Jim Harbaugh

Orin Swift

Well-known member
Yeah doesn’t really make sense to fire Brown earlier this week and wait to fire Harbaugh a month later. But Michigan does weird things all the time so who knows.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
The rationale makes no sense...if they waited a month, it would totally screw over the next coach as far as trying to find his own guys for the current recruiting cycle.
 

bob99

Well-known member
The rationale makes no sense...if they waited a month, it would totally screw over the next coach as far as trying to find his own guys for the current recruiting cycle.
As a Buckeye fan I am perfectly happy having Harbaugh stay at Michigan. Can't complain about the results so far.:)
 

falguin

Well-known member
I think they should stay with him. He's done a better job than any of the other coaches they've recently had. This year needs to be thrown out because of covid. Trying to coach in a place like Michgan with all of its crazy shutdown rules would be impossible. The state of Michigan hurt both teams ability to get ready. I know Harbaugh has not done well against tOSU, but since Cooper left, no U of M coach inclusing Carr has done well against the Buckeyes. Yeah, Harbaugh is 2-11 against top ten teams, but take the Buckeyes out of the equation and it's not so bad. His problem is that Michigan can't recruit nationally well. They used to invade Ohio and take a lot of our players, but we don't have the numbers we once had, which enabled them to get good players from here, and tOSU pretty much locks down all of the top prospects here now, so they need to look elsewhere because there isn't great talent in Michigan. Fickel would be crazy to go there. He has it rolling at UC, and he should just wait until Day moves on to the NFL, and then he can get the job. If Day decides to stay, then Fickel should take a job that has the resources and the recruiting potential to win a NC and that is not Michigan. USC would be a better place for Fickel or possibly Texas in a year or two.
 

Auggie

Well-known member
Looks like Harbaugh is going to sign an extension with a big haircut in salary including a reduced buyout. Some chatter that the Athletic Admin threw out some feelers for the gig and the response back was cool. Maybe UM takes the savings and invests into their assistants?
 

OldSoulon

Well-known member
Looks like Harbaugh is going to sign an extension with a big haircut in salary including a reduced buyout. Some chatter that the Athletic Admin threw out some feelers for the gig and the response back was cool. Maybe UM takes the savings and invests into their assistants?
Looks like nobody really wants Harbaugh out there, either.

If they did, he would have been gone.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
What a disaster. "Reduced buyout" is going to be napalm in terms of negative recruiting by other coaches. On the trail other schools are going to be talking about him like he already has one foot in the grave and will be a goner without an exceptional turnaround.

On social media they are literally being laughed at by writers and journalists, especially Ohio State guys. Whichever personal assistant or GA that runs the Ohio State football Twitter liked a ton of tweets last night of articles about the alleged Harbaugh extension. The manner of this weak recommitment between Harbaugh and Michigan is going to doom the program to mediocrity until they actually part ways.
 

OldSoulon

Well-known member
What a disaster. "Reduced buyout" is going to be napalm in terms of negative recruiting by other coaches. On the trail other schools are going to be talking about him like he already has one foot in the grave and will be a goner without an exceptional turnaround.

On social media they are literally being laughed at by writers and journalists, especially Ohio State guys. Whichever personal assistant or GA that runs the Ohio State football Twitter liked a ton of tweets last night of articles about the alleged Harbaugh extension. The manner of this weak recommitment between Harbaugh and Michigan is going to doom the program to mediocrity until they actually part ways.
You only back down on your compensation if you got nowhere else to go.
 

nutsnbolts

Active member
What a disaster. "Reduced buyout" is going to be napalm in terms of negative recruiting by other coaches. On the trail other schools are going to be talking about him like he already has one foot in the grave and will be a goner without an exceptional turnaround.

On social media they are literally being laughed at by writers and journalists, especially Ohio State guys. Whichever personal assistant or GA that runs the Ohio State football Twitter liked a ton of tweets last night of articles about the alleged Harbaugh extension. The manner of this weak recommitment between Harbaugh and Michigan is going to doom the program to mediocrity until they actually part ways.
UM knows they don't have any great candidates wanting their HC job. And they HOPE Harbaugh will perform better at some point.
Harbaugh KNOWS he has underperformed, but this is still his dream job. He is also HOPING that he does better and can then go after more money.
And I doubt that anyone able and willing to pay a HC more would offer the job to him at this time.
 

