Eastern Cincinnati Conference

mrorcadood said:
Also, West Clermont beat Little Miami without Hubbard. They are legit, and I don't think anyone can prove otherwise at this point.
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Yeah, I just saw that in their box score. Any idea why he didn’t play? That’s an impressive win.

If nothing else, they’re my second favorite team in the conference just because they post a box score within an hour.
 
mrorcadood said:
I picked Lebanon 10th because I didn't expect Coffey to be as good as he is as fast as he is. I'd still take Milford over Anderson.
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Why do you expect Anderson to be so bad? I know they lost a ton but they just seem like their baseline is top half of the league even in a down year. Do you know if Trace Jallick is playing? I guess he’d be their best returning starter if so. If not I guess they’d be in similar territory with Lebanon as far as total roster turnover.
 
Timelineman said:
Why do you expect Anderson to be so bad? I know they lost a ton but they just seem like their baseline is top half of the league even in a down year. Do you know if Trace Jallick is playing? I guess he’d be their best returning starter if so. If not I guess they’d be in similar territory with Lebanon.
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Jallick is playing. Anderson's one of the smaller teams in the league and don't have the pure scorer(s) that a team like Lebanon has to overcome it - they lost their top 3 from last year. Their coaching is solid, but they just lost most of their practice time to football. Their varsity roster is also only 7 players, so they'll have a disadvantage in gritty, close games.
 
WC is super athletic when you think of a WC team. Hopefully Hubbard is okay. But as they just showed, it’s not a one man show over there. They will be a tough out for anyone, have what seems to be a decent coach, and Hubbard makes them a legit threat at the top of the conference.
 
I heard from a varsity parent at WC that Hubbard tore his ACL which would be terrible. Hopefully thats not really the case and he is ok.
 
After watching the first couple of games of the season I have my list of the top 5 players.
1. Shea O'Toole (Turpin)
2. Jashawn Coffey (Lebanon)
3. Carter Sellers (Little Miami)
4. Tommy Clark (Kings)
5. Rayshawn Hubbard (West Clermont)
Any thoughts? Would love to get a conversation going!
 
RealECCHoopsFan said:
After watching the first couple of games of the season I have my list of the top 5 players.
1. Shea O'Toole (Turpin)
2. Jashawn Coffey (Lebanon)
3. Carter Sellers (Little Miami)
4. Tommy Clark (Kings)
5. Rayshawn Hubbard (West Clermont)
Any thoughts? Would love to get a conversation going!
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Not including Hubbard assuming he'll be out for a while

1. Jashawn Coffey (Lebanon)
2. Carson Duke (West Clermont)
3. Christian Wilkins (Winton Woods)
4. Tommy Clark (Kings)
5. Carter Sellers (Little Miami)
6. Cam Arington (Milford)
7. Ty Austin (Walnut Hills)
8. Chase Martin (Loveland)
9. Cash Ingram (Winton Woods)
10. Joe Lafkas (Turpin)

HM: Jyaiire Harper (West Clermont), Frank Latham (Winton Woods), Charlie Stoffregen (Walnut Hills), Jackson Reynolds (Little Miami), Avery Pence (Milford)

O'Toole in the next tier after that - he hasn't stood out in any area to me
 
I have not seen Winton Woods, Walnut Hills, Loveland, or (obviously) Anderson play any ball, but won't let that dissuade me from opining.

1. Carson Sellers - So polished, so much impact on both ends, all over the court.
2. Rayshawn Hubbard/Carson Duke/Jayiire Harper - Hope I got Harper's name right. Hubbard - So much effort and nose for the ball/basket, Duke - So assertive, great shooter/finisher, Hubbard - So smooth, multi-talented. Honestly, I think these may be the most talented 3 players in the league, but only one ball could limit the impact any one can have individually.
3. Tommy Clarke - Incredible instincts/feel for the game, dominant defensively, amazing passer. Shot has been ice cold, but maybe hitting the big game-tying 3 last night will get him going.

