Ichiro Suzuki, CC Sabathia, Billy Wagner elected to Hall of Fame

 
Here is the vote:

Ichiro Suzuki 393 (99.7%)
CC Sabathia 342 (86.8)
Billy Wagner 325 (82.5)
Carlos Beltrán 277 (70.3)
Andruw Jones 261 (66.2)
Chase Utley 157 (39.8)
Álex Rodríguez 146 (37.1)
Manny Ramírez 135 (34.3)
Andy Pettitte 110 (27.9)
Félix Hernández 81 (20.6)
Bobby Abreu 77 (19.5)
Jimmy Rollins 71 (18.0)
Omar Vizquel 70 (17.8)
Dustin Pedroia 47 (11.9)
Mark Buehrle 45 (11.4)
Francisco Rodríguez 40 (10.2)
David Wright 32 (8.1)
Torii Hunter 20 (5.1)
Ian Kinsler 10 (2.5)
Russell Martin 9 (2.3)
Brian McCann 7 (1.8)
Troy Tulowitzki 4 (1.0)
Curtis Granderson 3 (0.8)
Adam Jones 3 (0.8)
Carlos González 2 (0.5)
Hanley Ramírez 0
Fernando Rodney 0
Ben Zobrist 0

Taking away issues, if I were voting, Alex Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez, and Omar Vizquel would be on my ballot.
 
Yappi said:

Ichiro Suzuki, CC Sabathia, Billy Wagner elected to Hall of Fame - BBWAA

Ichiro Suzuki, a veritable hits machine on both sides of the Pacific Ocean, became the first Japanese player to gain entry into the National Baseball Hall of Fame when he was elected Tuesday to the Class of 2025 alongside pitchers CC Sabathia and Billy Wagner by the Baseball Writers’ Association...
bbwaa.com bbwaa.com
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So CC gets in, but Schilling is still not?! The baseball writers and their HOF are laughable.
 
Ichiro, CC yes. Wagner, honestly I could not remember what team he played exclusively for, and it was the Astros. I just think these days of guys changing teams, we lose track of them. Closers are kind of hard to qualify sometimes. Obviously a guy like Mariano Rivera stands out so much because of his consistency and numbers. But numbers many times don't tell the whole story. Many closers acquire saves just being in the back end of the bullpen on a good team. I don't know that I ever saw Wagner as a great closer.
 
14Red said:
Ichiro, CC yes. Wagner, honestly I could not remember what team he played exclusively for, and it was the Astros. I just think these days of guys changing teams, we lose track of them. Closers are kind of hard to qualify sometimes. Obviously a guy like Mariano Rivera stands out so much because of his consistency and numbers. But numbers many times don't tell the whole story. Many closers acquire saves just being in the back end of the bullpen on a good team. I don't know that I ever saw Wagner as a great closer.
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Same. Even closers on the worst teams get 30 saves.
 
cjb5656 said:
Same. Even closers on the worst teams get 30 saves.
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OK, assume for a minute that you are right (you aren't). Now do that consistently for 13 or 14 years, and you have Wagner's great career (422 saves). He was not just a normal closer.

FYI in 2024 8 pitchers had 30+ saves. 15 pitchers had 25+ saves. half of the teams.
 
wolves82 said:
OK, assume for a minute that you are right (you aren't). Now do that consistently for 13 or 14 years, and you have Wagner's great career (422 saves). He was not just a normal closer.

FYI in 2024 8 pitchers had 30+ saves. 15 pitchers had 25+ saves. half of the teams.
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Sure, he was great at what he did, but I don’t value the closers in the one inning era all that much. How often does a team leading in the 9th lose anyway? Probably not often, percentage-wise. If this was the 1970s or 1980s when closers were throwing three innings a game in some cases, I’m more impressed. Now if you do value the modern closer position then Wagner has a solid case.
 
cjb5656 said:
Sure, he was great at what he did, but I don’t value the closers in the one inning era all that much. How often does a team leading in the 9th lose anyway? Probably not often, percentage-wise. If this was the 1970s or 1980s when closers were throwing three innings a game in some cases, I’m more impressed. Now if you do value the modern closer position then Wagner has a solid case.
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We agree that closers are overvalued in general.

I had this debate on the Reds thread a few years ago with 14Red and found that as an MLB average around 82-83% of save opportunities in the 9th inning were saved. The better guys are in the 86-90% range. Easy examples - last year Alexis Diaz was 28-32, so 87%. Hader, Iglesias, Yates, Foley, Jansen all in that range. Clase was 47-50 = 94% - elite. Same with Helsley (49-53 = 92%).

So the difference between an average closer and a good closer is 4 or 5% annually, so 1-3 wins extra per year. It is not worth spending a ton of money on a closer, unless you have a special one.

Only a few are special and can do it at that percentage for 10+ years. Like Wagner. He did it for 14 years around 88% with an ERA of 2.3 and a WHIP under 1.0. He belongs in the Hall. Why it took 10 years is beyond me. Probably upset a few sports writers with snarky comments and they got their feelings hurt.
 
wolves82 said:
We agree that closers are overvalued in general.

I had this debate on the Reds thread a few years ago with 14Red and found that as an MLB average around 82-83% of save opportunities in the 9th inning were saved. The better guys are in the 86-90% range. Easy examples - last year Alexis Diaz was 28-32, so 87%. Hader, Iglesias, Yates, Foley, Jansen all in that range. Clase was 47-50 = 94% - elite. Same with Helsley (49-53 = 92%).

So the difference between an average closer and a good closer is 4 or 5% annually, so 1-3 wins extra per year. It is not worth spending a ton of money on a closer, unless you have a special one.

Only a few are special and can do it at that percentage for 10+ years. Like Wagner. He did it for 14 years around 88% with an ERA of 2.3 and a WHIP under 1.0. He belongs in the Hall. Why it took 10 years is beyond me. Probably upset a few sports writers with snarky comments and they got their feelings hurt.
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Yes. Ideally you want that elite level closer, especially for the postseason, though closers took a beating in this past postseason.
 
I honestly remember very little about Billy Wagner. Ichiro was amazing. Saw him as a rookie playing at CLE and I have never seen a player run as fast from home to first as he did. Loved CC. Such an easy, natural delivery. I wish his entire career would have been with CLE. Dave Parker might have been the most athletically gifted player to ever play the game. Dick Allen was my first ever favorite player. He could mash like no other. Plus, Tom Hamilton goes in as a broadcaster. This will be the first time I’ve ever been in Cooperstown for the actual induction ceremony. I always said I would go if Dick Allen ever got in, and I’ll be there. I wish he would’ve lived to be there too.
 
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