y2h
Well-known member
She thought she was under attack Jan 6th while safely blocks away.
Man dies after being put in a chokehold by another rider on New York City subway
- Thread starter Yappi
- Start date
He’s certainly deserving of a significant amount of the credit...along with his chief (Bratton). Other factors as well, but Rudy is entitled to a big share of the credit.They applauded Giulianis record of cleaning up NY every chance they got
I guess that means we’re now acknowledging that crime dropped dramatically in NYC over several decades.
Looks like both to me. And, of course, at least to this point, we haven’t seen the beginning of it.
But this isn’t like a polite political conversation where you have your opinion and I have mine. A jury will be given an instruction on the laws in the State of New York. What they will be read (depending on the testimony) will likely be self defense law and maybe (my speculation) the laws related to a citizen’s arrest.
It will focus on this word…REASONABLE. Bluntly…was it reasonable to kill him? And speculation about what MIGHT happen…that doesn’t cut it. Anything is possible. Did he strike people? Did he have a weapon? Did he threaten anyone (other than himself)? Did the Marine interpose himself reasonably to prevent a violent attack on others (based on what he knew at that moment, not what was learned later about the deceased)? Did the Marine (or anyone) have defensive wounds or other injuries? Was it reasonable to continue to choke him (until death) over 15 minutes (e.g., maybe the Marine’s behavior could be deemed reasonable initially but not over the entire time).
And the application and understanding of what is reasonable will be decided by the “locals”…NYC citizens who ride the subway and deal with street people on a regular basis.
cabezadecaballo
Well-known member
I mentioned the Marine being, possibly, out of his element. I work in Downtown Cleveland M-F and have been a regular there (including passing through it for high school) for about 50 years. Like any other of our life experiences, I’ve learned some things, over time, about how to deal with street people. I’ve never been assaulted…no one’s ever put their hands on me. I‘ve given money to panhandlers on occasion…though very infrequently. A resident of a big city learns how to deal with street people. If you want to be left alone, you develop a “leave me alone” demeanor. It works.
cabezadecaballo
Well-known member
That's what CA typically does, yes.
He misrepresents reality for a living. Further, once he's in here, he does so in a politically partisan manner and extends that type of deception or obfuscation to all social issues, as he owes that living to a Party and he evidently feels that his needs are best met by keeping that Party in power. Whatever it takes.
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cabezadecaballo
Well-known member
cabezadecaballo
Well-known member
No one runs away from that fact but you loons, when you deny that traditional leadership, methods, and policies provide the only viable solutions for the chaos created by Demarxists' leniency and enablement of the actual criminal sociopaths you not only coddle, but release and inflict upon the public repeatedly.
cabezadecaballo
Well-known member
BS
THAT is only the question IF prosecutors demonstrate that Penny wanted to kill the nut to restrain the nut. He just wanted to immobilize the nut to the extent that he wasn't a threat to others.
Did the dead crazy man have a known history of violent behavior ? That is the first question. Was he a known quantity to his fellow passengers on his final day of nuttery ?
cabezadecaballo
Well-known member
Cool story.
Sometimes it works, other times it doesn't. Part of what makes loons loony is obviously the unpredictable nature of their actions.
cabezadecaballo
Well-known member
WTF is this pile of crap^?
Crazy and utterly unable to be "handled" can easily and quite obviously be "an everyday occurrence", building dread of an "inevitable" repeat explosion.
This is a great example of facts without context being misleading to the discussion at hand. So what happened as a result of the dangerous spike in NY City murders early in the 1990's? Ultra Liberal and woke NY City elected the right wing cave man RUDY GIULIANI as Mayor. And they gave him TWO TERMS to clean up the mess.
Now, as NY City leadership becomes increasingly democrat again the murders are going back up. With this new DA in charge the increase in murders & violent crime will accelerate. And charging this marine with any crime will really give it a boost.
The "legal theory" is simple - laws are intended to benefit society and it is beneficial if society promotes the actions of good Samaritans. This is NOT vigilantism but the honest and generally effective intervention of citizens to protect & help other citizens when the authorities are unable to intercede.
