ESPN: First Actively Gay NFL Player

To your point about citation, I couldn't find anything more recent than 2011 as well. I'm sure it exists, but I didn't continue the search. I won't make grandiose assumptions beyond surmising that many things have likely changed in roughly 10 years.

In regard to arguments against active engagement, there is inherent risk. That's a fair assessment. In terms of segmentation within society, based upon the timeliness of the report you mentioned, I would hope that more and more folks would have felt comfortable enough to come out since then. I'm not necessarily questioning the validity of that survey, but rather the ability for participants to feel comfortable enough to be truthful in answering with regard to anonymity being protected. I would be curious to see where that number stands now.
There are a dozen ways to look at this issue.

In terms of personal relationships, I have found that moral judgment is not a good way to maintain relationships. Lol. Who asks others to morally judge them? Virtually no one.

As a general rule, the gay people I have relationships with know exactly what my moral thinking is on this, or they correctly assume it. There is no need to say it, but I have found it necessary to make sure they understand that my moral convictions will never change, and that the tolerance, acceptance, etc. I show should not be interpreted as a compromise on those convictions. Once that understanding is in place, they can feel safe that I am not going to heap moral condemnation on them and we can set that issue aside.

But based on all of it - science, moral, practical, and personal - I believe that homosexuality is an aberration, a perversion, a natural violation, very unhealthy and destructive, and is not something to be embraced, but resisted.

At the same time, I believe that homosexuals deserve respect and all the basic rights of other citizens. They also deserve autonomy over their own lives, their privacy, and their most personal decisions.

My respect and tolerance ends when homosexuality is used for an agenda to: 1) undermine the traditional nuclear family 2) normalize it to my, once, children but, now, grandchildren 3) force me to unconditionally accept or celebrate it with direct or indirect pressure.
 
There are a dozen ways to look at this issue.

In terms of personal relationships, I have found that moral judgment is not a good way to maintain relationships. Lol. Who asks others to morally judge them? Virtually no one.

As a general rule, the gay people I have relationships with know exactly what my moral thinking is on this, or they correctly assume it. There is no need to say it, but I have found it necessary to make sure they understand that my moral convictions will never change, and that the tolerance, acceptance, etc. I show should not be interpreted as a compromise on those convictions. Once that understanding is in place, they can feel safe that I am not going to heap moral condemnation on them and we can set that issue aside.

But based on all of it - science, moral, practical, and personal - I believe that homosexuality is an aberration, a perversion, a natural violation, very unhealthy and destructive, and is not something to be embraced, but resisted.

At the same time, I believe that homosexuals deserve respect and all the basic rights of other citizens. They also deserve autonomy over their own lives, their privacy, and their most personal decisions.

My respect and tolerance ends when homosexuality is used for an agenda to: 1) undermine the traditional nuclear family 2) normalize it to my, once, children but, now, grandchildren 3) force me to unconditionally accept or celebrate it with direct or indirect pressure.
Very well put. Thank you.!
 
There are a dozen ways to look at this issue.

In terms of personal relationships, I have found that moral judgment is not a good way to maintain relationships. Lol. Who asks others to morally judge them? Virtually no one.

As a general rule, the gay people I have relationships with know exactly what my moral thinking is on this, or they correctly assume it. There is no need to say it, but I have found it necessary to make sure they understand that my moral convictions will never change, and that the tolerance, acceptance, etc. I show should not be interpreted as a compromise on those convictions. Once that understanding is in place, they can feel safe that I am not going to heap moral condemnation on them and we can set that issue aside.

But based on all of it - science, moral, practical, and personal - I believe that homosexuality is an aberration, a perversion, a natural violation, very unhealthy and destructive, and is not something to be embraced, but resisted.

At the same time, I believe that homosexuals deserve respect and all the basic rights of other citizens. They also deserve autonomy over their own lives, their privacy, and their most personal decisions.

My respect and tolerance ends when homosexuality is used for an agenda to: 1) undermine the traditional nuclear family 2) normalize it to my, once, children but, now, grandchildren 3) force me to unconditionally accept or celebrate it with direct or indirect pressure.
Appreciate you sharing your perspective. I respect your beliefs, but disagree. As you've mentioned, there are more than a dozen ways to look at this issue. We simply look at them differently, and there's nothing wrong with that.
 
