OHSAA Girls Wrestling: Welcome to the Schott

[@joemariocampo]

That is EXACTLY what I have been saying to people for at least 6 months! Of course, no one listens to me.
I felt that if the divisions are rotated as to who they are paired with (including the girls) and rotate the days, it would be the smart move.
You could hold the event using 8 mats all the way through.
Great minds think alike!
BTW, it would allow for arenas other than OSU's to be used.

After thinking about it, you would never have to break down or move mats if using 8 for just 2 divisions. If you set up 2 rows of 3 with an "endcap" mat on each side, you could hold all placement matches for both divisions simultaneously with 7th place matches on endcaps and your traditional 3rd, 1st, 5th (left to right) set up. Imagine the joy in the eyes of our volunteers when they learn they don't have to move a single mat for 4 days!

Good call on potential for other sites to make bids to host. Less floor space needed = more intimate for a better fan experience. OHSAA could now entertain multiple bids from sites to host the event which helps drive the rental price down.

 

[WishYouWereHere]

Example # 1 :
Div I & girls wrestle on Thur - Fri.
Div II & III on Sat - Sun.

I gotta think that there would be 3 session per tournament (1 on Thur, 2 on Fri, 1 on Sat, 2 on Sun).
Would a book cost $45? And, should that $45 book get me in for all tournament sessions (all 4 days)? Or is it $90?

Furthermore, I would think that Div I fans would have their tournament, and then stay for both days of the DII & III tournament.
But, DII & III probably wouldn’t be able to attend the DI tournament. Why?
Because DII & DIII are prepping and practicing on Thur & Fri before their tournament. I doubt that they would drive from Cleveland, Youngstown, Cincinnati or Toledo and spend these two days at the tournament.

Need to keep it all together, Doug.

 

[@joemariocampo]

Example # 1 :
Div I & girls wrestle on Thur - Fri.
Div II & III on Sat - Sun.

I gotta think that there would be 3 session per tournament (1 on Thur, 2 on Fri, 1 on Sat, 2 on Sun).
Would a book cost $45? And, should that $45 book get me in for all tournament sessions (all 4 days)? Or is it $90?

Furthermore, I would think that Div I fans would have their tournament, and then stay for both days of the DII & III tournament.
But, DII & III probably wouldn’t be able to attend the DI tournament. Why?
Because DII & DIII are prepping and practicing on Thur & Fri before their tournament. I doubt that they would drive from Cleveland, Youngstown, Cincinnati or Toledo and spend these two days at the tournament.

Need to keep it all together, Doug.

Not much different than how the state football championships are operated on consecutive days with their own admission pricing. In the example, your admission for D1/G event doesn't also get you in for the D2/3 event. Just like the tickets given out for participants and coaches in the Thur/Fri event does not give you admission for the Sat/Sun event.

 

[Dionysus]

Makes too much sense Joe!!!!

Respectfully disagree. Again, I am 100% for girls wrestling as a new OHSAA sport. I am 100% against tinkering to a large degree with the boys state tournament to accommodate the girls sharing the venue. Splitting up the state finals session into 2 is a big no for me. The Ohio HS State finals is one of the best in the country. Let’s not screw that up by having 2 different nights of finals.

 

[chidy]

View attachment 29945
I’m gonna say… 12 won’t fit.

This configuration has 31 sections of mat per row which equals 186ft (31 x 6). You would need 6 more sections (36ft) to bring it to 37 x 6 =222ft

There is enough for 36 more feet of mat but you would lose the ability to walk around the one end and the head table area would need to be reduced.

It's doable to have 12 mats but it will be tighter and concessions will have to be made by the powers that be for the head table to be smaller or in a different location

 

[bucksman]

I’m pretty sure they don't care about time savings… they stretch a 16 man bracket across three days!

when i am talking time savings, I am doing the math on the morning session of day 3 being longer due to having a fourth group of wrestling on the same number of mats, then hoping to start the final session at the same time as before.

