So what ddi everyone think about our new state meet?

C

ccrunner609

Active member
So what are the good and bad from today. National Trail raceway can be a great place for our state championship.

I like the coaches areas. It was good to get away from the crowds to get close the runners.

My kids liked the course.

Traffic was not good. Took 45 minutes to get 2 miles in from I-70. Thought the ease of going back and forth from the camps to see the course was great.
 
 
I think the traffic situation has one obvious improvement. They need a police officer directing traffic at the intersection of 37 and 40. That left turn coming up from 70 is a real pain, but with a police officer there it would be a lot better. Maybe a few more officers directing traffic on route 40.

I completely agree about the closeness of the camps to the course and in particular to the starting line. As a coach I love being able to get out on the raceway without a couple thousand other people in the way. There are some points at which it is possible to see most of the race, which is nice for fans. The turn at the end of the straightaway in the first mile needs to be made improved a little bit. More rubber covering the asphalt crossovers. All things considered though, WAY better than Scioto Downs was the first year. And it still had the intense atmosphere with thousands of screaming fans. All things considered nice job to the folks who got it ready on short notice.
 
Loved the new venue. They did an amazing job. Only suggestion would to work on the entry. We waited in traffic for a long time. Not sure if it is possible, but maybe make Rt. 37 N one way using both lanes and then make Rt. 40 W one way using both lanes. (when exiting the race you would have to turn right....would there be an easy way back to I-70?)
 
mathking said:
I think the traffic situation has one obvious improvement. They need a police officer directing traffic at the intersection of 37 and 40. That left turn coming up from 70 is a real pain, but with a police officer there it would be a lot better. Maybe a few more officers directing traffic on route 40.

I completely agree about the closeness of the camps to the course and in particular to the starting line. As a coach I love being able to get out on the raceway without a couple thousand other people in the way. There are some points at which it is possible to see most of the race, which is nice for fans. The turn at the end of the straightaway in the first mile needs to be made improved a little bit. More rubber covering the asphalt crossovers. All things considered though, WAY better than Scioto Downs was the first year. And it still had the intense atmosphere with thousands of screaming fans. All things considered nice job to the folks who got it ready on short notice.
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There was a police officer at the intersection of 37 and 40 controlling the light from his car. Didn't help that much. Maybe he needs to be in the street.
 
It did not have the feel as Scioto downs. It will take some time to get used to it. I felt like we were at some small Cross Country meet in no where land. Its kind of weird finishing on drag racing track. I did like the information provided by the finish line.

If the coaches and kids like it then I guess that is all that matters.
 
Did the leader of the boys D2 race fall going around the drag strip?

The best view from the entire area was the small grandstand. I think they should re-think the course a little and try to have he part behind the small grandstand be the final part of the race and finish going in front of the small grandstand and around the drag strip start and finish in basically the same place.
 
1. Any place that is blasting Rob Zombie on Friday afternoon is fine with me.

2. I liked that this site seemed more accessible for the spectators. I felt like I could yell at runners from the bleachers and have them actuallay hear me which is different than what we had at Scioto Downs.

3. I liked what I saw and what I felt under my feet when I ran the course on Friday afternoon. There were some rugged spots, but it didn't feel like they created a slowing effect.

4. IMHO, the wooden bleachers and vicinity on the opposite side from the finish line was a great place to be (after getting my watch started at the start line). I could see the runners on both sides of the drag strip, I could see them running the grass section past the 1st mile, and I could see them before they entered the woods and also before they entered the drag strip for the finishing stretch. Unless you could stand at the north edge of the main grandtsand, I'm not sure how good the sight line would be to see runners on the finishing straightaway.

5. One concern is what happens when the place is muddy? A lot of parked cars will be getting stuck in the mud.

6. Another concern is that a little too much of the paved parking area was dedicated to the buses. Much of that area went unused.

7. When roughly 10,000 people are aiming to arrive at the same place within 30 minutes of each other, you're going to have traffic issues, so get used to that. The last couple miles heading into Scioto Downs and the "Jesse" were rarely easy to traverse either. Nothing short of adding extra lanes and extra turn lanes is going to fix that situation. Getting out was easy since not everyone was leaving at the same time.

8. They need to tighten up the area where they let the buses unload before they head into the parking lot. There is no physical obstacle blocking entrance to that parking lot. I saw A LOT of people walk in there without paying.
 
our bus came into the wrong gate.......so if you were on a bus did you pay if you werent running?

We had 20+ kids that didnt pay a dime to get in.
 
