Gresham vs Korb SWOWCA Finals HD

tkdwn

Active member
From Red Lion Productions comes this high definition video of the 189lb finals match at Coaches Classic. As I watch it I scratch my head over the call at the end that determines the match. This is NOT an indictment of the refs, who in this case I think are excellent, but I would like to hear other opinions. I tip my hat to both Gresham and Korb, great athletes, they make southwest Ohio proud.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj4PVw7VAqE
 
Last edited:
 
Everyone is allowed an opinion here is mine: Gresham took maybe 3-4 good shots the entire match. He did very little the rest of the time. The first stall call, I have no problem with, the second was given at the wrong time. He had just shot his best effort with the duck under and came up short with it. Never should have been called at THAT time. However through the full 6 minutes if you study the tape, he did very little. Agreed he was wrestling with an excellent opponent and in college would never have been called for stalling. High school wrestling is officiated differently than college and to compare the both together is like apples to oranges. The 2nd call for stalling was wrong only because it was given at the wrong time. I expected much more action from both even though the competition was top notch.
 
I really wish our upper level guys down here would learn how to wrestle from top. It is apparent here neither of these guys even wanted to attempt to try and win the match from top. That same thing can be said about alot of our top level guys down here.
 
...He had just shot his best effort with the duck under and came up short with it. Never should have been called at THAT time. However through the full 6 minutes if you study the tape, he did very little...

I kind of agree with you, but the red wrestler deserved about 2 stall calls that match. Maybe not right then, but I think that he left it up to the ref's discretion. Didn't look like he was too determined to score on that duck attempt.

...in college would never have been called for stalling...

Haven't watched high school wrestling in quite a while, and I was thinking just the opposite. College refs are not fooled as easily by pushing and "hollow" shot attempts.
 
I really wish our upper level guys down here would learn how to wrestle from top. It is apparent here neither of these guys even wanted to attempt to try and win the match from top. That same thing can be said about alot of our top level guys down here.

If Ohio (especially SW Ohio) refs called matches like they do in PA, kids would work more on top....however in OH the refs will kill a kid with stalling on top if he doesn't turn the bottom guy. Put the responsibility on the bottom guy to get out....the kids will be much better prepared going into college
 
If Ohio (especially SW Ohio) refs called matches like they do in PA, kids would work more on top....however in OH the refs will kill a kid with stalling on top if he doesn't turn the bottom guy. Put the responsibility on the bottom guy to get out....the kids will be much better prepared going into college

Not sure I would say Gresham was passive. He attempted control with the russian; had a failed lateral; and had a few shots.
 
The above video reinforces what I saw in person. Ian Korb pushed the action and Chaz Gresham was more passive.

Here is another recent Chaz loss where he is totally dominated by the best 189 in the country, Morgan McIntosh. I wonder how Korb would do against this monster...

http://www.flowrestling.org/videos/...-finals-morgan-mcintosh-ca-vs-chaz-gresham-oh

McIntosh by major. No one comes close to McIntosh, and I don't want to hear about Evans keeping it close @ Ironman. If that match was on an actual mat instead of some pee wee mat, then that match would have been a major too. Evans was never close to scoring in that match.

As far as the Korb vs Gresham match, that ref needs to understand that no one came to see him. He completely blew that call. The refs in Cincinnati are absolutely horrible. It is not even fun to watch matches because of the inconsistency. A kid can't ride without the fear of a stall call in the first 30 seconds. All it takes is someone to yell, "he's stalling!" then bang.
 
McIntosh by major. No one comes close to McIntosh, and I don't want to hear about Evans keeping it close @ Ironman. If that match was on an actual mat instead of some pee wee mat, then that match would have been a major too. Evans was never close to scoring in that match.

As far as the Korb vs Gresham match, that ref needs to understand that no one came to see him. He completely blew that call. The refs in Cincinnati are absolutely horrible. It is not even fun to watch matches because of the inconsistency. A kid can't ride without the fear of a stall call in the first 30 seconds. All it takes is someone to yell, "he's stalling!" then bang.

Glad Korb won, but I don't disagree with you...local refs love the stalling calls, but there is no consistency from one ref to the next. Most refs do a great job, but as a group they have not set and do not follow a "stalling standard."

McIntosh by major is possible, Korb winning is also possible....they will likely meet at some point in college with one going to Penn and one to Penn State.
 
Everyone is allowed an opinion here is mine: Gresham took maybe 3-4 good shots the entire match. He did very little the rest of the time. The first stall call, I have no problem with, the second was given at the wrong time. He had just shot his best effort with the duck under and came up short with it. Never should have been called at THAT time. However through the full 6 minutes if you study the tape, he did very little. Agreed he was wrestling with an excellent opponent and in college would never have been called for stalling. High school wrestling is officiated differently than college and to compare the both together is like apples to oranges. The 2nd call for stalling was wrong only because it was given at the wrong time. I expected much more action from both even though the competition was top notch.


I disagree. Like Madcat said, I feel that if it were a college match he may have been hit for stalling a few more times.

Both wrestlers are great and best of luck to them the rest of the season. Both have bright futures in high school and college.
 
First of all, I just watched it for the first time. That was an incredibly boring match. Note, this is in no way to insult either wrestler. They both had a game plan, and I am in no position to question that. However, it was simply a boring match. Anyone that says otherwise is most likely bias.

Secondly, I would have called both wrestlers for stalling in the first period. I have no problem with the stalling call in the second period to give Korb a point. At that time, he was the only wrestler to really attempt to score. It did look bad, because at almost the exact time the ref decided to hit Gresham for stalling, Gresham reshot and was in his best position the entire match to score a takedown. Gresham finally opened up and was more aggressive in his attempt to score after the second stalling call.

Third, both wrestlers need some serious work on their riding skills if they want to succeed on the next level.

Lastly, IMO, Korb outwrestled Gresham in this particular match and deserved to win. I also think Korb is a better wrestler, but that is no knock really on Gresham. Gresham is very quick and explosive in his own right.
 
It is sad to say but cincinnati refs can not keep their self out of big matches! I saw another wrestler at coaches get a stall call right after he took a shoot on the line. The ref took that match from this kid!!! These refs need to just let the kids wrestle. The refs- ref the way kids wrestled 15 years ago, times have changed and the sport has too. I think that the refs of cincinnati should review film to see just what they are doing or not doing and fix it. With technology today I can see more parents filming and posting big matches (like this one) when refs screw their kid. I too hope refs view these matches. They need to see their screw ups so they can fix things like this before the end of the year, and the match has more at stake. Like the match that was taken away from the princeton kid last year at districts.
 
First of all, I just watched it for the first time. That was an incredibly boring match. Note, this is in no way to insult either wrestler. They both had a game plan, and I am in no position to question that. However, it was simply a boring match. Anyone that says otherwise is most likely bias.

Secondly, I would have called both wrestlers for stalling in the first period. I have no problem with the stalling call in the second period to give Korb a point. At that time, he was the only wrestler to really attempt to score. It did look bad, because at almost the exact time the ref decided to hit Gresham for stalling, Gresham reshot and was in his best position the entire match to score a takedown. Gresham finally opened up and was more aggressive in his attempt to score after the second stalling call.

Third, both wrestlers need some serious work on their riding skills if they want to succeed on the next level.

Lastly, IMO, Korb outwrestled Gresham in this particular match and deserved to win. I also think Korb is a better wrestler, but that is no knock really on Gresham. Gresham is very quick and explosive in his own right.

They can't work on riding because of the automatic stalling calls in Ohio....it's worse in SW Oh. They will go to college wiithout that skill...but the PA, NJ. IL and NY kids won't!
 
well first problem is call it "riding", the problem with HS wrestlers is they don;t work to turn (which is the objective of top) they work to ride, which is not the objective
 
Korb did not win no one did those refs need to go back to school that was god awful calls how can this refs call stalling hello that what happens when you got two outstanding wrestlers :hello:
 
Glad Korb won, but I don't disagree with you...local refs love the stalling calls, but there is no consistency from one ref to the next. Most refs do a great job, but as a group they have not set and do not follow a "stalling standard."

McIntosh by major is possible, Korb winning is also possible....they will likely meet at some point in college with one going to Penn and one to Penn State.

Your Elder love is shining through... Korb does not beat McIntosh, I repeat does not beat McIntosh.
 
well first problem is call it "riding", the problem with HS wrestlers is they don;t work to turn (which is the objective of top) they work to ride, which is not the objective

perhaps you have never seen a college match.....Ohio officials think they need to redefine the sport fo HS.....that is precisely why OHIO kids are not as well prepared as others when they get to college.......it is riding......you don't turn the good wrestlers.
 
perhaps you have never seen a college match.....Ohio officials think they need to redefine the sport fo HS.....that is precisely why OHIO kids are not as well prepared as others when they get to college.......it is riding......you don't turn the good wrestlers.