Coffey - I didn't see the 29 point debut, which would probably would shape my opinion here, but the game I saw he looked like an uber-talented freshman, who none-the-less looked like a freshman.
O-Toole - I love the swagger he plays with, has a really major impact for a guy of his size/athleticism, but I'm just not seeing the guy who dominated the league at the beginning of last year. Honestly, Lafkas and Nigam strike me as more impactful.

Can't wait to see Chase Martin, Ty Austin and Christian Wilkins. (It would be really nice if WW could at least post a roster, if not any stats on the website. Would not have remembered Wilkins' name if mrorcadood had not beat me to posting.)
 
mrorcadood said:
Not including Hubbard assuming he'll be out for a while

1. Jashawn Coffey (Lebanon)
2. Carson Duke (West Clermont)
3. Christian Wilkins (Winton Woods)
4. Tommy Clark (Kings)
5. Carter Sellers (Little Miami)
6. Cam Arington (Milford)
7. Ty Austin (Walnut Hills)
8. Chase Martin (Loveland)
9. Cash Ingram (Winton Woods)
10. Joe Lafkas (Turpin)

HM: Jyaiire Harper (West Clermont), Frank Latham (Winton Woods), Charlie Stoffregen (Walnut Hills), Jackson Reynolds (Little Miami), Avery Pence (Milford)

O'Toole in the next tier after that - he hasn't stood out in any area to me
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The area where I would put Shea O'Toole at number one is the the most reminiscent of an 80's teen movie antagonist. Between that mullet he's sporting, and the way he seems to love to get under other players' skin, he could definitely have been the cocky star of the team Teen Wolf had to beat for the trophy.
 
Timelineman said:
(It would be really nice if WW could at least post a roster, if not any stats on the website. Would not have remembered Wilkins' name if mrorcadood had not beat me to posting.)
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Walnut/WW game film is on YouTube. Looks like Walnut is trying to break in a new press (which they didn't have last year) and are just failing at it. They created a few more turnovers against Milford, but it was more the Milford guys missing down-court passes rather than the press itself forcing TOs.

WW roster:
#0 - Emontae Weah
#2 - Cash Ingram
#3 - Seaonta Stewart
#4 - Frank Latham
#5 - Nate Dawson
#10 - Bryshawn Brown
#24 - Christian Wilkins
#33 - Jaequawn Walker
 
Carl Rick said:
Tommy Clark is the best player in the ECC.
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I would agree too. He is such an incredibly talented kid. He is going to get the Kings Knights far into the playoffs. Tommy's shooting ability is impeccable when he gets going. He is not just a guy who wants to score because his passing is on point with 8 assists vs Milford. Clark's defense is great too and he always seems to get a ton of deflections. His instincts are perfect and he always seems to know what to do. He's an all-around good player and will be a great leader for Kings this season. Bellarmine is getting a good one next year.
 
RealECCHoopsFan said:
I would agree too. He is such an incredibly talented kid. He is going to get the Kings Knights far into the playoffs. Tommy's shooting ability is impeccable when he gets going. He is not just a guy who wants to score because his passing is on point with 8 assists vs Milford. Clark's defense is great too and he always seems to get a ton of deflections. His instincts are perfect and he always seems to know what to do. He's an all-around good player and will be a great leader for Kings this season. Bellarmine is getting a good one next year.
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Excellent analysis Mrs. Clark.
 
RealECCHoopsFan said:
I would agree too. He is such an incredibly talented kid. He is going to get the Kings Knights far into the playoffs. Tommy's shooting ability is impeccable when he gets going. He is not just a guy who wants to score because his passing is on point with 8 assists vs Milford. Clark's defense is great too and he always seems to get a ton of deflections. His instincts are perfect and he always seems to know what to do. He's an all-around good player and will be a great leader for Kings this season. Bellarmine is getting a good one next year.
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I agree with everything you’ve said, and I’d add that he’s probably the best passer and defender in the league. I want to have him at the top of my list. However at the moment, he’s shooting 33% from the field, 15% from 3, and 50% from the line. If those numbers get back up to 50/40/80, where I would expect them, I’d put him at the top. I think your caveat “when he gets going” about his shooting is very on point. When he gets hot, he gets scorching hot, puts the team on his shoulders, and gets the Castle louder than any gym in the ECC. The three he hit to tie the Turpin game on the road on a night where he was ice cold was the most clutch shot I’ve seen him make. Hopefully that carries over at Little Miami.
 
