National Youth Rankings 8th Grade and Under - Ohio Kids

S

snapspinscore

Well-known member
Mobbin' Media has been doing 8th Grade and Under National Youth Rankings on Rokfin, for a few years now, and I saw today Ohio is represented pretty well in the initial rankings for this season. Obviously youth rankings are hard to do and you can argue up and down about them until you turn blue, but it is still nice to see the future of youth wrestling in our state be recognized nationally. At least gives you an idea of whos tough coming up through the ranks for our next generation of wrestling entertainment. You can make an argument for plenty of other guys too, I am sure.

Name, National Rank, High School

Braxton Sharples - 3rd (60lbs) - St. Edward

Colin Bagdonas - 4th (70lbs) - Perrysburg

Chance Wuhr - 9th (75lbs) - Lake Catholic

Brandon Bickerton - 5th (85lbs) - Brecksville ?

Urijah Lopez - 8th (95lbs) - Perrysburg

Grey Burnett - 3rd (100lbs) - Perrysburg

Lincoln Rohr - 8th (100lbs) - Massillon Perry

Austin Bickerton - 8th (105lbs) - Brecksville ?

Kane Shawger - 4th (112lbs) - Cincinnati La Salle ?

Caige Horak - 7th (160lbs) Massillon Perry

Danny Zmorowski - 2nd (235lbs) Twinsburg

Jackson Phillips - 3rd (235lbs) Barberton
 
 
Youth rankings may be the saddest thing I have ever seen. This is a prime example of why so many kids are turning away from sports to just sit and play video games all day. I get the idea of wanting to be elite but at some point it gets to be too much. Middle School is a maybe but YOUTH? That is insane. Let those younger kids have fun and learn to love the sport first. Slapping rankings on kids that young puts way too much pressure on them that many never learn how to handle. Those kids end up burning out and hating the sport then quit before they ever get to high school. This is sad.
 
rr23724 said:
Youth rankings may be the saddest thing I have ever seen. This is a prime example of why so many kids are turning away from sports to just sit and play video games all day. I get the idea of wanting to be elite but at some point it gets to be too much. Middle School is a maybe but YOUTH? That is insane. Let those younger kids have fun and learn to love the sport first. Slapping rankings on kids that young puts way too much pressure on them that many never learn how to handle. Those kids end up burning out and hating the sport then quit before they ever get to high school. This is sad.
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I mean, you are entitled to your own opinion for sure. However, IMO, its overzealous parents that lead to kids burning out. Not youth rankings, that really have no meaning in the grand scheme of things. I know half the kids on this list, and I know their parents. These kids are in good hands. It's the kids like little Johnny, who is a mediocre to decent wrestler or ball player at best, but their parent(s) believe they are a superstar. They end up putting Johnny in big tournaments he has no business being in, and gets his butt whipped, then the parents get all pissed at them about it. It is the kid who is a mediocre baseball player, but his parents keep making him try out for the top travel teams, and they dont make it. Or if they do make it, they do not play much and are in way over their head, so their confidence is shot. It's those kids that burnout and end up playing video games. Not the kids who not only love the sport, but have the aptitude to actually live up to lofty expectations. It's the crazy parents with unrealistic expectations that create anxiety and burnout, not youth rankings nobody really pays attention to anyway.
 
Did you ever stop to think that ranking peoples kids may contribute to these parents being overzealous? The great ones with great support systems will be great no matter what. They probably come from "wrestling families" who have been around it for a long time and know that those rankings are worth less then the screen they are viewing them on. So why do something that creates a situation for the other kids to end up hating the sport because their parents put too much pressure on them? Too many parents who don't understand sports get poisoned by seeing their kids name not being mentioned and its a hit to their own pride (which is simply idiotic). With no rankings, this wouldn't happen. Sure...some may still be crazy but why give them something to fuel that?

I've been in wrestling for 45 years with 30 of those as a coach from youth through high school level (and I'm sure most people on these forums have been around for a long time as well). I've seen every type of parent imaginable and I've always found that the ones who have no clue about rankings or forums rarely, if ever put any extra pressure on their wrestlers. I've watched other parents constantly tell their wrestlers what they read about or what they were ranked and for all but the absolute elite kids it is ruinous to their careers. Most of these kids don't want to hear those things. They want to work hard, love the sport, and do the best they are capable of.

