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spike78hehaw
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IVYcrusader said:
Vox Crusada
Well-known member
Uhhhhh, St. X and Moeller WILL be battling for the GCL title in week 10. I think you're the one who went "off course."StX_Aussie_06 said:
IVYcrusader
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spike78hehaw said:
I don't understand why playing other sports is even an issue with Crable. Who is he to dictate that? There are numerous players on X's roster that play multiple sports (Scherer, Ries, Albright, Miller to name a miniscule amount), and its actually encouraged. Why is this an issue at Moeller?
To Wheelman and Crusader3, many parents have talked to the AD. It does no good. He says they are coaching issues and he is probably right. Many or these problems may not be old but nothing is being done to fix them. Morale is at a low. Many starters are talking about not playing next year. You win when you are having fun on the field, this year no one is having fun and it will be a pleasant surprise if we are even competitive the next two weeks. Some may not think this is a state championship caliber team but in the beginning of the year it was only a quarterback away from having that potential. A 19-1 Junior class with some key holes filled in by a few outstanding seniors (Held and Tez stand out). Yelling and screaming is fine, but every now and then there also needs to be positive talk and encouragement.
X TD for 6
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the main problem that i see from an outside perspective is Crable / the coaching staff
IVYcrusader
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Bomber06 said:
It's not an issue, plenty of starters play more than one sport...it's only a problem when kids think they can get out of their COMMITTMENT to football. Outsiders don't understand, moeller is a football school...was when crable was there. Not certain about this, the older posters will have to help me out, but back in our heyday football was it. You made it to football related training or whatever was required, and whatever else was secondary. Obviously exceptions were made and coaches understood, but kids wanted to be dominant in football so they wanted to work.
Seems like to me, kids these days want to get out of doing the work. Klonne was a little more lax about it when kids skipped football training to do "other things", but crable isn't having it. So now they're trying to make it an issue. If moe's ever going to dominant again...the kids have to want to work.
Klonne always asked the players this..."If I told you exactly what you needed to do to win a state championship, would you do it?" Of course the answer was always yes, but did the kids on my team follow through, maybe about half of them. But most of the kids that did exactly what they were supposed were the kids who didn't have the talent to beat out kids that had to do it their own way. If everyone bought in, and didn't fight back, and didn't think they knew a better way...the teams i played on would have been a lot more successful. This team would be more successful. When crable gets a team that buys in...moe will win a state championship.
IVYcrusader
New member
X TD for 6 said:
Yeah, well maybe he's going about it the wrong way, in terms of getting kids to buy into his program, but the idea is correct. As a coach, you have to demand 100% respect and you have to get the kids to buy in. However you do that, which apparently he hasn't figured out yet...you have to get it done.
The problem is, all these kids are going to look back on their experiences later on in life and say, "what crable was asking us to do wasn't that bad, we should have done it, and we could have been better." Somehow crable's gotta get the kids to understand today, what they will see clearly 5 or 10 years from now. Sometimes, my way or the highway doesn't work with 17 and 18 year old kids.
And Ivy, some of your comments are outlandish. First off, the players don't owe Moeller anything. The "privilege" to play is ridiculous. The game was started so that people could participate in a team athletic event. The game was designed for team competition and for comraderie, not to "earn" a spot to play for some school full of bureaucrats. If the kid wants to be on the team, let him be on the team unless it is too much of a health risk or something of that nature. When you can have a roster as big as 100+ for the sport why not? Moeller football is not some thing up on a pedestal, ok. It is not the Holy freaking Grail. It is another actitvity, though with a rich history, that students should have the opportunity to participate in. The sooner people realize that the better off the school will be. Why be elitist about it? You can demand perfection, you can demand commitment, but you cannot compromise your integrity by being consumed with the arrogance that a lot of these people have. Pride in your school is one thing, but acting like I was fortunate to have the "honor" and the "privilege" to play is actually disgusting to me. It's like being compared to getting into that great college or getting that great job. Sure it can be a great time and you will remember it for forever, but the fact is that the kids have the right to opportunity. I'll never forget my senior year there were like 3 guys cut total. 3 FREAKING GUYS!!!! And one of them had played for his first 3 years. Tell him it was an "honor" to play. And secondly, Moeller is not a "football" school. That is an awful stereotype that needs to be dropped. Moeller is an academic institution. It is designed to prepare it's students for college. If we don't have the most successful football program, so what? We have never had a losing season, which I think it quite an accomplishment. These kids are getting a good education at Moeller. I know I did, and it is helping now. But please do not make the ignorant statement of saying that Moe is a "football" school. We are successful in many different athletic events as well as other clubs in the school. I bet you didn't even know that 3 years ago our academic team went on to its first of 2 state runner-up appearances. If guys want to make other activities their priorities then that is fine. I would say that during season they should make the commitment whole-heartedly, but it doesn't have to be 24/7 all year-round. Sometimes I think it is the older guys that don't understand, but Moeller is a different school now than it was back then, and it is more successful now that it ever has been.
I find it hard to believe that morale is low. Maybe in soem areas but not as a whole. You cannot tell me coaches like Naumann, Acito, Willertz, and Straub have not been great for this program and are not positive. I know some of these guys and I know that they are not only good coaches but positive. Contrary to most of the posters on here, I have heard nothing but good things about these guys and that the players really like them.
IVYcrusader
New member
moemancc said:
I guess i'm just going to have to respectfully disagree with just about everything you just said.
First, playing moeller football is definitely not a right. Why do you need the kids that are out there just because it's the "cool" thing to do? You don't need anyone out there that isn't willing to do the work, and doesn't genuinely love playing moeller football. That's the reason moeller's never had a losing season, because the majority of the kids have great attitudes and are thrilled to be out there contributing and being a part of moeller's rich history. Moe can do without players with loser attitudes that think they have the right to play without putting in the work.
Second, I agree that football's not the end all be all. Education is important, and moe's been doing a lot better in other sports (wrestling, basketball). The wrestlers compete and train year around, the basketball team competes and plays all year around. There's no coincidence that those two programs have experienced and unbelievable amount of success over the past 10 years. Basketball's won multiple state titles, and wrestling would if Eds didn't have a 20 yr. head start (they'll get there tho). So i'm agreeing with you, horray for academics and other sports, but if FOOTBALL's going to with multiple state championships in the next ten years...there's got to be the same year-around committment just like there is in wrestling and basketball.
Your last statement proves why crable or someone like him is great for moeller long term. Do you think there's a correlation between "changes" at moeller and us not winning a state championship in 20 years? Gotta bring the focus and committment back...that's the only way.
IVYcrusader
New member
moemancc said:
He will most definitely regret it...quitting is not an admirable quality. The opportunity to play football in the greatest league in the nation...for perhaps the most storied program will never present itself again. You'll see when you graduate, there's nothing quite like being a football player at moeller high school.
It's not about the coaches, it's about your teammates! 5-10-20 years down the line, when he's playing softball or having a beer with the boys, and they're all talking about moeller athletics...or when his kids ask him what it was like to play at moe...he's going to regret it. And there's no way to get an 18 year old kid to understand.
MoeDude
LIVE FREE OR DIE!
I think IVYcrusader and moemancc both make valid points. As far as IVYc I don't quite a agree with the whole "privilege" and "honor" thing but I do agree a better commitment is needed from the players during the off season. Which brings me to the one major flaw I see in moemancc's point. As IVYc mentioned the other success stories in MOeller athletics are because of the year round commitment. The same goes for football. If you don't do the off season work you will lose your competitive advantage during the regular season. It's the nature of the beast today. Because of all the specialization that occurs in sports to day you do need to perfect your skills in the off season. If you don't then you will not continue with the winning seasons and I don't think you even want to see that happen.
I guess there is one other thing with your viewopoint moemancc that I disagree. Moeller is what they are because of their football tradition. They have been able to build and expand because of the tradition that helped build pride in Moeller. It is something that grows within an organization. I'm not saying that means everyone that attends Moeller should strive to be a football player but that winning tradition with Moeller's football program helps feed the pride in the other programs. Even the Art Students and all their scholarships over the years helps add to the tradition of being a student at Moeller. I think if you try to de-emphasize football at Moeller and the impact it has had on the school I think you are missing a major element that has identified Moeller and made them what they are today. No way am I saying we should win at all costs like it appears LaSalle is trying to do but I do think we should strive to maintain excellance on the football field because along with the now successfull basketball, wrestling and art programs it all feeds off one another and only helps continue to make Moeller a great institution all around.
But as many of you already know I just don't think the current coaching situation is the right way to get it done. There is one thing with being tough and hardnosed but without showing some respect towards the players along the way the tough and hard nosed attitude kind of gets old and wears down the young men which I think we are wtnessing again this year but in a more flamboyant manner.
By the way IVYcrusader is right. Pat will regret his decision years from now. I kow he was frstrated and pissed off but he really screwed up here. I don't think it is all his fault but carrying on like he did and quitting is not going to solve anything and is only making him look like the fool. It's just a shame that things eroded so bad that it even got to this point. For anyone not to see there is an issue with Pat quitting the way he did and other stories floating around about the whole QB controversy this year then they are really wearing blinders.