Omar

Well-known member
Who knows, Have the playoffs killed the ability for teams to rise? Maybe I'm not a Michigan fan but I would like to see them rise. I just don't see the elite talent.
It’s more about OSU being on such a dominant streak. In general, he’s recruited pretty well at Michigan.
 

I enjoy wrestling

Well-known member
It’s more about OSU being on such a dominant streak. In general, he’s recruited pretty well at Michigan.
How many 5 star recruits does Michigan get? I'm not trying to put down Michigan football. I just don't see the few players that make an impact. Most of College fans would love to have the success Michigan is having. But, it's not the Michigan I remember. Arguably the greatest NFL QB of all time came from Michigan. One of the greatest DB's in NFL history came from Michigan.
 

Omar

Well-known member
How many 5 star recruits does Michigan get? I'm not trying to put down Michigan football. I just don't see the few players that make an impact. Most of College fans would love to have the success Michigan is having. But, it's not the Michigan I remember. Arguably the greatest NFL QB of all time came from Michigan. One of the greatest DB's in NFL history came from Michigan.

I’m not sure how many 5*, but this class is top 10 and they landed one of the top QB prospects.
 

nutsnbolts

Active member
I
How many 5 star recruits does Michigan get? I'm not trying to put down Michigan football. I just don't see the few players that make an impact. Most of College fans would love to have the success Michigan is having. But, it's not the Michigan I remember. Arguably the greatest NFL QB of all time came from Michigan. One of the greatest DB's in NFL history came from Michigan.
In 2019 I think it was 24/7 that rated ttun with the best recruiting class in the BIG 10 and tOSU third.
To me Harbaugh doesn't look genuine. He WANTS to be good, but isn't a motivator. He needs to change to get the loyalty that Tom Allen has from his players at Indiana. Fancy trips just aren't enough. So - he has a disadvantage. He needs to recruit players with talent, but they also need to have their own motivation - because he is uninspiring.

As Omar states - their recruiting has been pretty darned good.
 

Orin Swift

Well-known member
In 2019 I think it was 24/7 that rated ttun with the best recruiting class in the BIG 10 and tOSU third.

Kind of. They had a higher score because they (and Penn State) signed more players. 247 also noted that OSU had the highest average recruit ranking in the conference.
 

nutsnbolts

Active member
Kind of. They had a higher score because they (and Penn State) signed more players. 247 also noted that OSU had the highest average recruit ranking in the conference.
So - what do you think.
1. They are performing about right for that talent?
2. They don't have good enough talent?
3. They have an X & O problem?

Or something entirely different?
 

Orin Swift

Well-known member
So - what do you think.
1. They are performing about right for that talent?
2. They don't have good enough talent?
3. They have an X & O problem?

Or something entirely different?

I think it's a combination of all 3. If you average out his last 5 classes he's right around 12th in terms of average player rating. Outside of last year and this year he's somewhat close to that finish.

I don't know what Harbaugh is doing but their interior dline has not been good the last 2 years and was trash this year and he's signed exactly 0 DT in the 2020 or 2021 classes. They signed 2 blue chipper DTs in 2019 but those guys are going into their 3rd year this coming season and there is no younger players on the depth chart behind them. He lets certain position groups wither away. Not every position has to be filled with high 4* and 5* but you can't ignore an entire position. Then he's essentially eschewed Ohio in favor of....3* talent from the New England area and I'm not talking New Jersey.

And finally they definitely have an X & O problem. It's an antiquated offense for starters. They have Zach Charbonnet who was a 5* or borderline 5* and averaged 5 yards a carry on 11.5 carries per game as a true freshman last year. And this year he averaged less than 4 carries a game. When he did get the ball he had an average of 6.5 yards per carry. Why is Harbaugh/Gattis not getting him the ball more? And we all know how easily Ryan Day has exploited Don Brown's defense, as did Wisconsin and Alabama last year, Florida the year before.
 

