Good & Not So Good Refs in Cincinnati

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acmilan13

New member
I would like to open this thread as a topic of discussion for us to mention the good refs & crews we have seen and also mention (not really abuse) those that don't do such a good job.

For example, the center ref at the Badin vs Finneytown game (unsure of his name but it was Steve something) was the best center I have seen in quite awhile. Of course he was a GCL ref because the game was played @ Badin (Hamilton).

CHL refs are a completely different story...
 
 
I hate to bag on refs but many of them really are terrible. I hope that the coming generation (having played way more soccer at a higher level) will be better referees. I thought maybe because I was a player I was biased to think refs were bad throughout hs, but even now watching games it is clear that many of them just don't know soccer.
 
Unfortunately the bad ones won't quit. I want to recognize the good ones as well though. My problem with some of the refs in Cincinnati, particularly the ones we see in the CHL on a regular basis, is that they do not understand the game and how to apply the rules of the game. They are more concerned with whether a players shinguard is 1/4 inch from being pulled up too high than they are from being in position to make a correct call or taking pride in what they do.
 
acmilan13 said:
Unfortunately the bad ones won't quit. I want to recognize the good ones as well though. My problem with some of the refs in Cincinnati, particularly the ones we see in the CHL on a regular basis, is that they do not understand the game and how to apply the rules of the game. They are more concerned with whether a players shinguard is 1/4 inch from being pulled up too high than they are from being in position to make a correct call or taking pride in what they do.
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I feel ya about the bad ones not quitting.

One really particular thing I notice is that the AR's do not stay on the offside line and can't keep up, causing a lot of missed offside calls.
 
Refs

The center ref for the Loveland vs. Fairfield game last night does a nice job. Very consistent in his calls, allows time for advantage, and actively communicates with players and coaches. While I'd like him to call some "deliberate handling," he understands the word deliberate -- thus, you'll generally hear many "handball" calls from the ignorant spectators but he doesn't let this affect him. He also centered the Loveland vs. West game so it wasn't my first exposure to him.. Kudos for staying up with run of play as well...
 
CUP91 said:
The center ref for the Loveland vs. Fairfield game last night does a nice job. Very consistent in his calls, allows time for advantage, and actively communicates with players and coaches. While I'd like him to call some "deliberate handling," he understands the word deliberate -- thus, you'll generally hear many "handball" calls from the ignorant spectators but he doesn't let this affect him. He also centered the Loveland vs. West game so it wasn't my first exposure to him.. Kudos for staying up with run of play as well...
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Yeah, that West coach was a HUGE pr1ck to that center ref when you guys played west. And honestly, every time I've seen west play the coach has been a dick...:Ohno:
 
cincysoccer2006 said:
'im sure they would appreciate the feedback'
this is a thread to rag on bad refs. this is not constructive at all.
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Not sure why you are being so defensive? I did not create the thread to publicly humiliate referees. Besides, some of them do that on their own! LOL

I could list several names on here of the usual suspects - the same guys doing the same games but unfortunately due to the shortage of referees in the area we get stuck with them doing key league matches.

It is just nice to hear that others share in our misery and I also think that is nice to hear about the good refs for a change too and give them praise.

Tell me this though....why doesn't anyone try to do anything about it? Why is everyone content with having a middle ref that never leaves the center circle or an AR that can't keep up with the last defender to call offsides or calls a corner/goal kick even though he is 15 yards off the end line and has no clue if the ball was out?
 
CUP91 said:
The center ref for the Loveland vs. Fairfield game last night does a nice job. Very consistent in his calls, allows time for advantage, and actively communicates with players and coaches. While I'd like him to call some "deliberate handling," he understands the word deliberate -- thus, you'll generally hear many "handball" calls from the ignorant spectators but he doesn't let this affect him. He also centered the Loveland vs. West game so it wasn't my first exposure to him.. Kudos for staying up with run of play as well...
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Agreed. He did an excellent job managing the game without becoming part of the game. Also, from some of the comments I could hear, he was very respectful of the coaches but was resolute in his decisions.
 
I think there should be requirements to be ref. They should have to be in shape and actually be able to SEE and HEAR, and should not argue with the players/coaches/parents. Also alot of the refs are just lazy to not follow the ball to the end line. That is a very important call on whether its a goal/corner kick. Some of them need to step it up, But good job to those who are good refs.
 
I'm sure it has been talked about to no end, but the ref who missed the endline call in the Fairfield - St. X playoff game last year had to be 75 years old and missed an out of bounds ball by (I'm not kidding) 4 feet, which St. X's keeper gave up on, and Fairfield scored on to win 1-0. That was pathetic... and he made $100 that night... for being an AR... and have an AARP card... ridiculous.

I agree with ACMilan though, GCL refs get the fact that coaches are going to somewhat argue your call and to get it right and not waiver (which is so crucial). CHL refs tend to worry too much about ticky-tack stuff that the small pushes and the shin guards get in the way of good technical ref'ing. I know there are great ones out there, but no one really talks about refs when they're good, only when they screw up (which is sad, but part of the job). Too bad most good soccer players will never reach a high school ref'ing level because they don't see good refs that often. And they don't want to have to deal with the abuse refs take from players like them!
 
I have said it before and I'll say it again, I can use the thumbs on one hand to count the number of truly bad referees I've ever come across.

Do officials make mistakes during games? Yes. They're human.

Do they make calls that look wrong from where we sit? Absolutely.

Do they deserve respect from players, coaches, and fans? Yes, under all circumstances.
 
SoccerDad2006 said:
I have said it before and I'll say it again, I can use the thumbs on one hand to count the number of truly bad referees I've ever come across.

Do officials make mistakes during games? Yes. They're human.

Do they make calls that look wrong from where we sit? Absolutely.

Do they deserve respect from players, coaches, and fans? Yes, under all circumstances.
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Thank you!
 
SoccerDad2006 said:
I have said it before and I'll say it again, I can use the thumbs on one hand to count the number of truly bad referees I've ever come across.

Do officials make mistakes during games? Yes. They're human.

Do they make calls that look wrong from where we sit? Absolutely.

Do they deserve respect from players, coaches, and fans? Yes, under all circumstances.
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How many thumbs do you have? :shrug:

You are not being honest or you have not watched some of the same high school games that I have been a part of. I agree with your statement that officials make mistakes. Players and coaches do as well. The calls are certainly subjective. However, when one does not understand the rules of the game to begin with or does not take pride in his/her job, there lies the problem. I could go on and on about this with examples but will not.

As far as respect goes, "under all circumstances" well I agree to a certain extent. This respect should go both ways. I have witnessed officials telling players, coaches, and fans to "shut up" in ways that were not deserving, as well as heard officials swear at players and coaches. Does that fall under all circumstances? Players should respect the officials at all times because they should keep their mouth shut during the game, as well as respect them as adults. However, I have a problem when a ref swears at a player, coach, or fan, or even demands someone to shut up for just questioning what the call was.
 
A referee swearing at a player would be a bad thing. Truly, I've never seen it.

I am being honest.

I don't know who you are so I can't say whether we've watched or played in the same games.

I suspect that you and I have different definitions of what constitutes "bad". Nothing more or less.

I also come with perspective of having been a referee in a different sport at very high levels; national and international events. People have whined to me in several different languages when blaming my calls for their lack of performance. I've also been thanked by Olympic medalists and world champions for my service.

True champions will rise above all challenges, even so-called bad referees.
 
SoccerDad2006 said:
I have said it before and I'll say it again, I can use the thumbs on one hand to count the number of truly bad referees I've ever come across.

Do officials make mistakes during games? Yes. They're human.

Do they make calls that look wrong from where we sit? Absolutely.

Do they deserve respect from players, coaches, and fans? Yes, under all circumstances.
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Granted, referees should be given the benefit of a doubt and all should be thankful they are taking the time to get out there and do something no one else will. It doesn't pay enough to put up with the grief and scrutiny they receive. It must be frustrating having people scrutinize and second guess one's every decision. Frankly, I cannot fathom why they would show up on a regular basis. However, your last statement creeps me out a little. I believe one earns respect. Unearned respect to me sounds like patronization.

I do agree with your statement in a later post that questions what constitutes "bad." The term is subjective. However, I do believe I have seen matches (more than I have thumbs) where the experience of the players exceeded the experience of the referees. Those games can be ugly. That is not the referees fault, that is a scheduling problem.
 
However, your last statement creeps me out a little. I believe one earns respect. Unearned respect to me sounds like patronization.

The role of referee on the field should always be respected, under all circumstances.

If a call is questioned, it can be done by a team captain or coach in a polite manner.

If an official is truly incompetent, there are ways of addressing the issue after the game.

Getting into the whizzing contests, which seems to happen more and more, helps nobody.
 
We, as referees, make mistakes. I made a horrible one last night (I won't say which game) and it resulted in a goal for the opposing team. I heard about it from the coaches, players, and fans for the rest of the game. I eventually had to caution the coach because he just wouldn't stop, and that was AFTER I admitted to my mistake and apologized. After the caution, he kept quiet.

The point is, coaches and players are going to continue to berate officials when they see fit UNTIL the official does something about it like cautioning or even ejecting them. It's the case of pushing the limit. They will push and push and push until they have no room to push anymore. I believe that a good official will allow it to go so far and then stop it before it gets out of hand. Sometimes the "whizzing contest" should happen, but only to a point. Then all arguments must stop. Otherwise, the official will never have control of the game.
 
I have the utmost respect for referees who, like phatneff, take pride in their job. If an official makes a judgement call on a foul and he is 5 yards away and saw it differently than we did then I can live with that. However, when he is 40 yards away because he can't keep up with the run of play (or chooses not to in some cases) and calls a foul that clearly is not, then I am gonna let him know he is in the wrong. It is not fair to the players or the fans to have someone out there officiating that does not care enough to be there and not give 100%, or should not be there in the first place. Coaches, players, parents, fans, etc, put too much time and effort into the game to have some unqualified or unfit guy show up and make calls that can change the complexity or even the outcome of a match.
 