But based on all of it - science, moral, practical, and personal - I believe that homosexuality is an aberration, a perversion, a natural violation, very unhealthy and destructive, and is not something to be embraced, but resisted.

It's also a choice. Lots of folks are predisposed to destructive behavior, but not all of them choose to act on it. Further, normalizing the abnormal doesn't help us, and our tolerance shouldn't be misconstrued as acceptance. That said, we're talking about human beings, and no human should feel forced to live their life in a closet.
 
Speaking of gay folks....
I have noticed over the years that I. The work place they tend to say and do more inappropriate things in terms of off color jokes than no and if straight s say it they could easily find themselves in hot water.
 
It's also a choice. Lots of folks are predisposed to destructive behavior, but not all of them choose to act on it. Further, normalizing the abnormal doesn't help us, and our tolerance shouldn't be misconstrued as acceptance. That said, we're talking about human beings, and no human should feel forced to live their life in a closet.
I agree about the choice - but with a caveat. We can look at someone's situation and conclude, "They had a choice", but there are situations where the choice is rigged.

There are tons of theories about the origins of, for purposes of this conversation, male homosexuality. I disclaim any idea that this is an exclusive theory, that it explains every situation, or that it is infallible.

That said, the best theory I have read is from psychologist, Dr. James Dobson. I will give you the 101 version. He says that there is an important point in a boy's development that occurs at around 18 MOA. From conception to birth, the boy lives within his mother. Once born, she is food, comfort, and, well, everything to that child. Dad is just someone who may live in the house. Around 18 mo,, a boy will begin to notice that he is like Dad. In normal development, he will want to begin to spend more time with and identify with his father. Some mothers do not want or allow this transition to occur. In some cases, the father will reject the child or not allow the transition to occur for a variety of reasons. In many, many cases, there is no father to transition identity to. Dobson suggests that this creates in that boy a hunger for male attention, approval, and love. This desire is, of course, not sexual because children are not sexually aware at that age. As the boy grows, he has this persistent desire that has been present since he had memory (this would explain why many profess to have felt "gay" since birth, but, in fact, it can only back to the beginning of memory which, at the earliest normally, is 3 YOA). At some point in his growth and development, he will get exposed to someone or some entity who explains his desire as homosexuality, or he will learn of this explanation and accept it. It does make sense. It is very unlikely that he would run into someone who would tell him, "No. What your desire is concerns a desire for a father's guidance, acceptance, approval, and love. Deal with it in that context, and you will be heterosexual." So, the first and only explanation becomes the identity the boy assumes, and then he begins to act per his identity. In my experience, this explains a lot of male homosexuality.

Another chunk of it is explained by pedophilia. An older male sexually molests a boy. He doesn't tell anyone. He believes that he did something, or there was something about him, that caused this to happen. He develops with this sense that there is something inherent in him that explains the fact that he attracted his molester. Again, at some point, the answer provided is that he is gay, he adopts that identity and acts per it.

All that said, you will meet male homosexuals who had an ideal family, a close relationship with their father, and no history of molestation. So, there is no one explanation. Human beings are very complex in terms of psychology, behavior, and sexuality.
 
Reading Gulliotine and ICVguy taking turns analyzing and explaining homosexuality is a real treat. I would say that they are two of the most unqualified people on earth to comment but then after thinking about it some more, I’m not so sure.
 
Gullibletine and IVCgrandpa trying to explain something as complex as the origin of homosexuality in humans and its development ?

Glad I came back briefly
 
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I agree about the choice - but with a caveat. We can look at someone's situation and conclude, "They had a choice", but there are situations where the choice is rigged.

When I say choice, I mean the choice to act on one's unnatural desires. Dr. Dobson's work may explain the origin of the urges, but it doesn't address the conscious decision to live as a homosexual. Personally, I believe there are more homosexuals who got their wires crossed in the womb (there's a blue collar diagnosis for you! lol) than there are products of their developmental environment.

Again, just to be clear, I honestly don't care who chooses to live the lifestyle as long as we're talking about consenting adults.

What I object to is having that lifestyle, or any lifestyle for that matter, shoved down my throat almost to the point of taunting, which seems to be exactly what "Pride month" is all about.
 
Reading Gulliotine and ICVguy taking turns analyzing and explaining homosexuality is a real treat. I would say that they are two of the most unqualified people on earth to comment but then after thinking about it some more, I’m not so sure.

Says the guy who stated homosexuality is normal because all the animals are doing it!

lmao
 
When I say choice, I mean the choice to act on one's unnatural desires. Dr. Dobson's work may explain the origin of the urges, but it doesn't address the conscious decision to live as a homosexual. Personally, I believe there are more homosexuals who got their wires crossed in the womb (there's a blue collar diagnosis for you! lol) than there are products of their developmental environment.

Again, just to be clear, I honestly don't care who chooses to live the lifestyle as long as we're talking about consenting adults.

What I object to is having that lifestyle, or any lifestyle for that matter, shoved down my throat almost to the point of taunting, which seems to be exactly what "Pride month" is all about.
Amen!
 
What has happened is just like the Clint Eastwood movie where the one who has the power, goes nuts and flaunts it and it's taken away by Eastwood's character and he gives it to another and they all of a sudden go nuts with the power that was appointed upon them. Look at me! Look at me! Look at me!
 
What has happened is just like the Clint Eastwood movie where the one who has the power, goes nuts and flaunts it and it's taken away by Eastwood's character and he gives it to another and they all of a sudden go nuts with the power that was appointed upon them. Look at me! Look at me! Look at me!
The midget sheriff?
 
Honest question. For folks complaining about things being "shoved down their throat" (pun not intended), like Pride Month, please expound. Is someone forcibly holding you down with your eyelids and earholes pried open against your will? You're not required to utilize Social Media, MSM outlets, Cable News platforms, etc. I assumed adults with any amount of self-awareness could enact some semblance of a proactive preparedness to handle the month-long barrage of rainbow flags. If you feel as though it somehow threatens your way of life, education, job, children, grandchildren, etc., then use the appropriate channels to voice your concerns (i.e. School Board meeting, State Rep, Local Business Owner, etc.). Go out and protest on the Courthouse steps! First World Problems are the worst.
 
Honest question. For folks complaining about things being "shoved down their throat" (pun not intended), like Pride Month, please expound. Is someone forcibly holding you down with your eyelids and earholes pried open against your will? You're not required to utilize Social Media, MSM outlets, Cable News platforms, etc. I assumed adults with any amount of self-awareness could enact some semblance of a proactive preparedness to handle the month-long barrage of rainbow flags. If you feel as though it somehow threatens your way of life, education, job, children, grandchildren, etc., then use the appropriate channels to voice your concerns (i.e. School Board meeting, State Rep, Local Business Owner, etc.). Go out and protest on the Courthouse steps! First World Problems are the worst.
I have no problem with it at all. But don't expect me to respect you just because you are gay. You have to have good character and good morals for me to do that. That is all I'm saying here. You personal sexuality has no bearing on that nor do I want to here about your adventures. Have good character and good morals, you will go far in life no matter you sexuality, color, religion, etc.
 
I have no problem with it at all. But don't expect me to respect you just because you are gay. You have to have good character and good morals for me to do that. That is all I'm saying here. You personal sexuality has no bearing on that nor do I want to here about your adventures. Have good character and good morals, you will go far in life no matter you sexuality, color, religion, etc.
That's fair. It doesn't sound like you're necessarily in the camp I described in my post. You're free to respect or not respect whomever you choose. No argument there.
 
Nope. Why would it?
It's on the add banner right here on Yappi in this thread. Doesn't bother me, but it does point to the access. It's fine by me. I get lost in all the agenda driving narratives. There is a Gay football player. Lord mother of Jesus, ring the church bells. Who the f cares?
 
It's on the add banner right here on Yappi in this thread. Doesn't bother me, but it does point to the access. It's fine by me. I get lost in all the agenda driving narratives. There is a Gay football player. Lord mother of Jesus, ring the church bells. Who the f cares?
OBF started this thread, so I guess you can count him as someone who cares at least that much. ?‍♂️
 
That's a dishonest or shallow response imo.
I don't share your opinion. You stated the following... "Who the f cares?" I stated someone who cared enough to start a thread on the topic, whether serious or as a troll. You clearly care enough to follow and comment in said thread. ?‍♂️
 
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