CometssFan88
Member
60-70+
How many baseball players trying out for your HS in 2024?
- Thread starter Yappi
- Start date
CJEagle2014
New member
Hard to believe. When I was there we always had 30-35. They probably haven’t made cuts in 8-9 years. Carroll and Alter currently without a JV and CJ could be next if things don’t change.
David Wooderson
Active member
I've heard that some of the Suburban League teams had 70+ trying out. I think they all have freshmen or JVB teams, so about 50-60 kids made rosters. So numbers are still fairly strong at the larger schools. But the talent is a bit dispersed a bit from what I understand. Big disparities between the top players and the bottom players. And not enough top players to keep the bottom planers on the bench. This is especially affecting schools that have lacrosse, which is growing in popularity every year. Some great athletes playing lacrosse in NE Ohio that would otherwise be great baseball players for their high schools.
The good news is that if global warming is real (and it sure seems like it the past two winters), kids are going to be able to get out on fields sooner. I've heard some schools are already on their fields practicing and even some are having split squad scrimmages. That is awesome! Maybe northern baseball won't die a slow death after all.
The good news is that if global warming is real (and it sure seems like it the past two winters), kids are going to be able to get out on fields sooner. I've heard some schools are already on their fields practicing and even some are having split squad scrimmages. That is awesome! Maybe northern baseball won't die a slow death after all.
Ah yes, JVB, the glorified technicality ridden freshmen team. This concept has made assigning super fun when scheduling, assigning, and paying.
lightspeed84
Well-known member
I umped a couple games for the the various Defiance youth teams which have some sort of school or community association, all were well coached and had some good ball players. Whatever Defiance is doing, its working
David Wooderson
Active member
I don't know about that. I think JVB sounds more demeaning than freshman. When I was a freshman parent back in the day, I would've been a little bit bummed at the JVB concept. There is no honor in playing for any B team.
Philly_Cat
Well-known member
If you're a freshman why would it matter if it's JVB or freshman? Freshman team would be all freshman. JVB would be almost all freshman with a few sophomores. Again, as a freshman why would that affect you at all?I don't know about that. I think JVB sounds more demeaning than freshman. When I was a freshman parent back in the day, I would've been a little bit bummed at the JVB concept. There is no honor in playing for any B team.
CometssFan88
Member
it makes more sense for bigger schools to have their jv-b teams to play little schools jv teams.I don't know about that. I think JVB sounds more demeaning than freshman. When I was a freshman parent back in the day, I would've been a little bit bummed at the JVB concept. There is no honor in playing for any B team.
at little schools their jv teams are freshmen heavy or not that talented
also if u have 70 kids trying out. u can keep say 12 freshman on jv-b with a couple sophomores sprinkled in while the jv-a will have some more competitive kids that just cant crack the lineup at these bigger schools until they are older
Sadly its the freshmen parents who are mad because Timmy made JV and Timmy was in their mind a terrible player for the 9 years of "Select" baseball they played with the rest of the true freshmen team who are actually on the freshmen team.I don't know about that. I think JVB sounds more demeaning than freshman. When I was a freshman parent back in the day, I would've been a little bit bummed at the JVB concept. There is no honor in playing for any B team.
Been there, heard it, seen it, hate it.
Oh my how did we ever all survive being cut in HS sports?
Peak
Member
I know in SWO the Freshman teams are almost all gone. I think half of the GMC had freshman teams last year. Mason moved to a 2 JV team (Green and White) because their freshman team last year had to find games to play when they barely had any conference games.
@umpire16 you may think two JV teams are a joke, but what would you suggest to do with those freshman kids who want to play but aren't able to do so because other schools in their conference can't/don't field freshman teams? Why should those be punished (cut) because the school just opted to fold the freshman team? At least those schools who are willing/able to field 2 JV teams with underclassmen are giving them an opportunity to play, improve their game, and come back to compete for a Varsity spot next year. But I guess you'd rather cut them now, leave them out of the Spring season and behind their peers as they wait for a summer ball opportunity to begin 3 months later?