There is one thing that needs to be cleared up that some people may not understand.
There were a few comments made about "GCL refs" or "GMC refs".
Most refs do not stick to one league exclusively. Refs tend to do games for most or all of the leagues around the city throughout the year.
There are people who are hired by the different leagues to do the job of assigning refs for the High Schools that are in that league.
There are some refs in Cincinnati who will work with all of the assignors and there are some refs who will only take games from one of the assignors.
Some of this happens strictly because of attitudes and politics, which is another story in itself.
Everyone can admit that there are leagues in this city that are superior to others.
Some refs tend to only do games for the "superior" leagues for one reason or another (also another story in itself). That's when you might start thinking that there are "GCL refs" or "GMC refs". But I don't think that this is widespread through the refs in the city.
I know that I have done games with phatneff for GCL schools and GMC schools.

I appreciate the idea that there are some fans and/or coaches out there that would like to make comments of appreciation and/or support of refs, but unfortunatly those are few and far between.

One big complaint that I hear about refs is that they don't have an understanding of the game. Those comments are accurate in some cases because you have refs out there that are strictly that, referee's. Then you have some, like phatneff and myself and others, that grew up playing the sport, understand the sport from all 3 sides (player, coach, and ref) and actually do the job because we enjoy being a part of soccer.
But, you still have to appreciate the "refs" who come out there, because if they weren't there, who would be?
 
That is correct. Thanks, soref!

Also, many referees choose to take assignments that are closer to their residence or place of employment. It is very difficult to get referees to travel to the far away schools. In the end, it hurts everybody. I drive where I can, within reason, to be able to get there by game time. If I can't leave work before a certain time to get to a far away school, then I will choose not to take those assignments. I guess you get what you pay for.
 
As a FAIRFIELD fan, I can truthfully say that the refs have been fantastic! We should be glad that they take the time to provide the highly skilled officiating required to make the soccer season a success!

From their tireless devotion to good officiating to their incomparable knowledge of the game to their willingness to sacrifice their own personal lives to loan us their talent, I for one am grateful!

I see no reason people would be crying about the refs. They are absolutely the best! Oh, did I say I'm a FAIRFIELD fan! That's Fairfield Indians!
 
I do know of several refs that have done matches in all leagues. I also know that the assignor for a certain league :shrug: assigns the same lot of officials so that is where the comments stem from. No disrespect, it is just how it seems to be done but I realize that many of you do games in all leagues across the city.

I find it hard to believe though that there is such a shortage of referees that we have to just accept what we get. To me that is the underlying problem....everyone is complacent about the officiating and how things are and do not want to make any changes. I am not being radical but what if an official that is subpar decides to quit or is not assigned because he isn't doing an acceptable job, are we going to run out of high school officials and have to cancel games? I highly doubt it.

Also, I created this thread to talk about the good and the bad. I have yet to post any names....I guess we will see what Saturday's crew looks like and I would like nothing more than to come back on here and let you know how good of a job the center did at keeping up with the play and how the AR was even with the last defender and on the touch line constantly. I will have names. I want to praise the good ones too!
 
SoccerDad2006 said:
However, your last statement creeps me out a little. I believe one earns respect. Unearned respect to me sounds like patronization.

The role of referee on the field should always be respected, under all circumstances.

If a call is questioned, it can be done by a team captain or coach in a polite manner.

If an official is truly incompetent, there are ways of addressing the issue after the game.

Getting into the whizzing contests, which seems to happen more and more, helps nobody.
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Most of what you say here I coundn't possibly agree with more. However, I am still having trouble swallowing that "under all circumstances" statement.

It is possible to extend the common human courtesy of decency to any individual and not respect their performance. If an official is incompetent or corrupt, should we always respect them? It DOES happen as the recent basketball scandal demonstrates. As someone who has officiated, do you respect the performance of that basketball referee? I would hope that most officials would find themselves in a state of moral outrage over this person's conduct. However, "under all circumstances" is a very inclusive statement and I simply cannot agree that anyone, under any circumstance, commands that position.

The very good news here is that people like this basketball official are uncommon. He became a news item because his behavior is such an aberration.

I also wonder if our difference of opinion here may not have something to do with our definition(s) of the word respect. The way I am interpreting this word is in terms of holding someone in esteem because of certain qualities and abilities. Perhaps you mean respect in the sense of acknowledging one's right or privilege????
 
I have a colleague the refs all levels of soccer but has a preference for college, high school, and will travel considerably for showcase tournaments. In the conversations we have had, he has expressed many of the same opinions that I have heard from soref and phatneff.

Because of this "inside" information I have always gotten a chuckle when some fan claims that their HS team got homered by the ref.

I know from this colleague that there is a ref shortage. I wish I could recall all the details for the purpose of this thread but last year a discussion came up with one of boys or girls JV teams at FF about the minimum number of refs needed to start a game. Apparently they could only find one willing to come out and the beginning of the game was delayed. What I can't recall is how that situation was resolved. Sorry.

Soref and phatneff, keep up the good jobs. You are appreciated by most. . .at least once they have settled down. I have two kids playing HS on two different teams and the performances by all the refs I have seen this year ranged from good to excellent. Funny, despite the shortage, I do not recall seeing any of the refs more than once.
 
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