my top 5 finals matches for tonight

rr23724

Well-known member
Both central district rematches will be lights out.

Add Neves vs Shulaw to that as well. They both have wins over each other this year. District final rematch as well.
 

wdanforth

Active member
Younger 4-3 with 4 penalty points on stalling calls
Here is the match. Not sure I agree with all of the stall cals. But what was the Graham wrestler thinking? Just hit with multiple stall calls and he does the grade school run from your opponent clinging to now only a 1 point lead.

 

wfamily

New member
Here is the match. Not sure I agree with all of the stall cals. But what was the Graham wrestler thinking? Just hit with multiple stall calls and he does the grade school run from your opponent clinging to now only a 1 point lead.

They made a mistake scoring the match. If you watched the flow-wrestling video with the score you will notice that they hit Gessler with a stalling call taking the score from 3-0 Gessler to 3-1 then Gessler got hit with another stalling call for 1pt and the score keeper made the score 3-2 Then Younger's coach argued that it should be 2 points not 1 and the score keeper just added 2 to the existing point that they entered making the final score 3-4 Younger. They should have deleted the 1 then added the 2 making it 3-3 which would have caused the match to go into overtime. Younger knew it to as he was was ready to go into overtime. But his coach kept quiet and Gessler's coach should have been quicker to catch the error especially in a state finals match.
 

pugluv

Active member
They made a mistake scoring the match. If you watched the flow-wrestling video with the score you will notice that they hit Gessler with a stalling call taking the score from 3-0 Gessler to 3-1 then Gessler got hit with another stalling call for 1pt and the score keeper made the score 3-2 Then Younger's coach argued that it should be 2 points not 1 and the score keeper just added 2 to the existing point that they entered making the final score 3-4 Younger. They should have deleted the 1 then added the 2 making it 3-3 which would have caused the match to go into overtime. Younger knew it to as he was was ready to go into overtime. But his coach kept quiet and Gessler's coach should have been quicker to catch the error especially in a state finals match.
He was arguing it should’ve been 2 on the td…then he was arguing it was fleeing which would have made it 3-3, ot, however ref called another stall which was 2 pts making it 4-3 final…that ref should never do another state tournament, ever. Kudos to Gessler for losing with class while the crime of armed robbery was committed against him, no clue how he did it…
 

grant87

Member
Not like any match I have ever witnessed. Not even at jr. high levels. Hard to believe the ref, coaches and events could have gone down like this in a state finals match!

Right there with you @pugluv ... Nolan handled this with such class!
 

Dro24

New member
I've seen dudes give up 4 stalling points before, but never in the span of 35 seconds.

I don't see how you can hit Gessler for stalling right at 10 seconds and then hit him again with 1 second left, but then again, running around the mat to avoid your opponent is textbook stalling. Kudos to him for how he handled it
 

jmog

Well-known member
You maybe able to argue the first few stalling calls. But the last one that cost him was blatantly obvious to everyone who has ever watched wrestling. He should have engaged with the last 3 seconds on that restart. He is too good of a wrestler to not defend a desperation takedown for 3 seconds.

Backing up and running around the mat is OBVIOUS stalling and the ref absolutely had to call it at that point. There was no way he couldn't.

Argue the first couple all you want, but the last one that cost Gessler the match, was blatant and obvious stalling and definitely had to be called. He knew better than to run around the mat when he was only up 1 point and even had a stall warning.
 

dion

Active member
I've seen dudes give up 4 stalling points before, but never in the span of 35 seconds.

I don't see how you can hit Gessler for stalling right at 10 seconds and then hit him again with 1 second left, but then again, running around the mat to avoid your opponent is textbook stalling.
Wish stalling was called like that on the collegiate level. It would encourage more offense and be more fan friendly.
 

jdemay8

New member
They made a mistake scoring the match. If you watched the flow-wrestling video with the score you will notice that they hit Gessler with a stalling call taking the score from 3-0 Gessler to 3-1 then Gessler got hit with another stalling call for 1pt and the score keeper made the score 3-2 Then Younger's coach argued that it should be 2 points not 1 and the score keeper just added 2 to the existing point that they entered making the final score 3-4 Younger. They should have deleted the 1 then added the 2 making it 3-3 which would have caused the match to go into overtime. Younger knew it to as he was was ready to go into overtime. But his coach kept quiet and Gessler's coach should have been quicker to catch the error especially in a state finals match.
I wondered this as well watching it live. I only saw 2 stalls prior to the final one.
 