 

[WishYouWereHere]

Not much different than how the state football championships are operated on consecutive days with their own admission pricing. In the example, your admission for D1/G event doesn't also get you in for the D2/3 event. Just like the tickets given out for participants and coaches in the Thur/Fri event does not give you admission for the Sat/Sun event.

So this scenario will, in no way, resemble what we have been doing so well for decades; which is, having all division run together.
And, we aren’t really comparing football to wrestling,,, are we? No one would ever expect to go to Canton and buy one ticket, then expect to see all seven games!!!
But wrestling fans have always (except when Class “A” was held at the Rike Center) been able to buy a ticket and watch ALL divisions together.
Now it’s gonna change for what???
To let girls have a charity/equality tournament.

Look at my earlier post … almost half the girls that enter a district tournament get to wrestle in their state tournament. Unbelievable!!

Sorry, but your 4-day event shouldn’t even be considered.

 

[WishYouWereHere]

The girl’s Central/SE district tournament.
100 lbs - 7 girls entered, 4 qualified to state.
105 lbs - 9 girls entered
110 lbs - 7
115 lbs - 11
120 lbs - 11
125 lbs - 8
130 lbs - 9
…
190 lbs - 5 girls entered
235 lbs - 6

A quick look at the other girls districts revealed the same kind of numbers.
I can’t believe it!!!

 

[WishYouWereHere]

I thought about recommending putting 3 mats in the aux gym for the girls… but that would take away valuable space the guys needs to warm up.

 

[chidy]

The girl’s Central/SE district tournament.
100 lbs - 7 girls entered, 4 qualified to state.
105 lbs - 9 girls entered
110 lbs - 7
115 lbs - 11
120 lbs - 11
125 lbs - 8
130 lbs - 9
…
190 lbs - 5 girls entered
235 lbs - 6

A quick look at the other girls districts revealed the same kind of numbers.
I can’t believe it!!!

This kinda looks like the sectional numbers for boys. Except their numbers continue to decrease while the girls numbers will continue to increase.

 

[wrestlfan]

This kinda looks like the sectional numbers for boys. Except their numbers continue to decrease while the girls numbers will continue to increase.

by your theory they should just go ahead and rent out the schott and pig tailing off the boys isnt needed. I like it. Make it happen

 

[chidy]

by your theory they should just go ahead and rent out the schott and pig tailing off the boys isnt needed. I like it. Make it happen

Wrestfan-It's not a theory. Those are facts. Boys numbers are declining while girls numbers are increasing. Will girls ever get to the number of boys? probably not and if they do it will take a long time.

WishYouWereHere- I know you love to stir the pot and obviously couldn't care about the fact that girls wrestling might save our sport in the long run especially when it gets fully sanctioned at the NCAA level which will happen in the next 2-4 years.

Boys are not better than girls and vice versa. I'm excited for the girls to have their opportunity to shine and their #s, depth, & quality of wrestling will only get better.

 

[wrestlfan]

It's not a theory. Those are facts. Boys numbers are declining while girls numbers are increasing. Will girls ever get to the number of boys probably not and if they do it will take a long time. Wrestlfan- I know you love to stir the pot and obviously couldn't care about the fact that girls wrestling might save our sport in the long run especially when it gets fully sanctioned at the NCAA level which will happen in the next 2-4 years.

Boys are not better than girls and vice versa. I'm excited for the girls to have their opportunity to shine and their #s, depth, & quality of wrestling will only get better.

No one will explain why fs isn't being done for the girls. It gets ignored. If it's all about the girls then be all about the girls. Not coat tail off boys.
Girls don't play baseball til college. They play softball.

 

[wrestlfan]

It's not a theory. Those are facts. Boys numbers are declining while girls numbers are increasing. Will girls ever get to the number of boys? probably not and if they do it will take a long time. Wrestlfan- I know you love to stir the pot and obviously couldn't care about the fact that girls wrestling might save our sport in the long run especially when it gets fully sanctioned at the NCAA level which will happen in the next 2-4 years.

