Pete Rose

14Red said:
Oh Pete, oh Pete. So many things here.
First of all, Pete Rose was a great baseball player. His statistics speak for themself and if they don't just ask Pete, he'll tell you. But there is a part of the HOF balloting that includes being "in good standing". Pete bet on baseball, clear, black and white. Doesn't matter if he bet on his team or the other team betting is betting. He then - I feel - had a small window in 1989-early 90's to admit/ ask for forgiveness and I feel he'd had been in the hall long ago. But Pete, like he played, dug in and fought. I truly think Pete felt he could just sit out a few years, apply for reinstatement - as he has many times and get in. But no. It took him about 15 years of the door being closed for him to realize this wasn't happening, and seeing his days sliding by decided to come clean. To me that's too long. Pete will get in, but he'll be dead before he get in, after all, it was a lifetime ban, right?

Now, back to this incident over the weekend. Very, VERY poorly conducted by the Phillies. They should have held the ceremony, NOT allowed media access to Rose - which they clearly could do. It's a ceremony to honor a championship team. Why in the heck allow reporters to try to steal the spotlight and bring up something that we have no idea if it occurred, when it happened or how old the girl was. So she says she wasn't 16??? This is Bill Cosby all over again. Back in the 60's and 70's these things - although not right - happened. You don't think this girls parents, friends would had been ticked if they knew about this at the time? Why the Phillies even had a presser and made Rose available for questioning is beyond me. It tainted an otherwise good ceremony for everyone else. Why can't the media be blamed for this?

Finally, for some unknown reason, Pete has no one who watches out for him. A few years ago, Bobby Knight stopped appearing in public and commenting on things. Pete needs that now, or he needs whoever he is close to to keep him out of these situations.
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Did you consider before responding to this thread you may be a little too close to the trees?
 
If You Value and Respect Baseball, Can You in Good Conscience Root for the Reds now?

Pete Rose is a cheater. Despicable for Reds fans to defend him
 
NewOldBlood said:
Not sure he'll get after he dies. Shoeless Joe is still "waiting" for his posthumous recognition by the HOF. You could argue what he was a part of was worse than Pete's transgressions, but he's the one guy from the Black Sox that appeared to be trying to win that series.
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Shoeless Joe has also been my bellwether as to Pete's chances.

IMO, once Rose decided to place bets on games he was playing or managing, he cast a permanent doubt over his integrity with regard to his relationship with the game itself, regardless of whether he bet on them winning. Once Shoeless Joe accepted the money, he cast the same permanent doubt. Just like Toyland, once you cross that border you can ne'er return.

I've always appreciated both as players, and I see nothing wrong with admiring or honoring their baseball accomplishments as long as it's outside of the Hall. Not in it.

However, if you want to make an exception for either of them, you have to push for the other one as well.
 
D4fan said:
I thought your response was fine. I just had to chuckle at the fact you were commenting on your yappi characters name basis. Just wanted to see you tear Pete a new one.
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You know, I was in Pete's corner initially, as usual he was very convincing. But even as young and naive as I was, when you started seeing the mounds and mounds of evidence...you just kind of figured the jig was up. This isn't highly unusual for mega superstars. My guess is once Pete became as star, it was a free run in Cincinnati. He could do anything to anyone and he was untouchable. I mean we know how many of these young girls are, they flaunt and flirt and guys are going to proceed. Back then, sports reporters only reported on the games themselves. We've found out over time the old time players were out drinking and carousing all over the country, but it was never reported.
My guess is Pete probably bet on baseball for longer than any of us will ever know, probably evaded taxes as well. Just got to a point where you owe people money or you tick off the wrong people and that's it.

But my feelings for Pete changed as he just continued to die on that hill and until he finally saw he was never getting in, he fessed up. As I said it's really too bad because the Pete that played the game and managed early on was just a tremendous ambassador for the game of baseball. I mean is there anyone who wouldn't appreciate the way Pete played baseball? He was slow, not much of an arm, not real athletic but he could hit a baseball and he played with a day to day zeal that sadly is missed in today's game. Pete often said you DIDN'T want to take a day off because your backup may take your job!

But yes, I was a huge Pete fan in his playing days, the big red machine, the hit streak, going after Ty Cobb's record. The thing that always got me about Pete, and it's even been more since he was banned, he does not seem to have anyone that he confides in. He's been a lone ranger and I just felt someone could have reeled him in a little. I know Johnny Bench and Joe Morgan tried and tried over the years, but Pete wanted to do his thing.
 
