Mike Doss
- Thread starter GOeaglez22
- Start date
consumerman
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Tenessee was not national champion in 1967
USC and OJ Simpson were national champs
egads that was simple
consumerman
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Bordertown
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The person we are talking about was Cedric Wilson (Pittsburg, Tennesse, Melrose High.
Let's focus on the thread.
Bordertown
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Not really that simple. Tennesse was crowned national champions by Litkenhous, an apparent ranking system at the time. Tennessee lists it on their historical website as a national championship year. One of those split championships college football is so famous for without a playoff system.
Following were the 1967 National Champions from the NCAA website:
1967
Notre Dame: Dunkel
Oklahoma: Poling
Southern California: AP, Berryman, Billingsley, DeVold, FB News, Football Research, FW, Helms, Matthews, National Championship Foundation, NFF, Sagarin, UPI
Tennessee: Litkenhous
Four teams lay claim to the title.
Bordertown
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Not sure. Only know they were State Champions. As there is no high school playoff system, they have as good a claim as anyone. Please see the 1967 National Champions in football above which was a no brainer to you. But as Justafan noted he thought the topic was Super Bowl, NCAA D-1A champions, and State Champions. My guess is no poll or ranking service had them as a hypothetical high school national champion.
As I have stated previously, there is no school that can prove they were the best football team in the nation including DLS during their undefeated streak or SLC during their current streak. I think you can identify the cream (which both of the teams were/are) but not which of the cream teams is the best.
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consumerman
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this is ludicrous
USC beat BD AT ND 24-7. ND claim bites the dust
Oklahoma and Tennessee both have 1 poll that nobody has ever heard of
Meanwhile USC has AP, UPI and anything else meaningful
for once, give it up as you have NOTHING to satnd on here
USC was 1967 National Champion. PERIOD!
consumerman
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no poll or ranking service had them as a hypothetical high school national champion
precisely
but more importantly, DJ WIlliams has been crowned a national champion, the other guys mentioned have not
to claim that since they won their state it is possible they won a national championship does not equate to having been voted one
precisely
but more importantly, DJ WIlliams has been crowned a national champion, the other guys mentioned have not
to claim that since they won their state it is possible they won a national championship does not equate to having been voted one
consumerman
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1967 Tenessee went 9-2 and LOST to UCLA, a team USC beat
1967 Oklahoma LOST to Texas, a team USC BEAT
USC also beat defending national champ Notre Dame, and beat UCLA in the Game of the year
They did lose to 7-2-1 Oregon in a viscious rainstorm, 3-0
Oregon State also tied 7-2-1 UCLA, beat 8-2 Purdue (who beat 8-2 Notre Dame) and beat 8-2 Arizona State
its a no-brainer
1967 Oklahoma LOST to Texas, a team USC BEAT
USC also beat defending national champ Notre Dame, and beat UCLA in the Game of the year
They did lose to 7-2-1 Oregon in a viscious rainstorm, 3-0
Oregon State also tied 7-2-1 UCLA, beat 8-2 Purdue (who beat 8-2 Notre Dame) and beat 8-2 Arizona State
its a no-brainer
just a fan
Success is Tradition!
You asked when Tennessee won a national championship, and I answered...
They won a national championship in 1998 as well as 1951...
http://www.ncaasports.com/football/mens/history
Whether they were the national champions in 1967 isn't relevant given that you said that they'd never won one. The fact is, they did.
Bordertown
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While I might agree with you that USC was in my opinion the best team in 1967, but I am just reporting the facts. The NCAA & University of Tennessee both show Tennessee has a claim to the 1967 National Championship. You stated Tennessee had never won a national championship and I listed 6 years that Tennessee claims at least a share of the national championship on their website.
I think it is similar to USC claiming in 2004 that it had a share of the 1939 National Championship to get to 11 based upon Frank G. Dickinson ranking system.
Link to Folks with a claim to a National Championship Link - http://www.ncaa.org/champadmin/ia_football_past_champs.html
You have made a false statement. Can you back it up?
Look at the ratings of the teams played by the 5A state champions in Texas and compare them to the teams played by the state champs from every other state. You will find that the Texas 5A playoffs are the toughest in the nation.
That's the facts despite what our amusing friend from California says.
consumerman
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wrong
i said prove that this person played on a high school national championship and a college national championship, I f my request was not clear I apologize. No one has proven thyat this guy played on BOTH,
consumerman
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prove it?
how many tiers are there 1 or 2?
do 3-7 and 5-5 teams make the playoffs, yes or no?
easy answers
easy proof
________________
these are the same ratings that rate a 10-4 team THAT LOST TO A LOSING TEAM as the 52nd best in the country (BARF) and a 7-5 team that WAS OUTSCORED as one of the top 2% teams in the country (BARF BARF BARF)
and beating these two teams is what makes Texas and SLC football rated so high (barf barf barf barf)
rankings smankings
garbage in, garbage out
___________________
if texas 5A had ONE playoff NOT TWO and they had legitimate teams and seedings (not mandatory 2 per league, whether they are 10-0 or 3-7, and whether they are large school or small school), having two playoffs with hundreds of teams is a WATERED DOWN PLAYOFF SYSTEM. To argue otherwise is pure stupidity
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consumerman
New member
see the word EVEN
NOT EVER
I was referring to 1 specific year
NOT EVER
_______________
I am assuming he did not play on the 1951 team?????????