I had a youth dad tell me that it is not too much for our first year kids (grades K-3) to practice 3 days a week for 1:30-2 hours each day. When I suggested that it is an introduction to the sport and it is about getting them to love the sport first with shorter 60-75 minute practices twice a week, he responded with "Those kids are too far behind. They need to go longer so we can toughen them up and get them caught up." He also proceeded to talk about how much weight his first year kid had to lose and how he had to get them down to a good weight class. This is mentality INSANE.

Youth sports have gotten out of hand. Everyone knows it but almost no one wants to actually step back and stop the lunacy. When officials are being assaulted over a youth event or parents are fighting in the bleachers what message are we sending children?
 
You also can look at it and say if a kid is going out and getting beat on everyday, can’t score or get a takedown guess what he will quit too because it’s not fun losing everyday. Each kid is different , each situation is different, there is no one size fits all.
 
rr23724 said:
Did you ever stop to think that ranking peoples kids may contribute to these parents being overzealous? The great ones with great support systems will be great no matter what. They probably come from "wrestling families" who have been around it for a long time and know that those rankings are worth less then the screen they are viewing them on. So why do something that creates a situation for the other kids to end up hating the sport because their parents put too much pressure on them? Too many parents who don't understand sports get poisoned by seeing their kids name not being mentioned and its a hit to their own pride (which is simply idiotic). With no rankings, this wouldn't happen. Sure...some may still be crazy but why give them something to fuel that?

I've been in wrestling for 45 years with 30 of those as a coach from youth through high school level (and I'm sure most people on these forums have been around for a long time as well). I've seen every type of parent imaginable and I've always found that the ones who have no clue about rankings or forums rarely, if ever put any extra pressure on their wrestlers. I've watched other parents constantly tell their wrestlers what they read about or what they were ranked and for all but the absolute elite kids it is ruinous to their careers. Most of these kids don't want to hear those things. They want to work hard, love the sport, and do the best they are capable of.

I had a youth dad tell me that it is not too much for our first year kids (grades K-3) to practice 3 days a week for 1:30-2 hours each day. When I suggested that it is an introduction to the sport and it is about getting them to love the sport first with shorter 60-75 minute practices twice a week, he responded with "Those kids are too far behind. They need to go longer so we can toughen them up and get them caught up." He also proceeded to talk about how much weight his first year kid had to lose and how he had to get them down to a good weight class. This is mentality INSANE.

Youth sports have gotten out of hand. Everyone knows it but almost no one wants to actually step back and stop the lunacy. When officials are being assaulted over a youth event or parents are fighting in the bleachers what message are we sending children?
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Everything you are saying is not wrong, but I also think you are using a very small "problem" in youth rankings, and blowing it up to be much more than it is. These rankings have only been around a few years, and like you, I have been around the sport for decades, and have seen toxic parenting the entire time. Even without these rankings, parents of the kids traveling all over the place, know exactly who the "who's who" kids are. They will compare their kid to the top kids, regardless of these rankings. It is what it is. Like I said earlier, I know a lot of these parents, and none of them care about where they are ranked. They just like that their child is recognized. That is actually the only reason I shared these rankings. Just to give the guys on this forum an idea of who some of the top kids coming through our youth and middle school ranks are, so that you can keep an eye on them for the future. I was just giving some recognition to hard working kids.
 
As far as the rankings go, the guy that does them for mobbin has a great thing going. He uses the rankings to pull kids to the couple of mobbin tournaments he runs. Its a great business model that he has created. If you have gone to his tournaments, you are very likely to make your way up the rankings. Id rather be ranked as a 12 year old then never ranked in anything ever. There will always be the haters.
The burnout term is way overused. Do kids that no longer desire to be astronauts suffer from burnout or do little kids change their desires as they find their path?
 