I think it's a valid question re: punishing them as you put it when other schools don't freshmen teams.
There are non-conference schools with these teams. The idea of "Conference games" for freshmen - outside of learning some of their future opponents - is worthless. Same as the JH Baseball tourney where half the league participates only, three schools have two teams who end up playing each other anyway in the bracket, and you have nothing but watered down competition.
My counter to you is this: When you keep two JV teams, you are just delaying the inevitable. And we know the two teams will never be equal, many kids will not grow, and most of them will play for non-HS teams anyway because they (and their families) will believe the rhetoric they've been fed since 'select' coach pitch that travel ball is better anyway.
I'd rather see it ended in 9th grade than junior year when Mom and Dad want to sue the coach because little Johnny was on an "elite team" then played JV for three years (because there was no freshmen team!) and got the stick right before senior year when there were 30 seniors who all thought they should be on varsity (and many were the past year or two). Doing it early would at least alleviate them the chance to play another spring sport (or continue playing "elite" travel baseball which they are probably going to do anyway with a chip on their shoulder for being cut."
My oldest son played on the "B" travel team (the joke of a league it was in being grist for another mill) for basketball from 3rd-6th, then got cut from the 7th team in MS, made the 8th and rode the bench, then got cut in HS as a freshmen and ended up swimming for four years and was an all-league his senior year with 2nd team his junior year. So I'd say him getting the news earlier rather than later while his BB colleagues had a sub-.500 record for the next four years was the better scenario rather than him possibly being on "JVB" and sitting the bench while they got beat by half the league in basketball over and over.
When we stopped learning to cut, have hard conversations (and I've been part of many in nearly 30 years), and let the parents drive this, we started to fail our kids.
David Wooderson
Active member
I was mostly kidding. Hence the
I get it that in some cases a JV-B team makes more sense than a freshmen team. I would be bummed though if my freshman playing son was good enough to play JV-A, but was only placed on the B team because he was still a freshman. Thankfully, those days have passed.CometssFan88
Member
thats not the point
i am saying logistically speaking it makes sense
if anything, it actually makes less kids get cut?
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Philly_Cat
Well-known member
These kids on JVB aren't kids that would have been cut. They are at schools that always have 3 teams. That's not changing. The only things that changing is the name of the 3rd team, and possibly a handful of sophomores being on that 3rd team.
Schools normally go to a JVB team for one of two reasons. The first is the amount of freshman they have for that year are too low to sustain a proper team for the whole season. Usually when you get stuck at that 12 to 15 number. Hard to have enough arms to pitch and way too many quality players to cut them all. You're better justified with keeping kids that can begin their journey of learning the program. Or as others have pointed out, they do JVB because there's not enough true freshman teams in the area to get games with.
Now if your numbers don't justify 3 teams that's another story. That 45-55 number at tryouts is where you're looking to cut kids to just have two teams. It's all about pure numbers along with talent (and sometimes staffing) when it comes to these decisions on the amount of kids to keep. It's rarely, if ever, about being soft and scared to hurt people's feelings if you cut them.
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Philly_Cat
Well-known member
Usually when you get rid of the freshman label and change it to JVB it allows the staff more freedom with moving kids around. Your freshman kid may have a better chance of moving from the JVB team to JVA than he would the freshman team to JV. Since JVB doesn't have to just have freshman on it, that opens more opportunities for freshman that otherwise wouldn't be there when a less talented sophomore must stay on JV because he can't move down to the freshman team.I was mostly kidding. Hence the
BASESWIMPARENT
Well-known member
My kid played at Lakota West 2017 to 2020. They had a freshman, JV and Varsity. Two freshmen played on the JV. A couple of sophomores were on the varsity team. There was some movement between the JV and varsity in terms of juniors and sophomores getting playing time. At the time, Mason had 2 freshman teams, a JV and a Varsity. The whole GMC had freshman teams. My guess is that Colerain, Princeton, Sycamore and maybe Oak Hills no longer has Freshman teams.