Boys are not better than girls and vice versa. I'm excited for the girls to have their opportunity to shine and their #s, depth, & quality of wrestling will only get better.

Actually , the area we live in has had a huge increase in numbers of boys wrestling in the last 6-7 years. Why? Because of new programs being added. (Southeastern, waverly, ironton, s. Gallia, huntington, eastern) . Girls numbers are growing across the state because new programs are being added across the state.

 

[bluepride1990]

No one will explain why fs isn't being done for the girls. It gets ignored. If it's all about the girls then be all about the girls. Not coat tail off boys.
Girls don't play baseball til college. They play softball.

That is real simple there are not enough referees and coach’s to do freestyle on regular basis at the high school and middle school basis. As such you grow the sport with the resources you have.

Listened to an interview with lady that was instrumental in girls wrestling in Iowa and that was the main driver (

). They did work with the Iowa referee association and had some girl tournaments tournaments with “modified” folkstyle with push outs and all restarts at neutral. No stalling with the push out but regular folkstyle scoring including mat wrestling until a stoppage. They had some training with the referees at events but the amount of changes is not as complicated as going from folkstyle to freestyle.

Not watched events but can see many advantages and I think would be beneficial to high school wrestling overall but that is another discussion.

 

[GrizzlyDad]

Did the boys state tourney when it first started get a grand stage? No it took time to build up and get to the areana the size of OSU. But we feel it is necessary for the girls to have the venue in their first year? A high school with packed stands would be the better environment for the girls state tourney until they can support their own need for a larger venue. If it’s growing and there is such a need for it then why do u need to coincide with the boys state finals?

 

[Old142]

Wrestfan-It's not a theory. Those are facts. Boys numbers are declining while girls numbers are increasing. Will girls ever get to the number of boys? probably not and if they do it will take a long time.

WishYouWereHere- I know you love to stir the pot and obviously couldn't care about the fact that girls wrestling might save our sport in the long run especially when it gets fully sanctioned at the NCAA level which will happen in the next 2-4 years.

Boys are not better than girls and vice versa. I'm excited for the girls to have their opportunity to shine and their #s, depth, & quality of wrestling will only get better.

"Fans" should not be strong armed into watching/paying for to Girls compete along with Boys, it's ridiculous and only due to there isn't enough participants and interest to succeed on their own. You don't have to watch girls play basketball along side the boys or a ton of other sports on the same dime, tell us why wrestling? . No it's not going to "save" boys wrestling, thats ridiculous also. Girls college wrestling will never be what the boys is, same high school etc. Why isn't girls boxing or MMA even close in fan base? Simple ...because combat sports does not stir up the same interest involving women. Of course there are "coaches" of girls...and the few parents of girl participants that want to paint a different BS picture ...but no one is buying your claim " Boys are no better than girls" bla..bla...bla.... It's being done because it has no chance of surviving on it's own either financially or a fan base....sure there is an "increase " in participants in the beginning of ANYTHING, watch as the numbers become stagnant.

 

[CoachJules]

Did the boys state tourney when it first started get a grand stage? No it took time to build up and get to the areana the size of OSU. But we feel it is necessary for the girls to have the venue in their first year? A high school with packed stands would be the better environment for the girls state tourney until they can support their own need for a larger venue. If it’s growing and there is such a need for it then why do u need to coincide with the boys state finals?

Because it is too big for high schools and such, that was clear last year when you had a division one high school gym filled past capacity for the entire tournament. Adding the girls to the boys helps bring up the dwindling attendance numbers. I know you all want to downplay girls wrestling dismiss it, but give it up. It is a sanctioned sport by OHSAA which means they are entitled to the same treatment and privileges boys teams get even if you truly believe the boys deserve it more or "work harder" for it. Just give it up and deal with it.