A healthy society would be very reluctant to ever punish good Samaritans even if their actions go awry. If you penalize virtuous cycles those cycles stop.
As a direct result of Giuliani's actions, a demographic decline in the numbers of young males, and a commitment to jail repeat offenders.
And instead of doubling down on what worked before, democrats in these states & city's are embracing:
* less aggressive policing
* avoiding jailing repeat offenders
* and worse of all charging good Samaritans like this marine with a crime for his actions.
It's not unreasonable to conclude that by these actions democrat leadership is deliberately trying to turn these city's back into the hell holes they were in the 1970's/1980's.
Murder went down starting with Dinkins (peaked in 1990…2245); went down hugely under Rudy (starting in ‘94); continued to drop under Bloomberg; reached historic lows under DiBlasio (292 in ‘17 and 295 in ‘18); increased for the next few years (as it did everywhere else), going up to 488 in ‘21; started dropping in ‘22 (438)…down 13% so far in ‘23…will likely be back in the 300’s this year.
Overall, a safe city, under mayors of all THREE parties.
So, no, the murders are not going up. They’ve been dropping for a year and a half. And, overall, NYC has great crime stats for a city of its size.
Any prosecutor that acts in this way should be removed from office. Their job is to determine if a person committed a crime or not. It's not to throw a suspect to the mercy of the community. Basically you are describing a prosecutor as the lead person in a lynching.
He will likely have a chance to explain himself to a jury of subway riders. They’ll decide. Lots not known about this…yet.
Well, then all I can say is that you’re ignorant.
A more accurate reading of the data would be that murders were very high under Dinkins and were bouncing around in a steady state. They dropped significantly under Giuliani and remained low under subsequent Mayors because of the residual effects of Guiliani's actions. Murder rates are ticking back up and I suspect as a result of the work of people like Alvin Bragg they will continue to rise.
Or maybe you have a grossly inflated view of DA's and judges. After all they're only lawyers. Consider this for example. It's another city but it makes my point about the quality of some of these people:
Suspect in Phoenix stabbing murder of Lauren Heike previously charged with armed robbery, kidnapping
The suspect has been identified as 22-year-old Zion Williams Teasley.
thepostmillennial.com
No, murders are not ticking back up. You’re a liar. 488 (‘21); 438 (‘22)…down 13% in the first quarter of ‘23
cabezadecaballo
Well-known member
In part because they often choose to not acknowledge some large part of the crime that is happening.
It's a necessary step in "humanizing" a clearly dangerous violent criminal. De-emphasize the brutal attack on the old women and stress this mans unhappy childhood. The next step is for the NY City legal system to do all it can to keep him out of jail. But in this case keeping him out of jail is not an option thanks to the efforts of the good Samaritan. And they are pissed off at the marine for doing this. Now they will bring the full weight and authority of our legal system crashing down on the good Samaritan's head.
These numbers bounce around based on all kinds of things. If its foolish to go quarter by quarter for a Corporation's stock price or sales (and it is) it's even dumber to do it for things like violent crime rates in a city. I would suggest looking at the data in one, two & three year increments to get a correct read on where the trends are taking you.
You already showed what a REAL drop in murder looks like with your 1990 data. What we're seeing now is noise with a trend upwards.
When a nations legal system punishes a good Samaritan, and charging this man is a form of punishment, it is no longer serving the best interests of that nation.
Use the process that happens in all cases. Investigate. Take statements from witnesses. Videos. Coroner/toxicology. Background of both deceased and the putative accused. Forward to prosecutor. Review the applicable laws. Make decisions on what charges, if any, you want to pursue. Present to a Grand Jury (whether you want him charged or not). If a charge is brought (likely manslaughter), try the case to a jury of local citizens. Defendant has the opportunity to explain his actions…most importantly, his state of mind…or let the videos speak FOR him.
That’s fair, just…to everyone. Maybe the jury will agree…or fail to unanimously disagree.
Omar
Well-known member
He should’ve never been charged.