation (15% of total capacity) is directly dependent on the size of the stadium; X’s stadium capacity is more than twice as large as LW’s— thus allowing more than twice as many people, without violating the state’s guidelines. Then, X was allocating 6 tickets per player; for some reason (probably due to LW’s smaller stadium), LW is only allocating 2 tickets per player; again, this is within LW’s control: if LW’s stadium holds ~3400, then 15% is ~510 people— but, if each team has ~75 players, then at least 3 tickets per player could have been allocated (i.e.- 450 total) without violating the state guidelines... So, LW could have allocated more tickets per player than they did— and they could have moved to another stadium (X or Mason, or anywhere larger) that would then have allowed more attendees— but LW DID have some discretion over how many were allocated.
 
4GX said:
Actually, this is not true— LW had the option to move the game to a larger stadium; max allowable ticket allocation (15% of total capacity) is directly dependent on the size of the stadium; X’s stadium capacity is more than twice as large as LW’s— thus allowing more than twice as many people, without violating the state’s guidelines. Then, X was allocating 6 tickets per player; for some reason (probably due to LW’s smaller stadium), LW is only allocating 2 tickets per player; again, this is within LW’s control: if LW’s stadium holds ~3400, then 15% is ~510 people— but, if each team has ~75 players, then at least 3 tickets per player could have been allocated (i.e.- 450 total) without violating the state guidelines... So, LW could have allocated more tickets per player than they did— and they could have moved to another stadium (X or Mason, or anywhere larger) that would then have allowed more attendees— but LW DID have some discretion over how many were allocated.
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There is absolutely no way West was going to give away its home field advantage and with the district being very, very conservative (almost silly quite frankly) with regards to covid, I am impressed that they are allowing any spectators at all.
 
bomberinmonroe said:
The level of competition is for comparison sake, not necessarily preparation or "battle testing" if you will. I think it is to show it is easier to measure X's ability on offense compared to LW's defensive prowess because of the level of competition. It is hard to tell if LW's defense is as good as advertised, especially against the pass, when they are playing teams that aren't very good offensively, especially passing. It's discussion fodder.

Bolden never had a lack of talent at Colerain, and he is a very good coach. The same can be said of West, looks like they have talent at all three levels on defense, and with the size of the school district, they should be able to restock with kids on a yearly basis. Where Bolden coached teams have had trouble in the past is when they have relied on their athleticism versus teams that are close athletically, but execute better. His Colerain teams were almost always superior prospect wise than almost anyone in the state, but had trouble against teams later in the year that executed their schemes.

I would really like to see another power in the GMC to give the conference more overall credibility, so I'm happy West and hopefully Princeton can continue to build.
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Different kind of atmosphere over at West. Fairly disciplined student athlete. I expect Bolden to have much more success at West than he did at Colerain if he stays long enough.
 
I think it seems pretty likely that West is going to climb to the level of prominence of Colerain if Bolden sticks around for a bit. That’s also likely to the detriment of Colerain.

X just has too much this year and West isn’t quite there yet. Over the next 3-4 years, I think Moeller also re-enters the conversation again. The region will continue to go through the GCL or West for years to come.

X 42
West 14
 
BASESWIMPARENT said:
There is absolutely no way West was going to give away its home field advantage and with the district being very, very conservative (almost silly quite frankly) with regards to covid, I am impressed that they are allowing any spectators at all.
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What is the ”home field advantage”? Isn’t it predicated on having a large crowd of home team supporters there? In this particular (unique) environment, is there really a home field advantage?
 
Will this game be streamed on-line by Spectrum/OHSAA? Because I can NOT find it listed in the upcoming games scheduled to be shown on Friday, Oct. 30, on the OHSAA’s boxcast website...

And if Spectrum/OHSAA do NOT plan to show it on-line, does that mean that X will be allowed to do its own stream on-line (with its student broadcasters) as was the case for all previous regular season (and some playoff) games?
 