WishYouWereHere

Well-known member
Here’s what I saw…
The head ref blew his whistle to end the match. The head ref did not call stalling and in his mind the match was over and Graham won.
Watterson coaches went to the table, head ref and coaches discussed, Head ref & assistant ref discussed… then the final stalling was called, giving Watterson the win.
Stalling or not stalling is the head ref’s opinion. It’s a judgement call.
I do not think that an assistant can say, “my opinion is that he was stalling” and that causes the head to change his mind and call stalling.
Just like if, during a match, a wrestler picks up and returns his opponent to the mat. The head doesn’t think nothing of it, but the assistant chimes in and says, “that was an illegal slam”, and then the head ref penalizes the wrestler for unnecessary roughness.
Also, I noticed it last night, but didn’t understand what I saw until I watched the video.
After the final whistle was blown and the match was over (before the reversal call), the assistant ref seems to walk toward the Watterson coaches and motions for them to go to the table.
I thought this was weird then, and still do now.
But, the Graham coaches seemed really calm about it, making me think that I missed something.
Anyone have anything else?
 
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jmog

Well-known member
Here’s what I saw…
The head ref blew his whistle to end the match. The head ref did not call stalling and in his mind the match was over and Graham won.
Watterson coaches went to the table, head ref and coaches discussed, Head ref & assistant ref discussed… then the final stalling was called, giving Watterson the win.
Stalling or not stalling is the head ref’s opinion. It’s a judgement call.
I do not think that an assistant can say, “my opinion is that he was stalling” and that causes the head to change his mind and call stalling.
Just like if, during a match, a wrestler picks up and returns his opponent to the mat. The head doesn’t think nothing of it, but the assistant chimes in and says, “that was an illegal slam”, and then the head ref penalizes the wrestler for unnecessary roughness.
Also, I noticed it last night, but didn’t understand what I saw until I watched the video.
After the final whistle was blown and the match was over (before the reversal call), the assistant ref seems to walk toward the Watterson coaches and motions for them to go to the table.
I thought this was weird then, and still do now.
But, the Graham coaches seemed really calm about it, making me think that I missed something.
Anyone have anything else?
All that maybe true, but when you are up 1 and have already been hit for stalling 1 or more times YOU DO NOT RUN IN CIRCLES AWAY FROM YOUR OPPONENT.

There should be no debate if that last call was stalling or not. In a wrestling match it is absolutely stalling to literally run away from your opponent. That is plain and obvious to everyone.

If that is your plan for the final 3 seconds you better have a big enough lead to give up the point(s).
 

350zjk

Active member
1) I do not think that an assistant can say, “my opinion is that he was stalling” and that causes the head to change his mind and call stalling.
Just like if, during a match, a wrestler picks up and returns his opponent to the mat. The head doesn’t think nothing of it, but the assistant chimes in and says, “that was an illegal slam”, and then the head ref penalizes the wrestler for unnecessary roughness.
2) Also, I noticed it last night, but didn’t understand what I saw until I watched the video.
After the final whistle was blown and the match was over (before the reversal call), the assistant ref seems to walk toward the Watterson coaches and motions for them to go to the table.
Retired from officiating in 2020. 1) The asst. can absolutely give his opinion on a call, but let me preface this. It is rather an unwritten rule that the asst. does not share his opinion unless asked by the head, UNLESS he feels VERY strongly on something or he is a seasoned veteran working with a rookie. 2) If the coaches were verbalizing a concern the asst. could have used the gesture to remind them that they have to approach the table to have an appropriate discourse with the referee.
 

jdemay8

New member
I just went back and watched the match. It was not 4 stalls in 40 seconds as some are saying. The first stall was very early in the 3rd period. The second stall was with 40 seconds left and the third stall was with 6 seconds. And then the final one.

To me, all the calls were obvious, with the exception of perhaps the third one, which reasonable minds might differ over. You can also hear the Graham coaches, I believe, yelling “go forward” throughout the third period.

Still an absolutely heartbreaking way to end a state title match.
 

WishYouWereHere

Well-known member
I’m not debating the stalling.

I feel the head ref didn’t call stalling; the assistant ref did.

If I’m the head official, and my judgement is that it’s not stalling, but my assistant thinks it is… well, I guess he can call it stalling when he’s the head official.