14Red said:
You know, I was in Pete's corner initially, as usual he was very convincing. But even as young and naive as I was, when you started seeing the mounds and mounds of evidence...you just kind of figured the jig was up. This isn't highly unusual for mega superstars. My guess is once Pete became as star, it was a free run in Cincinnati. He could do anything to anyone and he was untouchable. I mean we know how many of these young girls are, they flaunt and flirt and guys are going to proceed. Back then, sports reporters only reported on the games themselves. We've found out over time the old time players were out drinking and carousing all over the country, but it was never reported.
My guess is Pete probably bet on baseball for longer than any of us will ever know, probably evaded taxes as well. Just got to a point where you owe people money or you tick off the wrong people and that's it.

But my feelings for Pete changed as he just continued to die on that hill and until he finally saw he was never getting in, he fessed up. As I said it's really too bad because the Pete that played the game and managed early on was just a tremendous ambassador for the game of baseball. I mean is there anyone who wouldn't appreciate the way Pete played baseball? He was slow, not much of an arm, not real athletic but he could hit a baseball and he played with a day to day zeal that sadly is missed in today's game. Pete often said you DIDN'T want to take a day off because your backup may take your job!

But yes, I was a huge Pete fan in his playing days, the big red machine, the hit streak, going after Ty Cobb's record. The thing that always got me about Pete, and it's even been more since he was banned, he does not seem to have anyone that he confides in. He's been a lone ranger and I just felt someone could have reeled him in a little. I know Johnny Bench and Joe Morgan tried and tried over the years, but Pete wanted to do his thing.
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Pete doesn't process information like others. Imo Baseball is the only thing he knows and wanted. The other actions were nothing but seeking to fill a void. He will die with a void and that's on him.
 
14Red said:
But my feelings for Pete changed as he just continued to die on that hill and until he finally saw he was never getting in, he fessed up.
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Pete fessed up when he finally realized he could make money off of doing so as his book was coming out.
 
Talked to him at the ASG in Cincy for a while and as he's telling me stories he's trying to say WAPAKONETA but can't pronounce it.....always makes me laugh when I think of it.
 
buckeye53 said:
I say put him in the day after he dies. That way his holishness is not rewarded. He was 1 great ballplayer, and his stats are most definitely HOF worthy. Reward his play, but not his character.
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then a whole lot of players wouldn't be in the Hall Of Fames.....not his Character?
 
D4fan said:
HOF to me is kind of like National Honor Society in high school. You have to achieve as well as be a respectable person. Grades alone will not get you into NHS. If the person(s) in charge of handing out the applications did not like you, you didn't get an application regardless of your GPA.

I see Pete that way, a great baseball player, a great story teller, but not a very good human being. Being socially unlikable is enough to disqualify one from the HOF.
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how was he socially unlikable back in the day?
 
bigkat said:
how was he socially unlikable back in the day?
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That is an excellent question. It shows me not only how society has changed but how I myself have changed. Looking back at Pete from here, I would say the primary offensive thing is the accusation of sex with the 16 year old. But back then that would not have been all that rare. It was the gambling that I personally took note of, but today gambling is much more socially acceptable so as we look back today we see Pete's gambling as no big deal, but see his sex with a an underaged girl now the leading offensive problem. I saw gambling as a character weakness back then, today it's just something I personally avoid, but get the enjoyment some derive from it.
 
D4fan said:
That is an excellent question. It shows me not only how society has changed but how I myself have changed. Looking back at Pete from here, I would say the primary offensive thing is the accusation of sex with the 16 year old. But back then that would not have been all that rare. It was the gambling that I personally took note of, but today gambling is much more socially acceptable so as we look back today we see Pete's gambling as no big deal, but see his sex with a an underaged girl now the leading offensive problem. I saw gambling as a character weakness back then, today it's just something I personally avoid, but get the enjoyment some derive from it.
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i want to say, I'm a huge Pete Rose, i was a big fan of the Big Red Machine back in the 70's( showing my age) heck I did the Rose batting stance and everything. I really don't know the whole story with the young girl, i didn't have a problem with him betting as a manager, i think Bart G had a grudge against Pete back in the day, sure Pete was cocky in everything he did, but when he was on the field playing no one HUSTLED as much as Charlie Hustle, and was a VERY unselfish player, heck he moved positions to help the team out.....( George Foster for one ).....as a player , he deserves to be in the HOF, and as a person, no big deal, most athletes have a big old chip on their shoulder.....
 
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Given what has historically happened to athletes involved in gambling, a person has to be significantly mentally challenged to get involved in it. To cap that off to boinking girls in their mid-teens when you are in you are married and have a wife and kid at home, your IQ plunges to less than 70.

Let him in after he dies. Include his gambling idiocy and ban on his plaque.
 
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