GREAT State meet! A great runner's course and a good spectator course. Every kid I heard from thought the course was great. could see most of the course if you moved around. (would like to see in the woods, but thats just me)
The start could not be anywhere else, although closer to the finish would have been perfect. Not wide enough for 150+ runners near the drag strip and not long enough straight to be behind the small grandstands as after 200 meters or so the runners would have to turn sharply or go out a 12' gate.
Rememer; National trails make their big money through drag racing cars so the improvements on the grass infield, the grass ramp over the wall, cutting trees and leveling the ground was very generous.

Never thought I say this, but better than Scioto Downs in only the first year in most areas.

Traffic out - NT better - waited over an hour at SD before
Traffic in - about the same for me - more cops may make NT better
Course - NT better for the runners, about the same for fans
Start/ Finish - SD was a little better for spectators IMO, about the same for the kids.
restrooms - NT better than SD in recent years
Results - NT Best ever IMO - Good job Finish Timing
crowd control on course - NT better
Crowd control of fans... SD had more room so was better
Parking - good but I have 4-wheel drive... SD was better

Now - when the weather is real wet or cold, SD did have some covering for both fans and athletes.... So SD is gonna be better when that happens.

Again, 2011 was the best overall meet that I've seen in 23 years.... An I think all those in the know will try to improve it in the future.
 
1. I talked to a few runners and they loved the course, and thats what its all about anyways
2. Traffic was bad but there was nothing anyone could do about it.
3. It was hard to get close to the runners, my suggestion is they should rope off the area where all the runners pass at the very beginning and when they pass unrope. This would allow spectators to line the 2.5-2.75 mile marks which would be awesome!
4. Overall I liked it a lot better than Scioto!
And thank you NorthRegional for giving all of us updates throughout the season, they were greatly appretiated!!
 
I would have to agree with the whole security issue. I saw plenty of kids walk right behind the starting line that weren't supposed to be there. I'm sure things will get more organized and the whole event will be more polished by next year. A couple of suggestions I want to make is that they should replace a section of orange fencing with rope. So once everyone passes two officials could drop the rope and allow people to cross the finish area and go out to the area where the 2 mile marker is. Also does anyone know if their will be a live video feed? I think it would be nice if they set up cameras at each mile and then have a golf cart out in front and attach a camera to the back of it like they do at Footlocker. But all in all, I think everyone involved did a fine job with the meet today considering they only had 2 months to prepare!
 
dropping ropes will never happen. Once you let them in there....they will never come back.

Not one person should complain about what you can see and not see since Scioto was basically closed off to everyone.
 
I must have been at a different meet....

Most of the comments I heard from spectators, whether it be the kids from the spirit bus or the parents, were negative. You couldn't get close to the runners and there were too many places that the runners were just out in the middle of a field doing u-turns.

The long straight aways around the drag strip and the 3 u-turns are not good cross country races....kind of more resembles a TRACK.

The runners I spoke too really didn't like the course....see the reasons mentioned above.

Scioto Downs was a much better course and much more spectator friendly, even with the diffuculty entering and exiting...oh same problem here.

I know Scioto Downs is history, but this place needs major improvements....and if it is muddy, parking will be a disaster.

2 cents contributed.
 
the crowds you want to get away from.....

ccrunner609 said:
So what are the good and bad from today. National Trail raceway can be a great place for our state championship.

I like the coaches areas. It was good to get away from the crowds to get close the runners.

My kids liked the course.

Traffic was not good. Took 45 minutes to get 2 miles in from I-70. Thought the ease of going back and forth from the camps to see the course was great.
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Those would be the parents of the runners...and we like to be close to our kids too! Just saying.
 
ccrunner609 said:
our bus came into the wrong gate.......so if you were on a bus did you pay if you werent running?

We had 20+ kids that didnt pay a dime to get in.
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The idea was to have the buses unload all of their passengers at the beige building by the competitor and coach check-in area (refer to #2 on your course map) and then have the buses park in the paved lot. That way, it wouldn't be possible to let in a bus load of kids without paying. However, there was nothing behind the beige building to stop people from walking in right there without paying instead of diverting them to the ticket window and gate right next to the bus entrance to the paved lot.

From the State Qualifiers and Spectators Info:

"Meet Entry Passes for Saturday

Passes shall be provided to competitors and coaches according to the following schedule

Individual qualifier(s)—number of qualifiers plus one coach

Team qualifiers—7 team members, one alternate team member, two coaches (10)

Spectators--$9.00 for school age and older. Parking is free."

http://www.ohsaa.org/sports/cc/2011/2011-NationalTrail-QualifierInfo.pdf

So yeah, you had a few kids who got away with one, and I'm sure there were many other folks who did as well. The opportunity was there for me too, but I forked over the $9.
 
greedyboy said:
Those would be the parents of the runners...and we like to be close to our kids too! Just saying.
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I know what he means.