and we KNOW he has NO CLAIM to being high school national champ
case closed
consumerman
New member
thanks to all of you for abandoning the LUDICROUS argument that Tenessee was national champ in 1967
absolutely ludicrous
consumerman
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and back to my point
DJ Williams did win a national championship in high school
and he did win a national championship in college
and he is a starting linebacker on a pretty good pro team
and he was national player of the year in 1999
and John Madden said he was the best high school football player he had ever seen, and that he could have gone straight from high school to the NFL
DJ Williams did win a national championship in high school
and he did win a national championship in college
and he is a starting linebacker on a pretty good pro team
and he was national player of the year in 1999
and John Madden said he was the best high school football player he had ever seen, and that he could have gone straight from high school to the NFL
Bordertown
New member
Who were the two teams that played in the national championship game? Was it sanctioned by the NFHS?
Back to my point. Any state champion can lay claim to winning a national football championship, especially any state champion from Texas, Ohio, Florida, or California. Oops - I forgot California doesn't have state champions prior to 2006. It is mythical - nothing more.
By the way I think you need to tell Tennessee to change their media guide - http://www.utsports.com/index.php?s=%%%s%%%&change_well_id=2&url_channel_id=15&url_article_id=10086
While you are at it, please have USC eliminate the 1928 & 1939 Championships from their media guide. Georgia Tech & Texas A&M may take exception to sharing their titles.
I don't think Consumerman can grasp the difference between "average SOS" and the SOS using the best opponents. Adding more teams/games to a playoff bracket makes the bracket harder not easier. However, I doubt Consumerman can comprehend that.
The following is a SOS rating for the large school state champs from Florida, Ohio, California and Texas. I included both 5A and 6A from Florida since the 5A champ, Lakeland, was national #1 team in several polls.
Also, since the states play a different number of playoff games, I adjusted the average playoff SOS rating for 4, 5 or 6 games whenever possible.
Lastly, the SOS ratings for Florida make sense. In Florida, unlike most other states, the top teams are spread more throughout many lower classifications and are not concentrated in 5A and 6A.
The single toughest playoff opponent was Colerain who was defeated by Hillard Davidson in the Ohio Division 1 semifinals. Canyon's victory over DeLaSalle and SLC's victory over Trinity were also wins over very highly rated teams.
As a side note, SLC's 2006 playoff run was the easiest of the last three years.
Average Playoff SOS of the State Champs from Selected Football States:
#1 - Southlake Carroll - Texas 5A Division 1
.........Top 4 Playoff Opponents: 49.3
.........Top 5 Playoff Opponents: 47.3
.........Top 6 Playoff Opponents: 43.3
#2 - Hillard Davidson - Ohio Division 1
.........Top 4 Playoff Opponents: 45.3
.........Top 5 Playoff Opponents: 40.6
#3 - Cedar Hill - Texas 5A Division 2
.........Top 4 Playoff Opponents: 44.6
.........Top 5 Playoff Opponents: 42.2
.........Top 6 Playoff Opponents: 39.5
#4 - Canyon Country - California
.........Top 4 Playoff Opponents: 42.9
#5 - Northwestern - Florida 6A
.........Top 4 Playoff Opponents: 32.3
.........Top 5 Playoff Opponents: 30.2
#6 - Lakeland - Florida 5A
.........Top 4 Playoff Opponents: 29.2
.........Top 5 Playoff Opponents: 26.3
Bordertown
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Mike Doss
Superbowl - Indy 2006/07
D-1A National Champ - Ohio St 2002
USA Today HS National Champ - Canton McKinley 1997
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/preps/football/97super25.htm
So I think we have established two players Mike Doss and DJ Williams.
consumerman
New member
Lets take Texas for example.
A team that wins Texas 5A small school (which is what SLC did in 2002, 2004 and 2005) CAN NOT even claim to be the best in their own division, as the LARGE SCHOOL 5A Division has separate playoffs.
A team that wins its state but has 4 losses, like CLeveland St. Ignatius one year, would have a hard time campaigning as national champion.
Your argument is FULL of flaws.
Bordertown
New member
It may have major flaws, but so do every argument that a high school team is national championship.
Are you saying the size of a school determines the quality of a team? No one in Texas likes the split division system, but it is much preferred over some other state's methods on the West Coast. I quess we can say they are both imperfect. Texas is looking at modifying its system. How is California coming along on fixing their playoff system?
Are you saying the size of a school determines the quality of a team? No one in Texas likes the split division system, but it is much preferred over some other state's methods on the West Coast. I quess we can say they are both imperfect. Texas is looking at modifying its system. How is California coming along on fixing their playoff system?
just a fan
Success is Tradition!
Do you always argue with people...even those who have no interest in an argument? I never said, nor do I care, that Tennesse was a national champ.
In case if you haven't noticed, the topic of the thread is Mike Doss; the question was whether any other player has won a national championship at the high school, college and pro level. I did a little research to try to answer the question. I made a mistake, and admitted it back on page one, when I said that Cedric Wilson had done so.
I don't care about Tennessee, I don't care about USC. I'm not interested in an argument. I was just trying to answer the question. :dang: