ends . Linebackers and Corners .... play your position.. assignment football
Dublin Coffman Rocks 2020
- Thread starter Harrycrane
- Start date
No, this will be the first meeting between the two schools. Very similar in size of the school with Warsaw being a little larger numbers wise. But they are a vintage triple option team. I worry about the inexperience on defense mixed with the new coaching staff as well as a 3.5 hour bus ride for the rocks...
Warsaw did lose a lot offensively, but I hear they really like what they have coming up as well.
Side-note: there is a couple of pretty cool restaurant/bars down on Winona Lake (5 minutes from stadium) for any Rocks Fans making the trip...
been to that lake.... years and years ago......LOL!!!
Barbershoptalk
Active member
Did Stokes keep much of the old staff around?
I believe there is one member of the old staff left, and he has moved from a coaching position into more of a film related position.
DubPub88
Active member
Two varsity coaches back, OL and WR's. Pretty much the entire freshman staff is back.
DubPub88
Active member
Very true, assignment football at it's best.
KramericaIndustries
Moderated User
Was leafing thru the various "top 100" player sites, talent in Central Ohio not very deep at all this year according to those services (for whatever that's worth).
Harrycrane
Well-known member
Going to start the 2021 thread this upcoming week. Any kind of information on tomorrows 4-way scrimmage would be appreciated. I will not be around to attend it. Last year there was very limited scrimmage action as Coffman only scrimmaged Pick Central and that was it . A limited scrimmage at that . Had a nice 5 year run of heading over to DeSales on this weekend from 2015-to 2019 . DeSales was always a bit more jacked up for the action. Competition was very good. Last year Central Ohio teams were really restricted and had to stay within the area. Limited schedule and travel kind of made the season less than satisfying and limited growth. Of course, Coffman lost a bit early and then didn't take advantage of the last two weeks which wasn't good for the young kids . Seniors might not have wanted to play and were emotionally done after the tough loss but it wasn't good that the team didn't have the Juniors and Sophs play that last two weeks.
Going to try to get to the Olentangy Thursday dress rehearsal scrimmage. Westerville Central had been the opponent the last handful of years and that was also solid competition. Both these programs are rebuilding personnel wise and the Rocks have a new coaching staff. Rocks as we know lost a lot of talent and a very good Senior class. Disappointing end no question but the group was successful on and off the field and has some D-1 kids who seem to have made solid college choices.
Bryon Threats , the first ever transfer from the city league is a Rocks legend. Work ethic is second to none. Have told his story and the adversity he came back from which makes his performance and effect on the program even more special. Played with emotion , passion and of course talent and skill. Infectious enthusiasm and his work ethic was a great example to the younger players. Played five game his Sophomore and made in an impact in all of them. Some games he made key plays that turned games around or played a big part in winning the game.
Going to start the 2021 thread this upcoming week. Any kind of information on tomorrows 4-way scrimmage would be appreciated. I will not be around to attend it. Last year there was very limited scrimmage action as Coffman only scrimmaged Pick Central and that was it . A limited scrimmage at that . Had a nice 5 year run of heading over to DeSales on this weekend from 2015-to 2019 . DeSales was always a bit more jacked up for the action. Competition was very good. Last year Central Ohio teams were really restricted and had to stay within the area. Limited schedule and travel kind of made the season less than satisfying and limited growth. Of course, Coffman lost a bit early and then didn't take advantage of the last two weeks which wasn't good for the young kids . Seniors might not have wanted to play and were emotionally done after the tough loss but it wasn't good that the team didn't have the Juniors and Sophs play that last two weeks.
Going to try to get to the Olentangy Thursday dress rehearsal scrimmage. Westerville Central had been the opponent the last handful of years and that was also solid competition. Both these programs are rebuilding personnel wise and the Rocks have a new coaching staff. Rocks as we know lost a lot of talent and a very good Senior class. Disappointing end no question but the group was successful on and off the field and has some D-1 kids who seem to have made solid college choices.