4GX said:
but LW DID have some discretion over how many were allocated.
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All the stuff you posted prior to this line is irrelevant. LW did not say "X, you only get 2 tickets per player"

It's a starting point set by the OHSAA. The same starting point that was used in the Elder game played at X. (as I'm told by some Panther parents) Now, once the allocations are met, then additional ticket codes can be released.

As far as LW moving the game, 26 of the 28 being played have not been moved. That alone should tell you something about home field....

Finally, if it's truly about more people, then why weren't you beating the drum to have last week's game moved from St. X to Elder? (8000 x 15% = 1200 < 10,000 x 15% = 1500 ;) )
 
4GX said:
Will this game be streamed on-line by Spectrum/OHSAA? Because I can NOT find it listed in the upcoming games scheduled to be shown on Friday, Oct. 30, on the OHSAA’s boxcast website...

And if Spectrum/OHSAA do NOT plan to show it on-line, does that mean that X will be allowed to do its own stream on-line (with its student broadcasters) as was the case for all previous regular season (and some playoff) games?
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4GX: I'm pretty sure that the game last week did not appear on the OHSAA TV listing until Friday morning. Gosh,......I sure hope it is carried. I'll be in northwestern Ohio Friday night with Spectrum TV access. I'm hoping it will be carried lived on Spectrum instead of the PC game.


P.S. Go Bombers !!!
 
4GX said:
Will this game be streamed on-line by Spectrum/OHSAA? Because I can NOT find it listed in the upcoming games scheduled to be shown on Friday, Oct. 30, on the OHSAA’s boxcast website...

And if Spectrum/OHSAA do NOT plan to show it on-line, does that mean that X will be allowed to do its own stream on-line (with its student broadcasters) as was the case for all previous regular season (and some playoff) games?
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Last week, it was game day before Ohsaa.tv put up the game broadcast links. I was a bit uneasy myself. Here’s hoping we can watch our bombers streamed somehow all the way to the state title.
 
AllSports12 said:
All the stuff you posted prior to this line is irrelevant. LW did not say "X, you only get 2 tickets per player"

It's a starting point set by the OHSAA. The same starting point that was used in the Elder game played at X. (as I'm told by some Panther parents) Now, once the allocations are met, then additional ticket codes can be released.

As far as LW moving the game, 26 of the 28 being played have not been moved. That alone should tell you something about home field....

Finally, if it's truly about more people, then why weren't you beating the drum to have last week's game moved from St. X to Elder? (8000 x 15% = 1200 < 10,000 x 15% = 1500 ;) )
Click to expand...
I know that Elder got more than 2 tickets per player— because I know Elder fans who got tickets to last week’s game, from players (really the only way to get them) who were not parents— they got them because there were more than two allocated to each player. Two may be the starting point, but the OHSAA does not prevent the school from issuing more, if the stadium’s capacity permits it (within state guidelines). X’s does; LW’s might— but they did not seem to utilize that capacity.

The games have not been moved, for multiple reasons— with the first reason being that it is difficult to get another facility to host the games, with no financial incentives available— why would another facility volunteer? Home field advantage is hardly a big factor, when there are 300 fans there, split equally between both schools. It’s easiest to play at home— but, if LW had fans that wanted to attend, they could have accommodated more at X than at LW’s stadium... either way, it‘s not going to matter— the game outcome is going to be the same, whether at LW, X, Mason, or somewhere else.

As for Elder having a bigger capacity, that is open for question— it is often said that Elder’s stadium capacity is nebulous— they have often put more than 10,000 in the Pit (it is a running joke that the Fire Marshals are all Elder grads), but I’m not sure if Elder’s stadium‘s official capacity is actually any bigger than X’s. If true, then yes, I would have been in favor of playing the game at Elder, to allow ~300 more fans to attend— it still would have been nearly empty— but it would have been noteworthy to see X put up 60 points on Elder’s home field (the way Elder scored over 50 there, two years ago, by scoring a TD very late in a game that was already decided)...
 
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