 

[CedarBuck92]

Because it is too big for high schools and such, that was clear last year when you had a division one high school gym filled past capacity for the entire tournament. Adding the girls to the boys helps bring up the dwindling attendance numbers. I know you all want to downplay girls wrestling dismiss it, but give it up. It is a sanctioned sport by OHSAA which means they are entitled to the same treatment and privileges boys teams get even if you truly believe the boys deserve it more or "work harder" for it. Just give it up and deal with it.

Don't forget Title IX. Not giving the girls the same stage without a really really good reason could cost the OHSAA millions.

 

[chidy]

Because it is too big for high schools and such, that was clear last year when you had a division one high school gym filled past capacity for the entire tournament. Adding the girls to the boys helps bring up the dwindling attendance numbers. I know you all want to downplay girls wrestling dismiss it, but give it up. It is a sanctioned sport by OHSAA which means they are entitled to the same treatment and privileges boys teams get even if you truly believe the boys deserve it more or "work harder" for it. Just give it up and deal with it.

Add in the fact it was so packed there were parents matside packing heat. At the Schott you have to go through metal detectors. As Coach Jules said. It's sanctioned, it's here, will boost attendance numbers for the State Tournament. Fit 12 mats in by closing off the one end and making the head table smaller or in a different area and the boys tournament will actually run faster and you may not add much time in sessions 1-4. Session 5 will be a bit longer due to awards but not a crazy amount.

 

[GrizzlyDad]

Don't forget Title IX. Not giving the girls the same stage without a really really good reason could cost the OHSAA millions.

The reason would be they have 2 division and our not a large enough sport to justify their own large venue based on their numbers? The girls b-ball was played at St. John areana not the Schott because it didn’t need that big of venue based on numbers, girls wrestling doesn’t have the numbers but by piggybacking off the boys they get to use the larger venue . It just takes away from the boys tournament which is one of the best in the nation. Bottom line it should be two separate events just like the tournaments throughout the season.

 

[MPhillips]

How do the gals wrestling at The Schott take away from the guys wrestling at The Schott and how does it diminish our State tournament?

 

[CedarBuck92]

The reason would be they have 2 division and our not a large enough sport to justify their own large venue based on their numbers? The girls b-ball was played at St. John areana not the Schott because it didn’t need that big of venue based on numbers, girls wrestling doesn’t have the numbers but by piggybacking off the boys they get to use the larger venue . It just takes away from the boys tournament which is one of the best in the nation. Bottom line it should be two separate events just like the tournaments throughout the season.

The difference between St John and The Schott is much easier to justify than the Schott vs a HS gym, which was proposed above.

 

[WGTJ]

How do the gals wrestling at The Schott take away from the guys wrestling at The Schott and how does it diminish our State tournament?

I'd love to see the reasoning on how it detracts from the boys tournament. I'd argue the exact opposite (with actual reasoning). It adds fans and noise to the atmosphere. Makes the tournament even bigger and more exciting.

Also, i could be wrong, but i thought there are tournaments during season that have both girls and boys at the same venue. Didn't Marysville do that?

 

[Cramer]

I'd love to see the reasoning on how it detracts from the boys tournament. I'd argue the exact opposite (with actual reasoning). It adds fans and noise to the atmosphere. Makes the tournament even bigger and more exciting.

Also, i could be wrong, but i thought there are tournaments during season that have both girls and boys at the same venue. Didn't Marysville do that?

Olentangy Orange as well. Ran very well

 

[chidy]

How do the gals wrestling at The Schott take away from the guys wrestling at The Schott and how does it diminish our State tournament?

It doesn't. It adds to it. They are just trolling. The girls wrestling will provide a new level of excitement to the tournament. Where state guys sometimes feel each other out more and may be conservative on the mat. The girls are often gunslingers which may not always be technically sound but does create excitement

 

[wrestlfan]

I love that the girls are wrestling. Long term it can create much more buzz/excitement and only help the over all popularity of the sport. When it becomes state quality competition it should be considered as a single event. Watching 30 second pin after 30 second pin is not quality or exciting. The 3rd/4th place state duals match for the girls had ZERO matches go out of the first period. The state duals championship dual, I belive had as many ff as marches go the distance. On a side note, it should be fs. Blaming lack of refs and coaches is a cop out. Recruit them and find them. I get rubbed the wrong way as do many against it when you want to change the way a boy lists their division and add a M because the girls have a W. In itself is that a big deal, no BUT it's jist more of the stuff going on and doesn't need to carry over.

