Mask 3.0

AllSports12 said:
He obviously has never had to care for someone going through chemotherapy prior to covid.
He obviosuly never had to care for someone who had undergone a heart transplant prior to covid as well.
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I obviously am not too dumb to know he is trying to avoid viruses. Especially, those that can kill the immune compromised.

Bacteria, dust, and pollen. WTF.
 
ProV1 said:
What does a heart transplant have to do with Scalise? Pretzel time.
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Frustrated Dragons Den GIF by CBC

You continuing to clown yourself is epic. The effort is admirable though.
 
ProV1 said:
I obviously am not too dumb to know he is trying to avoid viruses. Especially, those that can kill the immune compromised.

Bacteria, dust, and pollen. WTF.
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Obviously, you have no clue what you are talking about regarding the last three.

Those three can cause serious problems with the immune comprimised. (and waiting to hear you claim a heart transplant patient isn't comprimised...... well heck, you already did :ROFLMAO:)
 
ProV1 said:
What does a heart transplant have to do with Scalise? Pretzel time.
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We see you troll. You claim a gotcha over Scalise wearing a mask and posters respond by pointing out that masking can help protect those that are immunocompromised. Called out for being wrong again you then turn the discussion back to the specifics of Scalise trying to throw shade on the accurate info being shared about what medical conditions mask wearing can be protective.
 
lotr10 said:
We see you troll. You claim a gotcha over Scalise wearing a mask and posters respond by pointing out that masking can help protect those that are immunocompromised. Called out for being wrong again you then turn the discussion back to the specifics of Scalise trying to throw shade on the accurate info being shared about what medical conditions mask wearing can be protective.
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You are a total fool. The mask does not know you are immunocompromised. It does what it does. If it helps protect those that are immunocompromised, it also helps those that are not. You have repeatedly said that masks are useless against a virus and then in the same breath say they help with dust, bacteria, and allergens. Do you know how dumb that statement is?
 
ProV1 said:
You are a total fool. The mask does not know you are immunocompromised. It does what it does. If it helps protect those that are immunocompromised, it also helps those that are not. You have repeatedly said that masks are useless against a virus and then in the same breath say they help with dust, bacteria, and allergens. Do you know how dumb that statement is?
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What are babbling about here?

And what kind of masks are you talking about? When most of us say "masks don't work" we're referring to cloth and disposable surgical masks. You know the ones that 99% of the public wore during the covid outbreak. And we're saying this based on the overwhelming scientific & medical evidence that shows that these types of masks don't work against the airborne covid virus.

If the main avenue of viral transmission is through liquid droplets like those coming from spittle and sneezing, the surgical masks, if changed regularly (like every 20 minutes) and worn properly can provide some protection. But early on it was shown that covid wasn't spread this way.

And there is also a huge difference between professionals properly wearing the surgical masks and the vast majority of people who either wear the masks below the nose or mouth, try to mask over a beard or never throw out the surgical masks wearing them for days or even weeks at a time.
 
lotr10 said:
What are babbling about here?

And what kind of masks are you talking about? When most of us say "masks don't work" we're referring to cloth and disposable surgical masks. You know the ones that 99% of the public wore during the covid outbreak. And we're saying this based on the overwhelming scientific & medical evidence that shows that these types of masks don't work against the airborne covid virus.

If the main avenue of viral transmission is through liquid droplets like those coming from spittle and sneezing, the surgical masks, if changed regularly (like every 20 minutes) and worn properly can provide some protection. But early on it was shown that covid wasn't spread this way.

And there is also a huge difference between professionals properly wearing the surgical masks and the vast majority of people who either wear the masks below the nose or mouth, try to mask over a beard or never throw out the surgical masks wearing them for days or even weeks at a time.
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Man, I see a whole lot of "if you do it right, it works" here. Anyone else?
 
ZfishInMason said:
Alternatively, you could see a reasonable explanation of why standard disposable masks have limited utility and when worn incorrectly (as we've all seen on countless occasions over the past few years), they do nothing at all.
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Which, again, boils down to "if you do it right, it works". That's why it's important to make a distinction between masks and mask mandates. Way too many variables in the latter, like incorrect use.
 
oxat622 said:
Man, I see a whole lot of "if you do it right, it works" here. Anyone else?
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Of course you would miss the point. I would not have epected anything more from you:

To reiterate:

* Covid infection results from breathing in airborne covid viral particles which are to small to be blocked by cloth or disposable surgical masks. And this applies even if you wear the masks perfectly. GOT IT.

* Surprisingly recent studies are showing that N95 masks worn properly do little to inhibit the movement of the covid viral particles.

* On top of the surgical/cloth masks not working to stop covid transmission there are signification practical limitations on attempting community wide masking as a means to fight these types of outbreaks. The fact is that it is impossible for an entire community to wear their masks properly. This was evident to anyone who saw how masks were worn during the covid outbreak.

* N95 masks which are superior to surgical masks require careful fitting to ensure their effectiveness. It would be impossible from a practical standpoint to try to have wide spread community masking with the N95 mask.

So to repeat for the slow: surgical/cloth masks do not impact covid transmission even if perfectly worn and expecting any population to perfectly wear any mask is foolish.
 
ZfishInMason said:
Alternatively, you could see a reasonable explanation of why standard disposable masks have limited utility and when worn incorrectly (as we've all seen on countless occasions over the past few years), they do nothing at all.
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This was one of Dr Henderson's arguments against community wide masking. Even if the mask helps you can never practically achieve effective community wide masking. Of course in the case of covid surgical & cloth masks did not work even if worn correctly.
 