There are times when coaches want to be sure that their athletes hear what they are saying, and that doesn't happen when a bunch of random fans are standing nearby creating noise that drowns out the coaches' messages.




Ironically, I felt like NTR offered more accessibility to spectators than Scioto Downs ever could, and you didn't have to work nearly as hard to get that accessibility as you did at Scioto Downs. Scioto Downs was a chore just to get through the wrought iron gate to catch the action on the south and north loops.
 
Your Xcellence said:
It did not have the feel as Scioto downs. It will take some time to get used to it. I felt like we were at some small Cross Country meet in no where land. Its kind of weird finishing on drag racing track....
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Not like finishing on a horse track, huh?



greedyboy said:
Those would be the parents of the runners...and we like to be close to our kids too! Just saying.
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Were you ever at a meet at Scioto Downs? No course I have ever seen (and I've seen a lot) ever isolated runners from spectators worse than Scioto Downs.


Sounds like most people like the course. I was confident a suitable replacement could be found. I'm glad psycho was wrong again. Good for Ohio cross country.
 
greedyboy said:
Most of the comments I heard from spectators, whether it be the kids from the spirit bus or the parents, were negative. You couldn't get close to the runners and there were too many places that the runners were just out in the middle of a field doing u-turns.

The long straight aways around the drag strip and the 3 u-turns are not good cross country races....kind of more resembles a TRACK.

The runners I spoke too really didn't like the course....see the reasons mentioned above.

Scioto Downs was a much better course and much more spectator friendly, even with the diffuculty entering and exiting...oh same problem here.

I know Scioto Downs is history, but this place needs major improvements....and if it is muddy, parking will be a disaster.

2 cents contributed.
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Everything you mentioned about the race today was 10 times worse at Scioto. I would guess by your comments that you were never there......along with whoever you talked to. You werent within 75 yards fo the any of the Scioto course and you might of seen 4-6 minutes of the whole race.
 
Yes...

yj_runfan said:
Not like finishing on a horse track, huh?





Were you ever at a meet at Scioto Downs? No course I have ever seen (and I've seen a lot) ever isolated runners from spectators worse than Scioto Downs.


Sounds like most people like the course. I was confident a suitable replacement could be found. I'm glad psycho was wrong again. Good for Ohio cross country.
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And, I saw the runners a lot more than I did here. I had to run, but at least I had the opportunity to run and see the runners more. Everything was fenced off here.
 
Not true CC

ccrunner609 said:
Everything you mentioned about the race today was 10 times worse at Scioto. I would guess by your comments that you were never there......along with whoever you talked to. You werent within 75 yards fo the any of the Scioto course and you might of seen 4-6 minutes of the whole race.
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I was at Scioto Downs several times and I was within 10 feet of the runners at 3 different locations, and could still see the finish. I guess I am just faster than you.

As far as who I talked to....are you saying I am lying? Well, I am just saying what I heard. Sorry if it isn't what you want to hear.

Where was there a U turn, as sharp as the turn around the drag strip, at SD?

All parking was paved at SD, fields at NTR....good thing it didn't rain.

I was at about 1.4 miles into the race today, and I was with 1 other person...at Scioto downs, there were always people around......

Again, sorry that I don't agree with you CC. I guess when you asked the question, you only wanted one sided answers....
 
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Random Fans?

Mr. Slippery said:
I know what he means.

There are times when coaches want to be sure that their athletes hear what they are saying, and that doesn't happen when a bunch of random fans are standing nearby creating noise that drowns out the coaches' messages.




Ironically, I felt like NTR offered more accessibility to spectators than Scioto Downs ever could, and you didn't have to work nearly as hard to get that accessibility as you did at Scioto Downs. Scioto Downs was a chore just to get through the wrought iron gate to catch the action on the south and north loops.
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Is Cross Country about the coaches?

Parents dedicate a lot of time and pride in their kids.....I don't think we are just random fans.

I didn't mind running hard to have a chance to get close to the runners 3 times before hustling into the concourse to see the finish. And, the gates at NTR were not any friendlier than they were at SD.
 
After being able to run at Scioto Downs and being at NT today as a runner I like SD more. For me today wasn't the same "feeling" as SD had. Today just felt like another race and not a state meet. Also the overflow parking was way far away from the course. Even though there are a lot of bad things there's also a lot of good. I think after a few years they will have everything figured out and everything will be good.
 
ccrunner609 said:
dropping ropes will never happen. Once you let them in there....they will never come back.