My son is on the bubble on being a top kid in the country. Honestly, I wish I would not have pushed him to an elite level at a young age. I wish I hadnt had him cut weight. You live and learn and its all in the love of your kid. Fortunately, I didnt push him to hard so that he didnt like the sport. I have seen it go both ways. When these top kids have been at the top, for them to take time off and fall back in the pack is very very hard on them. My son had a baseball injury and was out of action for months. He came back way behind those top kids. Thats when I had my fear of him not liking it- when he wasnt with the top kids. He made the ground back up and I have zero fear of him falling away from the sport (until girls come into play at least)
 
wrestlfan said:
My son is on the bubble on being a top kid in the country. Honestly, I wish I would not have pushed him to an elite level at a young age. I wish I hadnt had him cut weight. You live and learn and its all in the love of your kid. Fortunately, I didnt push him to hard so that he didnt like the sport. I have seen it go both ways. When these top kids have been at the top, for them to take time off and fall back in the pack is very very hard on them. My son had a baseball injury and was out of action for months. He came back way behind those top kids. Thats when I had my fear of him not liking it- when he wasnt with the top kids. He made the ground back up and I have zero fear of him falling away from the sport (until girls come into play at least)
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You know what is funny, is that I was talking to Braxton's dad not too long ago, maybe last week? And he said the EXACT same thing that you are saying. He said he wishes that he didn't push Braxton so hard as a young kid, and that it is tough not only for the kid but the parent as well to have to constantly worry about keeping him at the top. That it didn't matter, and that he was just keeping up with the Jones' so to speak. Said that he was taking him to Crazy Goats in April and May, and that Braxton had some uncharacteristic blow ups after a few losses he took, and that is when he knew he needed to change the way he was doing things. Said he didnt lace up a shoe after VAC in May, until the end of August, and it was like Braxton was reborn. Took him to Westshore and pledged him to go to St Ed's for high school, because he wanted that culture and coaching and to be done with having to coach him all the time. Said it did wonders for their relationship, Braxton's confidence and attitude. Said he is wrestling better than ever and the 3 month lay off he thought would be detrimental but let him have it anyway because he felt his son needed it badly, and it ended up being the best thing ever. Talked about why he left Perrysburg and all that. This was like a 45 min conversation. Really opens your eyes when you see what people go through.
 
wrestlfan said:
As far as the rankings go, the guy that does them for mobbin has a great thing going. He uses the rankings to pull kids to the couple of mobbin tournaments he runs. Its a great business model that he has created. If you have gone to his tournaments, you are very likely to make your way up the rankings. Id rather be ranked as a 12 year old then never ranked in anything ever. There will always be the haters.
The burnout term is way overused. Do kids that no longer desire to be astronauts suffer from burnout or do little kids change their desires as they find their path?
Click to expand...
I will say, that its kind of a two sides of the coin kind of thing. I do think he gives preference to ranking guys who do well in his tournaments, but Mobbin Classic and Dragon Nationals are VERY tough tournaments to compete in. Both have brackets, maybe not as big, but definitely as deep with talent as tournaments like Tulsa. So, I don't disagree with you in the sense that he ranks guys that go to those tournaments, but you have to perform at those tournaments still, and those tournaments are just as tough as any of the other top tournaments you can go to. They just dont have the numbers in the brackets. Of all the Ohio guys nationally ranked, I looked at the brackets, and only Sharples went to Mobbin. Actually, he was the only Ohio guy in the entire tournament that I saw. But I also personally know that he has beaten a good chunk of the guys ranked below him anyway. Most of the kids ranked in these rankings didnt go to Mobbin Classic. The guy that ranks the kids, put a lot of weight on the major tournaments, ie Tulsa, Super 32, USAW Events, and of course his tournaments. So most of the kids ranked, have all had success at one of most of those tournaments at some point. I do know that he will probably throw another ranking out in a couple months, probably after Tulsa Kickoff or even Tulsa Nationals, and these lists will look quite a bit different. It's just recognition, you can argue a 100 different kids should be on the list with them, and you wouldnt be wrong about any of them.
 
wrestlfan said:
As far as the rankings go, the guy that does them for mobbin has a great thing going. He uses the rankings to pull kids to the couple of mobbin tournaments he runs. Its a great business model that he has created. If you have gone to his tournaments, you are very likely to make your way up the rankings. Id rather be ranked as a 12 year old then never ranked in anything ever. There will always be the haters.
The burnout term is way overused. Do kids that no longer desire to be astronauts suffer from burnout or do little kids change their desires as they find their path?
Click to expand...
Its different when you love something you are actually doing and then get burnt out on it instead of changing your mind on something you say you want to do as a little kid and have never even experienced.
 