thePITman
Well-known member
Our school has had a JV B team for the last 3 years. The first year it was mostly freshmen with 2-4 sophomores, but it was our first time having the team, so we didn't want to call it Freshman when we had non-freshmen playing on it. (don't want to hurt their feelings that they are non-freshmen playing on the Freshman team) But ever since then, everyone got tired of calling it the "JV B" (it's just clunky to say in conversation, plus it's easier to just have V, JV, F teams), so we just started calling it a Freshman team with the understanding of the non-freshmen that it was really a JV B team with the "Freshman" title as a technicality.
In the end, regardless of what you call it, the kids are playing baseball, and that's what matters.
In the end, regardless of what you call it, the kids are playing baseball, and that's what matters.
That is sad if gmc schools can no longer field 3 hs teams. Oak Hills was a "baseball" school for a long time. I am sure Hamilton and Middletown struggle to field a freshmen team. Not many kids come out of the wsll program to Hamilton any longer.
Peak
Member
Add Middletown to that list and you're spot on. Mason had a freshman team until last year. They went back to a 2 JV team model this year to ensure kids get more playing time in and out of the GMC.
93 red ls
Well-known member
oakhills has freshmen been the same guy coaching for 10+ years
Wildcats1886
Well-known member
About 20 years ago, Ignatius had 100+ freshmen trying out annually for the freshman team, then probably another 50 or so for JV and Varsity. I’d imagine the popularity of Lacrosse and Rugby (now two of the larger programs at Ignatius) has cut into these numbers significantly.
CometssFan88
Member
youd think playin 3 games in JAPAN would cause their tryout #s to skyrocket
Wildcats1886
Well-known member
Rugby has been doing this for years - they played several games in Japan last year and have also played in France, Ireland, and South Africa.
BASESWIMPARENT
Well-known member
Good!
Yappi
Go Buckeyes
Imo, schools shouldn't be cutting kids until they field three full teams in any sport. That could be a traditional V, JV, F or V, JVA, JVB or V, V(B), JV.
I've seen too many coaches who just want to coach the stars and drive away the rest of the players. It is a school function, teaching the kids is the #1 job.
I've seen too many coaches who just want to coach the stars and drive away the rest of the players. It is a school function, teaching the kids is the #1 job.
thePITman
Well-known member
There are some numbers that are difficult, though. If you're around 26-29, that's usually not enough for a freshman team due to the excessive overlap between the players who play both the JV and freshman/JV B games. And since each kid can only play on so many days per year, you have to tell some kids they can't play certain days to make sure you don't go over the allotted days. It gets really dicey trying to manage all those numbers and still be able to field a team for every JV and freshman game. If it's simply not possible to make it work, in some cases you're better off cutting the bottom 2-3 to get it down to 24-25, but it also depends on the level of talent in those bottom tier - if they all could seriously challenge for playing time on the JV team, or if any of those bottom tier players literally put the rest of the team in danger when participating in team throwing drills (believe me, this is a real thing). Not an easy decision either way.
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Yappi
Go Buckeyes
Our local school typically kept 30-36 for just two teams.
The number of days shouldn't be an issue as each team gets 27 games and each player gets 32 days. A player that plays in the JV game and Varsity game on the same day only counts as one "day". Players can be on the roster of each team the school fields.
One season when our school had 36 players, they played a Varsity schedule and a JV schedule. They also picked up about 5 Freshman-only games to let the players who didn't play on JV much a chance to get some games in. The biggest issue was field availability,
The number of days shouldn't be an issue as each team gets 27 games and each player gets 32 days. A player that plays in the JV game and Varsity game on the same day only counts as one "day". Players can be on the roster of each team the school fields.
One season when our school had 36 players, they played a Varsity schedule and a JV schedule. They also picked up about 5 Freshman-only games to let the players who didn't play on JV much a chance to get some games in. The biggest issue was field availability,