Not one person should complain about what you can see and not see since Scioto was basically closed off to everyone.
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Wouldnt' everyone who goes over to watch that part of the race sprint over to see the finish? I dont think it'd be a problem at all
 
ccrunner609 said:
dropping ropes will never happen. Once you let them in there....they will never come back.

Not one person should complain about what you can see and not see since Scioto was basically closed off to everyone.
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At Scioto i saw almost the whole race. You watch them start then you go out and watch them on one side. Then you go back in watch there then run out to other side. Then I ran back in for finish.

Also I think when the runners need the fans the most is the 3rd mile and nobody can even go out there.
 
I think most runners liked the course today but there needs to be a lot of work done to make the course more accessable to the spectators. It was fine for coaches with their passes but assistants and others with out passes really couldn't see much of the race. You had to pick what part(s) you wanted to see. At Scioto you could move around and see most of the race. With some work they could fence off sections and allow spectators out near the course throughout most of it. It could be done with gates and marshalls at those gates. If you have ever been to the NCAA's at Indiana State you would understand how easily this could be done and how much nicer it would be for spectators. All-in-all things went well for the first time there but I'm glad it wasn't raining/muddy.
 
On Friday I felt like we were welcome to the facilities. National Trail had people around the course, music playing and a person to meet our team at the gate. Never received any of that at Scioto Downs. Conditions were also sanitary, no bird feces all over the grandstand. I think that says a lot of what Scioto Downs thought about hosting the meet.

Saturday was a bit of a mess getting to the track. It has been that way at Scioto though as well. Many of the situations could be remedied.

Possible thoughts, make 40 east for spectators and 40 west for teams only and make it two lanes going in the single direction.

Would it also be possible to have a person directing traffic at the 37-40 intersection. I think that would have alleviated a bit of the congestion on 37 that made its way back to I-70.

Should school vans be allowed to park with the buses. That would open up another couple hundred spots closer and help to fill up the pavement.

A suggestion to the OHSAA, allow the coaches to pick up team packets beginning on Friday and allow those coaches to purchase passes for others that will be coming on the team bus. That would help to alleviate some of the hassles that the coaches and athletes have to deal with on race day.

Another thought would be to move the team camps away from the gates, and maybe limit access to them a bit more. Before and especially post race I thought that there were more people in that area than needed to be.

Overall, from a coach that was able to move about the course, I loved it. It was 100 times better than Scioto Downs where the only place I could give any advice to my athletes was on the infield. Thank you National Trail for hosting the best State meet I have been to.
 
panott said:
With some work they could fence off sections and allow spectators out near the course throughout most of it. It could be done with gates and marshalls at those gates. If you have ever been to the NCAA's at Indiana State you would understand how easily this could be done and how much nicer it would be for spectators.
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Lavern Gibson is a cross country specific facility. Good luck getting a drag strip to take fence down or put it up for an one day event.

Is it possible to compare different states Athletic Association's and their budgets spent on a sport?
Indiana has their state championships at Lavern Gibson AND also had video live streaming. I believe the live streaming was handled by IHSAA, not the finish line crew.
Ohio does not have a cross country specific facility which can handle the traffic of their HS state meet. Matter of fact, very doubtful Lavern Gibson could handle Ohio's XC state meet numbers. Indiana has one boys/girls race- no divisions. Figuring less competitors mean less spectators.

Ohio - Multiple division state championships the same day. Lots of runners brings more fans. Does the length of the day for OHSAA state XC championships mean more profit (concessions) or does the costs per worker outweigh profits?
 
(Forgot to add) Didn't attend the Ohio state meet yesterday at the drag strip, just wondering about the course itself and not the facilities.

Any hills?
Is the course wide-open the entire way or any blind turns?
How often do you cross asphalt?
 
Guys,

Thanks for your input and suggestions. I think that for the first year and really only getting started with construction on September 10th, things went really well! I have a list of about 20 things that will be changed for next year. I met with the sheriff and the NT folks and we have figured out parking issues and hopefully they will solve the problem. Numerous of you had said that you suggest make part of 40 or 37 both one way streets, but the sheriff said that cannot happen (so I think he has the final say on that). As for access for fans, we are always looking to make that better, but you need to realize that our first goal is always to make a good and safe course for the athletes, that is what the State Meet is all about. But I think we have a few ideas now that we have seen the crowd flow and where people were standing/cheering from. And we looked into a live video feed, for the day it would be over $25K for the system and for camera operators, etc. So unless you want to pay $20 a person to get into the meet, that probably will not be happening (unless someone knows where we can get a cheaper system - if someone does I am willing to listen). Please keep giving constructive suggestions. Thanks!
 
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