Timelineman said:
I agree with everything you’ve said, and I’d add that he’s probably the best passer and defender in the league. I want to have him at the top of my list. However at the moment, he’s shooting 33% from the field, 15% from 3, and 50% from the line. If those numbers get back up to 50/40/80, where I would expect them, I’d put him at the top. I think your caveat “when he gets going” about his shooting is very on point. When he gets hot, he gets scorching hot, puts the team on his shoulders, and gets the Castle louder than any gym in the ECC. The three he hit to tie the Turpin game on the road on a night where he was ice cold was the most clutch shot I’ve seen him make. Hopefully that carries over at Little Miami.
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He's not a good defender at all. That's the biggest weakness in his game. He just gambles for steals a lot and sometimes gets them. That's it. He can't ball pressure or stay in front of his man. He has the athletic ability to be a great defender for high school, and competent enough for D1 college, but he is fundamentally unsound on the defensive end.
 
JBaller said:
He's not a good defender at all. That's the biggest weakness in his game. He just gambles for steals a lot and sometimes gets them. That's it. He can't ball pressure or stay in front of his man. He has the athletic ability to be a great defender for high school, and competent enough for D1 college, but he is fundamentally unsound on the defensive end.
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His defense is probably the best part about his game. He had 7 steals against Milford and was locking up O'Toole 90 feet from the basket at Turpin. Tommy's defense is the key to Knight's victory. His athletic ability is the reason he is a great defender.
 
JBaller said:
He's not a good defender at all. That's the biggest weakness in his game. He just gambles for steals a lot and sometimes gets them. That's it. He can't ball pressure or stay in front of his man. He has the athletic ability to be a great defender for high school, and competent enough for D1 college, but he is fundamentally unsound on the defensive end.
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You have a habit of stating your opinions as fact. If you said "I don't think he's that good of a defender," it's one thing, but you lead off with "He's not a good defender at all." I doubt that a single person on this thread would agree with that statement.

To say all he does is gamble - That's the Kings defensive scheme. They have been playing for three years with 6'1" and 6'2" guys as their primary centers. They are not trying to pack it in and get stops. They're trying to create turnovers and turn them into fast break points. When they're doing that, they've been one of the best teams in the league. When they're not, they have a stagnant half court offense and a defense without the athletes to stop the best teams. You're free not to like that defensive philosophy, but that's the team Tommy plays on, and he's the key to it working. So far, he's dominated two games defensively, and they're 2-0.
 
RealECCHoopsFan said:
His defense is probably the best part about his game. He had 7 steals against Milford and was locking up O'Toole 90 feet from the basket at Turpin. Tommy's defense is the key to Knight's victory. His athletic ability is the reason he is a great defender.
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Yep and his strip of O'Toole on Turpin's last possession led to Meissner getting the ball, outletting to Lyman, and getting the winning free throws.
 
Timelineman said:
You have a habit of stating your opinions as fact. If you said "I don't think he's that good of a defender," it's one thing, but you lead off with "He's not a good defender at all." I doubt that a single person on this thread would agree with that statement.

To say all he does is gamble - That's the Kings defensive scheme. They have been playing for three years with 6'1" and 6'2" guys as their primary centers. They are not trying to pack it in and get stops. They're trying to create turnovers and turn them into fast break points. When they're doing that, they've been one of the best teams in the league. When they're not, they have a stagnant half court offense and a defense without the athletes to stop the best teams. You're free not to like that defensive philosophy, but that's the team Tommy plays on, and he's the key to it working. So far, he's dominated two games defensively, and they're 2-0.
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Gambling all over the place is not playing good defense, so, yes, I strongly disagree with their defensive philosophy. It leads to highly inconsistent play. It is also not helping Tommy prepare for the next level when he's actually going to be forced to sit down and stay in front of high-level guards. My criticism of Tommy here is also relative to the fact that he is in fact a legitimate D1 player. Offensively, he is 100% ready to play at that level next season as a true freshman. His ability to attack the rim will translate extremely well and he is a good enough shooter with a quick release even if he is a little inconsistent. He is not close to ready on defense, but he does have the athletic ability to get there though. Those are facts.
 