Orin Swift

Well-known member
Poor QB development is another huge issue.

Good call, completely forgot about player development. Look at their 3 biggest names since Harbaugh has been there: Gary, Patterson and Peppers. Patterson transferred in and did not improve in the slightest. In fact he greatly regressed his 2nd year at Michigan and final year in college. Gary never flashed at Michigan. He was good but never a difference maker, at least in the big games. I still think his was drafted in the 1st due mostly to potential and athletic ability. And finally Peppers. Harbaugh screwed Peppers and himself. He was moved around so much in his 3 years there he never truly learned how to play a single position. He made it through college football on his insanely elite athleticism alone.
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
Major problem with one or both of player development and meshing talent to scheme IMO.

I don't understand the Charbonnet situation at all. He was very productive as a freshman despite supposedly having lingering injury issues, and as a healthy sophomore he was at best very underutilized while being very productive in limited touches. They'd be fortunate if he doesn't transfer with how badly they underutilized him this year. There'd be several higher-end P5 teams that would pursue him if he entered the transfer portal.
 

warren1st

Active member
UM knows they don't have any great candidates wanting their HC job. And they HOPE Harbaugh will perform better at some point.
Harbaugh KNOWS he has underperformed, but this is still his dream job. He is also HOPING that he does better and can then go after more money.
And I doubt that anyone able and willing to pay a HC more would offer the job to him at this time.
Good post. It shows you are very fair in your evaluations. He was way over-paid but it’s still is his dream job and, frankly, he’s still making more than most big time coaches. I think he got caught up in nepotism also.

The UM president needs to go and I believe any head of a school like Michigan or OSU must have a firm understanding about sports and football in particular. If not, Michigan is toast.
 

Orin Swift

Well-known member
The UM president needs to go and I believe any head of a school like Michigan or OSU must have a firm understanding about sports and football in particular. If not, Michigan is toast.

Agreed. Michigan doesn't need to sell its soul to football for it to be rather successful but the current UM President seems to be deadset on handcuffing the program for whatever reason.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
I really have no dog in this fight but why does Harbaugh get a pass? One of the highest paid coaches in the country and he has not produced. UM has had talent too. People believing there was a talent shortage are wrong. It is equally as bad to blame and fire coordinators. Those are Harbaugh's hires.

At least the new OC is the best they have had of the last three. They ran off Mattison and Washington.

And the excuse that no one else wants so the job so keep Harbaugh is utter BS. There are a bunch of really good coaches who would take the UM job and out perform Harbaugh.

Chew on this, Harbaugh's best team was with Hoke talent. I think the guy is a joke and I completely get why the OSU fans want him staying around.
 

Omar

Well-known member
I really have no dog in this fight but why does Harbaugh get a pass? One of the highest paid coaches in the country and he has not produced. UM has had talent too. People believing there was a talent shortage are wrong. It is equally as bad to blame and fire coordinators. Those are Harbaugh's hires.

At least the new OC is the best they have had of the last three. They ran off Mattison and Washington.

And the excuse that no one else wants so the job so keep Harbaugh is utter BS. There are a bunch of really good coaches who would take the UM job and out perform Harbaugh.

Chew on this, Harbaugh's best team was with Hoke talent. I think the guy is a joke and I completely get why the OSU fans want him staying around.
I don’t think he gets a pass. They’re clearly a lot better under Harbaugh than Hoke or Rich Rod, but bc he can’t beat OSU, he gets crucified. I think it’s partially justified but also a little unfair. Nobody beats OSU consistently.
 

irish_buffalo

Well-known member
I don’t think he gets a pass. They’re clearly a lot better under Harbaugh than Hoke or Rich Rod, but bc he can’t beat OSU, he gets crucified. I think it’s partially justified but also a little unfair. Nobody beats OSU consistently.
We can disagree. Since his good team of 2016 they have routinely under performed. Any other coach is out.
 
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