Is that correct? All I have to do is hang on someone's back like a monkey? If they can't shake me than I get my riding-time point? Don't I have to be at least attempting to turn?

I am not trying to start a flame war.
 
The top guy should be working for a turn, absolutely. Sometimes that does not happen though. A factor that does not exist in SW OH is how exhausting is to have someone ride you for 2 minutes. Refs think that since no one is scoring then obviously no one is working. That logic must go. The dimension of riding has been eliminated because of foolish refs that think the action must be on the feet. This aspect becomes brutally apparent in college, or even in PA for that matter.
 
The top guy should be working for a turn, absolutely. Sometimes that does not happen though. A factor that does not exist in SW OH is how exhausting is to have someone ride you for 2 minutes. Refs think that since no one is scoring then obviously no one is working. That logic must go. The dimension of riding has been eliminated because of foolish refs that think the action must be on the feet. This aspect becomes brutally apparent in college, or even in PA for that matter.

I remember at Ironman watching Evan Henderson, Kiski Prep, PA, 140 and he was absolutely brutal on top. It seems that wrestlers here don't appear to be well coached on how to initiate and maintain pressure to break an opponent's base. I see a lot of monkey-rides, which has it's uses, but really isn't a base destroyer. On the flip side I also see a number of wrestlers throw-in legs and utilize a useless and anemic power-half to catch a breath and use up the clock.
 
Korb did not win no one did those refs need to go back to school that was god awful calls how can this refs call stalling hello that what happens when you got two outstanding wrestlers :hello:

The ref can call stalling because goshen was backing up a lot of the time the time. spent more time than he should have stepping back out of his stance or adjusting his headgear at the edge of the mat while the clock was running. single shots with no attempt to follow up and score with a second. Stalling - failure to improve. The stall call at end for blocking off was acceptable as well if not using it to improve.
I agree turn to win, not to ride.
I disagree more stall calls called here - you boys say the same thing about refs at state. I agree w most stall calls at state - IMHO I don't think they are called like that during the season and that's where kids get in trouble. If this was a state match I think the same stall calls would have been made, if not sooner.
 
Ths sad part about the entire fiasco was the boos that reigned down after the match. Lost in this was the fact that Korb was a three time SWOWCA champ (I believe) and should have been commended by the crowd. I understand that people were upset with the call and not with Korb, but the kid works his tail off and deserved a better reaction from the crowd for his accomplishment. Congrats Ian! Also, good luck to chaz the rest of the way! Rematch in a week? Doesnt Goshen go to Brecksville too??
 
Is that correct? All I have to do is hang on someone's back like a monkey? If they can't shake me than I get my riding-time point? Don't I have to be at least attempting to turn?

I am not trying to start a flame war.

at the risk of oversimplification....that's about it. If the bottom guy doesn't work to improve he gets called. top guy is either countering the bottom guys moves (which is ok) or working to turn. If they both just lay there like a couple of "don't ask, don't tell" wrestlers...the bottom guy will get hit everytime. I have not seen stalling called on the top guy yet this year.
 
he called stalling right as gresham shot for a re shot... bad call

The ref has to see it to call it. He saw Gresham back up again when Korb attacked and the ref decided to hit him. It takes a second for the ref to make the call after making up his mind and it doesnt matter what the other wrestler does after that point. Its not like he made the stall call after gresham tried a reshot, it was instantaneous.

With the limited interaction I have had with Gresham, he seems like a nice kid. I hope that he learns not to leave it up to the official and go after it. I know both guys work their butt's off and I would love to see both guys bring home state titles this year!
 
well put THIS GUY, i thought he was hitting him right as he took his reshot. he was on his heels the entire match. i thought it was a good call, just looked bad because it was right when he reshot.
 
Korb and Gresham could meet up again at Brecksville, both are in the field. The question is if one (or both) will make their descent to 171 for this event.
 
Korb and Gresham could meet up again at Brecksville, both are in the field. The question is if one (or both) will make their descent to 171 for this event.

It looks like Gresham has the weight to lose. Korb might have a harder cut to 171 as he looks a lot leaner.
 
Top