 

[WishYouWereHere]

I'd love to see the reasoning on how it detracts from the boys tournament. I'd argue the exact opposite (with actual reasoning). It adds fans and noise to the atmosphere. Makes the tournament even bigger and more exciting.

Also, i could be wrong, but i thought there are tournaments during season that have both girls and boys at the same venue. Didn't Marysville do that?

OHSAA could’ve added more numbers to the state tournament by making each bracket a 20-man bracket by including the district 5th placer.
Imagine all the deserving young men that we have had that just missed making it to state.
Some of your best wrestlers may have placed 5th and you felt really bad for him.
They deserve going to the Schott more than a girl that placed at a district with only 5 girls in her weight class.

 

[Jim Behrens]

. Blaming lack of refs and coaches is a cop out. Recruit them and find them.

A cop out?? You think it is easy to find them??
I can't speak to ease of finding coaches but I can very definitely speak to finding new officials. If you think it is so easy I would invite you to give recruiting a try. Actually, better than that, why not become an official yourself? You can contact me directly to get you started but I am fairly confident that all I will hear is excuses as to why you can't do it.
To give you some perspective, my Association probably averages 4 or 5 new officials per year. If even one of them is still active 3 years later, we are lucky. Lots of reasons of course. Lack of pay, it wasn't what they expected, family or job responsibilities, fan abuse, etc. Rarely is it coaching abuse as most coaches understand that it is hard, mistakes can/will be made, and they need officials for a fair sport. IOW, most coaches are good with the worst ones being (parent/coaches) at the youth level.
Making it FS brings another issue into the mix. While I do believe this is the direction the girls sport should go, I don't see it happening that way.
FS officials are smaller in number than we are and are severely underpaid for what they do. I can provide you with the proper person to contact if you want to become a FS official.
To close, I once again extend an invitation to contact me directly to get you started on having the best seat in the house.
Your move.
Jim

 

[chidy]

A cop out?? You think it is easy to find them??
I can't speak to ease of finding coaches but I can very definitely speak to finding new officials. If you think it is so easy I would invite you to give recruiting a try. Actually, better than that, why not become an official yourself? You can contact me directly to get you started but I am fairly confident that all I will hear is excuses as to why you can't do it.
To give you some perspective, my Association probably averages 4 or 5 new officials per year. If even one of them is still active 3 years later, we are lucky. Lots of reasons of course. Lack of pay, it wasn't what they expected, family or job responsibilities, fan abuse, etc. Rarely is it coaching abuse as most coaches understand that it is hard, mistakes can/will be made, and they need officials for a fair sport. IOW, most coaches are good with the worst ones being (parent/coaches) at the youth level.
Making it FS brings another issue into the mix. While I do believe this is the direction the girls sport should go, I don't see it happening that way.
FS officials are smaller in number than we are and are severely underpaid for what they do. I can provide you with the proper person to contact if you want to become a FS official.
To close, I once again extend an invitation to contact me directly to get you started on having the best seat in the house.
Your move.
Jim

Keith Carter, Kallai, and his crew can speak to the # of Freestyle official in the state of Ohio. Where there are hundreds of folkstyle officials across the state. There are less than 50 freestyle officials and that may be a generous number. I think the # of certified top FS officials across the state of Ohio are less than 25.

So good luck with making girls wrestling Freestyle. I don't believe any other state is making it FR at the high school level. You can say recruit for coaches and officials but it doesn't work that way. Many young people are not going into officiating and/or coaching for a multitude of reasons.