snapspinscore said:
You know what is funny, is that I was talking to Braxton's dad not too long ago, maybe last week? And he said the EXACT same thing that you are saying. He said he wishes that he didn't push Braxton so hard as a young kid, and that it is tough not only for the kid but the parent as well to have to constantly worry about keeping him at the top. That it didn't matter, and that he was just keeping up with the Jones' so to speak. Said that he was taking him to Crazy Goats in April and May, and that Braxton had some uncharacteristic blow ups after a few losses he took, and that is when he knew he needed to change the way he was doing things. Said he didnt lace up a shoe after VAC in May, until the end of August, and it was like Braxton was reborn. Took him to Westshore and pledged him to go to St Ed's for high school, because he wanted that culture and coaching and to be done with having to coach him all the time. Said it did wonders for their relationship, Braxton's confidence and attitude. Said he is wrestling better than ever and the 3 month lay off he thought would be detrimental but let him have it anyway because he felt his son needed it badly, and it ended up being the best thing ever. Talked about why he left Perrysburg and all that. This was like a 45 min conversation. Really opens your eyes when you see what people go through.
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I took my 6th grade year off because I flat out told my Dad that if I didn't I would quit the sport for good and hate him forever. He gave me the year off and I came back stronger than ever.

Strange though that even the parents of the elite kids are saying that time off has been great for their kids...maybe there is something to the idea of too much pressure being detrimental? Keeping up with the Jones' isn't the best plan.
 
snapspinscore said:
Everything you are saying is not wrong, but I also think you are using a very small "problem" in youth rankings, and blowing it up to be much more than it is. These rankings have only been around a few years, and like you, I have been around the sport for decades, and have seen toxic parenting the entire time. Even without these rankings, parents of the kids traveling all over the place, know exactly who the "who's who" kids are. They will compare their kid to the top kids, regardless of these rankings. It is what it is. Like I said earlier, I know a lot of these parents, and none of them care about where they are ranked. They just like that their child is recognized. That is actually the only reason I shared these rankings. Just to give the guys on this forum an idea of who some of the top kids coming through our youth and middle school ranks are, so that you can keep an eye on them for the future. I was just giving some recognition to hard working kids.
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Hard working kids can be recognized without rankings.

And I agree that there will always be an element of the toxic parents. But to do things that increase the number and type of toxic parents is just a horrible idea. Instead of increasing the issue we should be trying to find a way to educate those parents on what they are doing to their kids.
 
I do agree with everyone's points each parent has to know they're kid burnout only comes from losing putting a kid in a tournament they have no business in doesn't make sense then the parent gets mad which makes absolutely no sense. I have also not known any wrestler to get burnout from winning. From my perspective this is not pressure this is just a sport I have told my son real pressure is when you lose your job and your wife and kids are looking at you to continue to provide food and shelter to them that's pressure to me again I say again that is pressure to me.
 
I have been thinking about this a lot lately. My son is still in high school, but he/we have several friends and former teammates who have been talented enough to wrestle at the collegiate level. Some have gone on to excellent collegiate careers, and most, well, didn't.

Recently we had a good friend who was a "top national kid" decide that maybe collegiate wrestling wasn't really for him. Does that mean he burnt out? Not in my mind.

The truth is this sport requires you to burn the wick pretty hot while you're doing it, and it ends eventually for everyone. If my son is able to, but decides not to wrestle in college (or even go to college), I wouldn't blame him.

I liked the astronaut analogy.
 
Huckleberry said:
I have been thinking about this a lot lately. My son is still in high school, but he/we have several friends and former teammates who have been talented enough to wrestle at the collegiate level. Some have gone on to excellent collegiate careers, and most, well, didn't.

Recently we had a good friend who was a "top national kid" decide that maybe collegiate wrestling wasn't really for him. Does that mean he burnt out? Not in my mind.

The truth is this sport requires you to burn the wick pretty hot while you're doing it, and it ends eventually for everyone. If my son is able to, but decides not to wrestle in college (or even go to college), I wouldn't blame him.