Friday, December 13, 2024
Lebanon (1-1) at Winton Woods (1-0) (WW -13.5, O/U 112.5)
Kings (2-0) at Little Miami (1-1) (KINGS -2.5, O/U 115.5)
Anderson (0-0) at Turpin (1-2) (TURP -8.5, O/U 99.5)
Loveland (2-1) at Walnut Hills (1-1) (LOVE -1.5, O/U 107.5)
Milford (1-2) at West Clermont (2-0) (WC -10.5, O/U 123.5)

Saturday, December 14, 2024
La Salle (0-3) at Kings (2-0) (KINGS -9.5, O/U 103.5)
Walnut Hills (1-1) at McNicholas (0-2) (MCN -4.5, O/U 103.5), honestly I don't know anything about McNick so idk
Winton Woods (1-0) vs. Holy Cross (KY) (2-0) (WW -8.5, O/U 110.5)
 
JBaller said:
Gambling all over the place is not playing good defense, so, yes, I strongly disagree with their defensive philosophy. It leads to highly inconsistent play. It is also not helping Tommy prepare for the next level when he's actually going to be forced to sit down and stay in front of high-level guards. My criticism of Tommy here is also relative to the fact that he is in fact a legitimate D1 player. Offensively, he is 100% ready to play at that level next season as a true freshman. His ability to attack the rim will translate extremely well and he is a good enough shooter with a quick release even if he is a little inconsistent. He is not close to ready on defense, but he does have the athletic ability to get there though. Those are facts.
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Those are, definitionally, opinions. You should look up the difference between subjective and objective.

Tommy led the league in steals last year, and is leading the league in steals this year. See, those are facts. (Or at least as close as I can get to them without certain teams reporting their stats.)

I'm a guy watching high school basketball games. Tommy's preparation for Bellarmine is his own business. I doubt they hated the fact that he led the league in steals though. I don't believe the Kings High School basketball team exists for the purpose of preparing its college commits for the style of basketball they will be playing, I believe they're trying to compete for league titles with the players they have. I'd say their approach is doing okay.
 
Timelineman said:
Those are, definitionally, opinions. You should look up the difference between subjective and objective.

Tommy led the league in steals last year, and is leading the league in steals this year. See, those are facts. (Or at least as close as I can get to them without certain teams reporting their stats.)

I'm a guy watching high school basketball games. Tommy's preparation for Bellarmine is his own business. I doubt they hated the fact that he led the league in steals though. I don't believe the Kings High School basketball team exists for the purpose of preparing its college commits for the style of basketball they will be playing, I believe they're trying to compete for league titles with the players they have. I'd say their approach is doing okay.
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I watch a lot of hudl footage on prospects. What percentage of his steals would we say are "pick-6" steals where he reads the passing lane and goes down the court often for a dunk? Seems like a lot. That's different from poking the ball away from the guy you're guarding.
 
oxat622 said:
I watch a lot of hudl footage on prospects. What percentage of his steals would we say are "pick-6" steals where he reads the passing lane and goes down the court often for a dunk? Seems like a lot. That's different from poking the ball away from the guy you're guarding.
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He gets a lot of “pick sixes”. Considering that’s the best possible outcome that could be hoped for on a defensive possession, I assume that’s a good thing, right? As someone stated above, he gets tons of deflections, and as for the poking the ball away type, he has tons of those as well which lead to steals for other people. That’s a major reason Kato Meissner is top five in steals right now. As I mentioned before, that’s what won them the Turpin game.
 
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