ProV1 said:
You have repeatedly said that masks are useless against a virus and then in the same breath say they help with dust, bacteria, and allergens. Do you know how dumb that statement is?
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This is a situation where size matters. The typical covid viral particle is about 0.1 microns (100 nm) while the typical dust you can kick up is between 10 - 100 microns. And guess what lives in household dust? Dust mites which in the healthy can trigger all sorts of allergic responses. It's why you might want to remove carpet in the homes of the immunocompromised while making sure to dust several times per day.

Oh and dust mites are about 10 microns in size. That's about 100 times bigger then your covid particles.

As an aside have you ever mowed a lawn? And do you ever sneeze or get a runny nose or itchy eyes when your head gets covered in that cloud of dust & plant debris the mower kicks up?
 
lotr10 said:
Of course you would miss the point. I would not have epected anything more from you:

To reiterate:

* Covid infection results from breathing in airborne covid viral particles which are to small to be blocked by cloth or disposable surgical masks. And this applies even if you wear the masks perfectly. GOT IT.
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The viral particle needs a vehicle, does it not? The particle itself is smaller than the filter, but the particle is bonded to something larger
lotr10 said:
* Surprisingly recent studies are showing that N95 masks worn properly do little to inhibit the movement of the covid viral particles.
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Okay, but does the volume of exposure matter? Or in simpler exaggerated terms, if I walk through a cloud of sneeze droplets from someone sick with Covid, am I at more risk than walking by someone asymptomatic and only releasing aerosol particles, all other things equal?
lotr10 said:
* On top of the surgical/cloth masks not working to stop covid transmission there are signification practical limitations on attempting community wide masking as a means to fight these types of outbreaks. The fact is that it is impossible for an entire community to wear their masks properly. This was evident to anyone who saw how masks were worn during the covid outbreak.

* N95 masks which are superior to surgical masks require careful fitting to ensure their effectiveness. It would be impossible from a practical standpoint to try to have wide spread community masking with the N95 mask.

So to repeat for the slow: surgical/cloth masks do not impact covid transmission even if perfectly worn and expecting any population to perfectly wear any mask is foolish.
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You're judging mask mandates with these last two points. Not interested.
 
oxat622 said:
The viral particle needs a vehicle, does it not? The particle itself is smaller than the filter, but the particle is bonded to something larger

Okay, but does the volume of exposure matter? Or in simpler exaggerated terms, if I walk through a cloud of sneeze droplets from someone sick with Covid, am I at more risk than walking by someone asymptomatic and only releasing aerosol particles, all other things equal?

You're judging mask mandates with these last two points. Not interested.
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Some do and some virus particles don't. In the case of covid it appears that individual covid particles can cause infection.

Yes the density of the individual covid particles in the air mattered. This is why outdoor transmission of covid was very rare and it mostly infected people indoors where you could be exposed to high concentrations of the airborne viral particles. But in a high density covid particle environment you're still dealing with individual particles passing through the mask.

BTW, after sneezing the water can evaporate very quickly leaving individual airborne covid particles in high density moving out from the person sneezing. Also coughing, especially a "dry" cough, often resulted in covid particles with little or no bodily fluids attached.

But the "why" the masks don't work for covid is less important then the FACT that the overwhelming scientific & medical evidence demonstrated that masking did not impact covid transmission. We know masking, even when masks were worn properly, didn't work.

Your last sentence is silly on it's face. A basic principal of good Public Health policy is to make sure your efforts are practical and that regular people can be reasonably expected to be compliant with your instructions. It's not reasonable to expect that in community wide masking there won't be a lot of people who fail to wear their masks correctly. And with an airborne respiratory viral outbreak it doesn't take a lot of people screwing up to cancel out the impact of your policy.
 
lotr10 said:
What are babbling about here?

And what kind of masks are you talking about? When most of us say "masks don't work" we're referring to cloth and disposable surgical masks. You know the ones that 99% of the public wore during the covid outbreak. And we're saying this based on the overwhelming scientific & medical evidence that shows that these types of masks don't work against the airborne covid virus.

If the main avenue of viral transmission is through liquid droplets like those coming from spittle and sneezing, the surgical masks, if changed regularly (like every 20 minutes) and worn properly can provide some protection. But early on it was shown that covid wasn't spread this way.

And there is also a huge difference between professionals properly wearing the surgical masks and the vast majority of people who either wear the masks below the nose or mouth, try to mask over a beard or never throw out the surgical masks wearing them for days or even weeks at a time.
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Here we go again. More diversion and side stepping. Just stop.

The primary threat Steve Scalise is trying to minimize with his mask is a contagious virus. It is not pollen, dust, or bacteria. Duh.
 
lotr10 said:
This is a situation where size matters. The typical covid viral particle is about 0.1 microns (100 nm) while the typical dust you can kick up is between 10 - 100 microns. And guess what lives in household dust? Dust mites which in the healthy can trigger all sorts of allergic responses. It's why you might want to remove carpet in the homes of the immunocompromised while making sure to dust several times per day.

Oh and dust mites are about 10 microns in size. That's about 100 times bigger then your covid particles.

As an aside have you ever mowed a lawn? And do you ever sneeze or get a runny nose or itchy eyes when your head gets covered in that cloud of dust & plant debris the mower kicks up?
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Steve Scalise is not trying to avoid dust particles. WTF.
 
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