I liked the astronaut analogy.
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Unless you plan on making a career out of coaching at a high level MANY elite wrestlers decide not to put college wrestling as #1 in their priority list, doesn't mean they "burned out" or they lost elite talent, the commitment to excel at the college level has to be "all in" to reach attainable goals for those elite recruits. Most NCAA Champs or multiple AA's live and breathe the sport through college.
 
rr23724 said:
Did you ever stop to think that ranking peoples kids may contribute to these parents being overzealous? The great ones with great support systems will be great no matter what. They probably come from "wrestling families" who have been around it for a long time and know that those rankings are worth less then the screen they are viewing them on. So why do something that creates a situation for the other kids to end up hating the sport because their parents put too much pressure on them? Too many parents who don't understand sports get poisoned by seeing their kids name not being mentioned and its a hit to their own pride (which is simply idiotic). With no rankings, this wouldn't happen. Sure...some may still be crazy but why give them something to fuel that?

I've been in wrestling for 45 years with 30 of those as a coach from youth through high school level (and I'm sure most people on these forums have been around for a long time as well). I've seen every type of parent imaginable and I've always found that the ones who have no clue about rankings or forums rarely, if ever put any extra pressure on their wrestlers. I've watched other parents constantly tell their wrestlers what they read about or what they were ranked and for all but the absolute elite kids it is ruinous to their careers. Most of these kids don't want to hear those things. They want to work hard, love the sport, and do the best they are capable of.

I had a youth dad tell me that it is not too much for our first year kids (grades K-3) to practice 3 days a week for 1:30-2 hours each day. When I suggested that it is an introduction to the sport and it is about getting them to love the sport first with shorter 60-75 minute practices twice a week, he responded with "Those kids are too far behind. They need to go longer so we can toughen them up and get them caught up." He also proceeded to talk about how much weight his first year kid had to lose and how he had to get them down to a good weight class. This is mentality INSANE.

Youth sports have gotten out of hand. Everyone knows it but almost no one wants to actually step back and stop the lunacy. When officials are being assaulted over a youth event or parents are fighting in the bleachers what message are we sending children?
Click to expand...
I've seen kids develop into the most elite high schoolers and continue that in college who had the MOST OVERBEARING CRAZY PARENTS from 6 years old on! Pushing their kids beyond belief as youngsters, most of those Dads had lame high school careers below average wrestlers. There are examples of brothers one being ELITE through College , 1 quitting the sport...same CRAZY AS CRAZY CAN BE DAD. It's basically dependent on the beginning wrestlers desire to make Dad proud along with a fair amount of talent early on and the ability to accept CRAZY DAD'S expectations and pushing hard. "Burnout" can happen with any kid eventually, even those with a Dad that never competed and has modest expectations, some kids just dont want to put the work in to get better, or just aren't physically talented enough for the grind of Wrestling. Let's face it it's tough on many kids to get their A kicked daily while they're getting "better" some faster than others, some never really getting "good".

I do think ranking youth is a silly A concept...However don't really think it sways most youth towards "burnout" faster. Being around many of the MOST elite youth in the country for several years, honestly MOST of them didnt burn out and remained elite through high school and many even in college. Some had crazy Dad's, some had Dads with no clue or reaction to wins or losses by little Johny. I made some mistakes for sure, luckily I also knew enough about the sport to make many good decisions ...one was never to let my son lose weight for any youth or middle school tournament, always moving him up to the next weight. He first lost weight as a sophomore in high school, and it wasn't a ton of weight. I do think that that "burnout" mostly occurs from the youth wrestler himself, his personality his ability to accept losing and continue to work isn't easy in this sport.
 
this weekend is a good example for me. I am one of those dads that has to understand not to be obsessive.. lol. I know that he would get better if he was at super 32. He would likely be top 3 at ms and right there to win youth. He isnt as good as the top couple ms kids at his weight, but could knock them off depending on how they respond to some massive weight cutting. He has a football game this weekend and thats where he should be. He will catch back up once he gets going for a while.
 
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wrestlfan said:
this weekend is a good example for me. I am one of those dads that has to understand not to be obsessive.. lol. I know that he would get better if he was at super 32. He would likely be top 3 at ms and right there to win youth. He isnt as good as the top couple ms kids at his weight, but could knock them off depending on how they respond to some massive weight cutting. He has a football game this weekend and thats where he should be. He will catch back up once he gets going for a while.
Click to expand...