If I can’t make up my own mind on stalling, then I shouldn’t be doing state final matches.

There’s plenty of regular season JV matches he can do instead.

I know, I know… we have a shortage of officials.

Or, I should get my cert and do it.

Too bad I didn’t do that.
 

WishYouWereHere

Well-known member
Retired from officiating in 2020. 1) The asst. can absolutely give his opinion on a call, but let me preface this. It is rather an unwritten rule that the asst. does not share his opinion unless asked by the head, UNLESS he feels VERY strongly on something or he is a seasoned veteran working with a rookie. 2) If the coaches were verbalizing a concern the asst. could have used the gesture to remind them that they have to approach the table to have an appropriate discourse with the referee.
Yes, the assistant is there to assist the head official. Usually for out-of-bounds, locked hands, time running out, illegal holds, start cautions, etc.
Stalling, illegal slams, back exposures are the opinion of the head official. He shouldn’t be asking anyone “is that stalling”, “is that back at 45 or 90 degrees”, “was that a slam?”
But I think that’s what happened last night. 🤔
 
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jmog

Well-known member
Yes, the assistant is there to assist the head official. Usually for out-of-bounds, locked hands, time running out, illegal holds, start cautions, locked hands, etc.
Stalling, illegal slams, back exposures are the opinion of the head official. He shouldn’t be asking anyone “is that stalling”, “is that back at 45 or 90 degrees”, “was that a slam?”
But I think that’s what happened last night. 🤔

I can’t believe you are seriously arguing about the last call. He literally was acting like it was a track meet. It was stalling, period. Whether the head ref called it to your liking or not it was the correct call and it was made correctly before they ended the match.
 

350zjk

Active member
I’m not debating the stalling.

I feel the head ref didn’t call stalling; the assistant ref did.

If I’m the head official, and my judgement is that it’s not stalling, but my assistant thinks it is… well, I guess he can call it stalling when he’s the head official.

If I can’t make up my own mind on stalling, then I shouldn’t be doing state final matches.

There’s plenty of regular season JV matches he can do instead.

I know, I know… we have a shortage of officials.

Or, I should get my cert and do it.

Too bad I didn’t do that.
What on earth were you watching? The head official certainly did call stalling before time expired. Did you not see when his fist went into the air? When he made the signal the asst. was nowhere near him. On top of that it was always the head official that initiated dialogue with the asst. I have worked with both officials and will say without hesitation that the asst. is one of the top 10 officials that I've seen or worked with in my 45 yrs. of coaching/officiating. He did EVERYTHING by the book. Real quickly I will say this. The good officials will not hesitate to confer with their asst. involving ALL types of situations, especially when your asst. is one of the tops in the game. However, a good official should also be selective. Conferring with his asst. numerous times will not communicate positively to spectators. Enough said.
 

WishYouWereHere

Well-known member
What on earth were you watching? The head official certainly did call stalling before time expired. Did you not see when his fist went into the air? When he made the signal the asst. was nowhere near him. On top of that it was always the head official that initiated dialogue with the asst. I have worked with both officials and will say without hesitation that the asst. is one of the top 10 officials that I've seen or worked with in my 45 yrs. of coaching/officiating. He did EVERYTHING by the book. Real quickly I will say this. The good officials will not hesitate to confer with their asst. involving ALL types of situations, especially when your asst. is one of the tops in the game. However, a good official should also be selective. Conferring with his asst. numerous times will not communicate positively to spectators. Enough said.
You’re way too angry. If you are/were an official, then I can imagine what type you are/were.
I didn’t see him call stalling at the end. I saw him raise his arm to signal “time”. If he did call stalling, then the 2 pts should have immediately been signaled, but that didn’t happen.
Instead, he took them back to the center to shake hands; and the Graham wrestler was about to have his hand raised.
Again, I’m not arguing the stalling… just the way it finally was called.
Enough said.
 
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jmog

Well-known member
You’re way too angry. If you are/were an official, then I can imagine what type you are/were.
I didn’t see him call stalling at the end. I saw him raise his arm to signal “time”. If he did call stalling, then the 2 pts should have immediately been signaled, but that didn’t happen.
Instead, he took them back to the center to shake hands; and the Graham wrestler was about to have his hand raised.
Again, I’m not arguing the stalling… just the way it finally was called.
Enough said.
Oh the irony of this post.
 
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