I guess there is one other thing with your viewopoint moemancc that I disagree. Moeller is what they are because of their football tradition. They have been able to build and expand because of the tradition that helped build pride in Moeller. It is something that grows within an organization. I'm not saying that means everyone that attends Moeller should strive to be a football player but that winning tradition with Moeller's football program helps feed the pride in the other programs. Even the Art Students and all their scholarships over the years helps add to the tradition of being a student at Moeller. I think if you try to de-emphasize football at Moeller and the impact it has had on the school I think you are missing a major element that has identified Moeller and made them what they are today. No way am I saying we should win at all costs like it appears LaSalle is trying to do but I do think we should strive to maintain excellance on the football field because along with the now successfull basketball, wrestling and art programs it all feeds off one another and only helps continue to make Moeller a great institution all around.
But as many of you already know I just don't think the current coaching situation is the right way to get it done. There is one thing with being tough and hardnosed but without showing some respect towards the players along the way the tough and hard nosed attitude kind of gets old and wears down the young men which I think we are wtnessing again this year but in a more flamboyant manner.
By the way IVYcrusader is right. Pat will regret his decision years from now. I kow he was frstrated and pissed off but he really screwed up here. I don't think it is all his fault but carrying on like he did and quitting is not going to solve anything and is only making him look like the fool. It's just a shame that things eroded so bad that it even got to this point. For anyone not to see there is an issue with Pat quitting the way he did and other stories floating around about the whole QB controversy this year then they are really wearing blinders.
IVYcrusader
New member
MoeDude said:
I know how crable is...sometimes he's got blinders on. The problem with him is, he's got all the talent in the world...athletically and mentally. So I think it's hard for him to relate to people that don't see things EXACTLY his way, because in his mind he is 100% correct. It just takes someone as mentally capable as he is to explain how he might not be 100% completely correct. He's not going to respond to brash young kids who brake his rules, he'll respond to kids that do things the right way.
I know there are coaches on Crables staff that are capable of being a neutralizing force. Moe Dude, things can not possibly be as far fetched as the things i'm reading on this forum. Even if they are that bad, there's NOTHING in the world that could possibly warrant a kid quitting on his teammates in the middle of the season.
Moellerfan
New member
I’m no Crable or Odom fan, but can anyone think of something positive Bob’s done that his predecessors haven’t? All I hear from parents and players is negative.
IvyC and Dude I understand where you guys come from. After re-reading my post I think I didn't quite get what was in my head onto the forum in the correct manner. I wasn't trying to say that Moeller football hasn't been a big part of the school, because it has, but I think that we should not identify ourselves as a football school, and especially not now. The success of so many other things in that school will continue to get diminished if all anyone can think about is football. And I also wasn't trying to say that guys should not commit to football, because if they play they should, but I don't think that football should consume their lives. If they want to get involved in other things they should, and if the football season is not in, they should be able to be involved in other activities without having to answer to the football coach first. They should complete the work, but I don't feel they should be required to do it at the alloted time by the coaches, especially if it conflicts with other commitments that should take precedent. As far as Pat's situation goes, The one point I wanted to make and somehow didn't get to (those late nights are getting to me) is that it should have never come to the point that it did. Pat is not in the right to say what he did, but he should never have to feel that way in the first place. That was what I meant by not really blaming him. He should be respectful, yes, but he also should not receive the amount of crap that he did regardless of what he may or may not have done. Punishment, ok, yelling, yeah it happens, but pushing someone to the point where they totally flip out and fly off the handle should never happen between coaches and players, especially because the one is a mature adult. Can we at least agree on that point?
I have to agree with Moemancc on this one...moeller is so much more than football. I know thats all the majority of the alumni care about, especially the older ones, but there is a ---- of lot more to this school now than football.
As far as pat regretting his decision, I have to say I doubt it as well. You guys need to change your thinking- playing Moeller football isn't the pinnacle of anyone's life. Greatest team in the greatest league in the country? Give me a break. It's high school football.
He is still a kid and has his whole life in front of him.I f he didn't want to play anymore, so be it. It's not like this will ruin his life or change who he is, its just football. Get over it, and let's stop trying to armchair qb his life.
As far as pat regretting his decision, I have to say I doubt it as well. You guys need to change your thinking- playing Moeller football isn't the pinnacle of anyone's life. Greatest team in the greatest league in the country? Give me a break. It's high school football.
He is still a kid and has his whole life in front of him.I f he didn't want to play anymore, so be it. It's not like this will ruin his life or change who he is, its just football. Get over it, and let's stop trying to armchair qb his life.
wildbill044
Well-known member
moemancc said:
Dude, this was very well written and an interesting read at that, but I have to side with everyone else in disagreeing with you.