This is one heck of a healthy parenting move. You get it and your kid will be just fine. I wish more could understand that this is the right thing to do for your kid.
 
Old142 said:
I've seen kids develop into the most elite high schoolers and continue that in college who had the MOST OVERBEARING CRAZY PARENTS from 6 years old on! Pushing their kids beyond belief as youngsters, most of those Dads had lame high school careers below average wrestlers. There are examples of brothers one being ELITE through College , 1 quitting the sport...same CRAZY AS CRAZY CAN BE DAD. It's basically dependent on the beginning wrestlers desire to make Dad proud along with a fair amount of talent early on and the ability to accept CRAZY DAD'S expectations and pushing hard. "Burnout" can happen with any kid eventually, even those with a Dad that never competed and has modest expectations, some kids just dont want to put the work in to get better, or just aren't physically talented enough for the grind of Wrestling. Let's face it it's tough on many kids to get their A kicked daily while they're getting "better" some faster than others, some never really getting "good".

I do think ranking youth is a silly A concept...However don't really think it sways most youth towards "burnout" faster. Being around many of the MOST elite youth in the country for several years, honestly MOST of them didnt burn out and remained elite through high school and many even in college. Some had crazy Dad's, some had Dads with no clue or reaction to wins or losses by little Johny. I made some mistakes for sure, luckily I also knew enough about the sport to make many good decisions ...one was never to let my son lose weight for any youth or middle school tournament, always moving him up to the next weight. He first lost weight as a sophomore in high school, and it wasn't a ton of weight. I do think that that "burnout" mostly occurs from the youth wrestler himself, his personality his ability to accept losing and continue to work isn't easy in this sport.
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I think you hit the nail on the head kids not wanting to put the work in to get better and unfortunately for some kids that mentality will follow them the rest of their lives in their careers, marriage, raising kids the thing is that wrestling is one of the few sports that physically you don't have to be super athletic does it help yes is it the end all be all no so I tell all the kids I coach you get in what you get out of this sport. But I am kind of on your side Rankings at the MS is dumb their were kids who were kicking my son's butt now he's returning the favor and then some at this point I just like the toughness he gets out of it.
 
wrestlfan said:
My son is on the bubble on being a top kid in the country. Honestly, I wish I would not have pushed him to an elite level at a young age. I wish I hadnt had him cut weight. You live and learn and its all in the love of your kid. Fortunately, I didnt push him to hard so that he didnt like the sport. I have seen it go both ways. When these top kids have been at the top, for them to take time off and fall back in the pack is very very hard on them. My son had a baseball injury and was out of action for months. He came back way behind those top kids. Thats when I had my fear of him not liking it- when he wasnt with the top kids. He made the ground back up and I have zero fear of him falling away from the sport (until girls come into play at least)
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Your story and your post are hard to follow. Do you think your child should be pushed more or less? He seems to achieve without tons of pressure. I'd suggest setting reachable but difficult goals and helping him work toward those goals he sets.
 
Danimal Dan said:
Your story and your post are hard to follow. Do you think your child should be pushed more or less? He seems to achieve without tons of pressure. I'd suggest setting reachable but difficult goals and helping him work toward those goals he sets.
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I really don't need to push my own son any more. I had put tons of pressure to win on him early and wish I wouldn't have. I am fortunate not to have pushed him away from the sport. It's wierd though as I think one thing that made him love the sport was achieving at the highest levels of success early on. It's a double esged sword. Push hard with a fear of making them hate it- or don't push hard- not win- and they hate it . All kids are different and both can be right or wrong
 
wrestlfan said:
I really don't need to push my own son any more. I had put tons of pressure to win on him early and wish I wouldn't have. I am fortunate not to have pushed him away from the sport. It's wierd though as I think one thing that made him love the sport was achieving at the highest levels of success early on. It's a double edged sword. Push hard with a fear of making them hate it- or don't push hard- not win- and they hate it . All kids are different and both can be right or wrong
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"Pushing hard" Doesnt guarantee to make them winners either , Ive seen plenty of kids who had a Dad that pushed hard never get much above average. And I've seen kids some kids do very well in spite of the Dad who pushed hard for his own glory he never achieved. You hear a lot about "anyone can become a champion with hard work in wrestling" Somewhat true ....but desire and physical talent are always present also in the best of the best. IMO.
 
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