Moeller, and more specifically, Moeller football, may have been originally launched as a reason to get together outside of school and gain more understanding of your fellow students, but the success of this program under the leadership of Gerry Faust did turn Moeller into a football school. That success has opened the door for other programs at Moeller to become successful as MoeDude and some of the others have said. It is THE reason there is a rich history and tradition of success at Moeller. To that point, playing football at Moeller absolutely is a priveledge, not a right. I'm honored and proud to have been a part, however small, of that tradition. When I was in school there, there wasn't a time that I walked around outside of school with my Moe football garb on that I wasn't thankful to be a part of it. Every time, I walked with a bounce in my step and my chest out a little farther than everyone else because that's how I felt. If you don't believe Moeller football should make you feel honored and priveledged, then go to Milford, where it is a right to play. You think the attitudes are bad here, go there. Moe football is better than 99 out of 100 schools out there, at least. Of course it's hard, it's the hard that makes it great. If it wasn't hard, everyone would do it. I stole that line from Tom Hanks in a League of Their Own, but it fits in with this program very well. I don't know why those 3 kids were cut, only the coaches do, but I know that everyone who busted their @$$ made the team when I was there. H3ll, my first year ever playing organized football was my soph. year at Moeller. I was 5'3" and weighed 125#. I had no idea how to tackle and got my @$$ kicked in practice for the first month or so. Yeah, I was the 2nd fastest kid on the team and I had great hands, but so what. If anyone was going to get cut, it would've been someone like me, and it wasn't. I busted my @$$ in the weightroom and offseason conditioning. I started with all of that at the end of the Freshman football season. Why, because I wanted the priveledge of putting on that uniform and that's what was required by the coaching staff. Was it hard work. Yes. Did I want to quit. Yes. Did I play much. No. Was it worth it. Absolutely. Bob's just trying to bring that back. Maybe he needs more people skills, but I'll tell you this, he's a good guy with the right result in mind. Someone else asked what good things has Bob done. I know his goal is to get a scholarship for all the seniors on the team. Some might say this is BS, but my friend's son is a senior on this team. He does very well in practice, but he hardly ever plays. Turmoil of this season and all, he wouldn't consider quitting. By the way, a college left him a letter last week stating they were interested in him coming to play football for them. A scout for that school came to the Elder game and watched all the kids in warmups, not just the starters in the game. Moeller's tradition and rich football history may have just paid for this kid to go to college. That and his work ethic. So- you may not know it, but Bob does call colleges and they do come out to watch.
By the way, Wheelman, Ivycrusader, and MoeDude- also excellent posts.
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wildbill044
Well-known member
TheRock said:
Rock, he has already regretted it. That's all I'll say on that, but don't be surprised to see him out there at some point.
Rock and moemancc. Moeller is so much more than a football school now, but, when you're overseas and you're wearing your Moe stuff, what are people thinking? Great academic team, even baseball or basketball. Nope. It's football. That is what has defined Moeller since it's inception and it will be that way still for many years to come.
wildbill044
Well-known member
TheRock said:
hehe, sure. Of course, more well known here.
Read Duck's post in the best Moeller program forum.
MoeDude
LIVE FREE OR DIE!
TheRock,
You're right playing football for ANY high school is not the pinnacle of anyone's life. But it is unfortunate that Pat lost his cool like he did. And although he was wrong in what he did you still have to wonder why it got to that point.
As for wildbill's comment about overseas, I don't know about that but I do know that is true about anywhere in the continental US. Over the years I have been all over the states and whenever the topic of high schools comes up almost everytime when I say I went to Moeller people have heard about the football tradition.
Given that moemancc second post makes a lot more sense then the first i would agree with just about everything he posted the second time around.
You're right playing football for ANY high school is not the pinnacle of anyone's life. But it is unfortunate that Pat lost his cool like he did. And although he was wrong in what he did you still have to wonder why it got to that point.
As for wildbill's comment about overseas, I don't know about that but I do know that is true about anywhere in the continental US. Over the years I have been all over the states and whenever the topic of high schools comes up almost everytime when I say I went to Moeller people have heard about the football tradition.
Given that moemancc second post makes a lot more sense then the first i would agree with just about everything he posted the second time around.
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bottom line....the players aren't committed...why?
no leadership!
Naumann is one of the most negative arrogant people on earth...
no leadership!
even some of the coaches are tired of the internal fighting....
no leadership!
myway or the highway.....
no leadership!
And I am a close outsider.....HS football is a game...yes it biulds a lot of good traits to be put to use in REAL life...but it's a game.
In real life lack of leadership is addressed when it affects the right person's wallet.
no leadership!
Naumann is one of the most negative arrogant people on earth...
no leadership!
even some of the coaches are tired of the internal fighting....
no leadership!
myway or the highway.....
no leadership!
And I am a close outsider.....HS football is a game...yes it biulds a lot of good traits to be put to use in REAL life...but it's a game.
In real life lack of leadership is addressed when it affects the right person's wallet.
wildbill044
Well-known member
Actually, I think Odom is very negative, but I haven't heard the rest of them. According to TO, it's never his fault (except the LaSalle call at the end).