Bryon Threats , the first ever transfer from the city league is a Rocks legend. Work ethic is second to none. Have told his story and the adversity he came back from which makes his performance and effect on the program even more special. Played with emotion , passion and of course talent and skill. Infectious enthusiasm and his work ethic was a great example to the younger players. Played five game his Sophomore and made in an impact in all of them. Some games he made key plays that turned games around or played a big part in winning the game.
He chose Cininnati who under Luke Fickell has grown into a top 15 program. They have lone of the top few defensive backfields in the country and he fits in very well in that culture. He will make an impact on the program and eventually start for a couple years IMO. One of the few Rocks players that I have seen and thought there is NFL potential. It goes more than measurables, but his ATTITUDE and desire. Not ideal height but strong quick tough and has great instincts. Reminds me former Colt Safety Bob Sanders who played at Erie Cathedral Prep in Erie Pa.
OLB Devon Williams seems like a great fit at Minnesota as well . He isn't the prototypical size either , but his instincts, versatility and playmaking ability will get him on the field before too long. You can't replace the playmaking ability of kids like Threats , Williams, and Hammond Russell who is at West Virginia. Threats had home run ability at RB as he often took plays that weren't well developed or blocked and made something out of it. He was a ball hawking Safety and big hitter . Special teams difference maker earlier in his career.
Williams would come up with a big sack on key plays on a blitz and often chased down guys when it looked like it could be a big gainer. He could sniff out plays and was always in the right place to make a play. Rusell occupied multiple blockers and always made a big play at some point .
He came a long way from a less developed Sophomore who started at times , to a breakout Junior season which saw him work incredibly hard to get bigger and stronger and his play on the field improved greatly. These guys all worked their butts off to become the players that they were.
Left Tackle Daniel Warnsman was an anchor on the offensive line the last two years and accepted a scholly to Eastern Michigan and will start at some point there no question in my mind. His comp is Sam McCollum who started 4 years at Miami. Warnsman won't duplicate that but he has the qualities that Sam had . A little mean streak., Can be a nasty at times. Always a good thing for O-lineman. Guys like this won't be replaced easily . They don't come around all that often. These are the kids that the younger ones want to become . They saw the work they did . They may not be D-1 kids but if they emulate that work ethic and focus? They will be the best THEY can be .
The fifth D-1 scholly kid is kicker Casey Magyar who will kick for Kent State , probably for 4 years. Works really hard at his craft, is really smart and also wrestled which we know is the ultimate 'Grind" sport. Many other departed players worth mentioning which I will do periodically, but it's a new day a new year, a new era. Finishing this thread over the next few days seems appropriate that I mention a few of the departed players. First opponent Warsaw also looks to be in a bit of a rebuild but has some good program momentum .
This is a dynamic that is very important when you assess a team's prospects. Coffman had good momentum, but the last couple years of losing some really tough ballgames they could have won kind of impedes that stream of momentum . Along with of course the loss of top talent and a lot of starters graduating AND the new HC and staff? Have some thoughts on the end of era's and the dynamics in the next day or so as we wrap up the 2020 thread and move towards another season.
Going to try to get to the Olentangy Thursday dress rehearsal scrimmage. Westerville Central had been the opponent the last handful of years and that was also solid competition. Both these programs are rebuilding personnel wise and the Rocks have a new coaching staff. Rocks as we know lost a lot of talent and a very good Senior class. Disappointing end no question but the group was successful on and off the field and has some D-1 kids who seem to have made solid college choices.
Bryon Threats , the first ever transfer from the city league is a Rocks legend. Work ethic is second to none. Have told his story and the adversity he came back from which makes his performance and effect on the program even more special. Played with emotion , passion and of course talent and skill. Infectious enthusiasm and his work ethic was a great example to the younger players. Played five game his Sophomore and made in an impact in all of them. Some games he made key plays that turned games around or played a big part in winning the game.
Going to start the 2021 thread this upcoming week. Any kind of information on tomorrows 4-way scrimmage would be appreciated. I will not be around to attend it. Last year there was very limited scrimmage action as Coffman only scrimmaged Pick Central and that was it . A limited scrimmage at that . Had a nice 5 year run of heading over to DeSales on this weekend from 2015-to 2019 . DeSales was always a bit more jacked up for the action. Competition was very good. Last year Central Ohio teams were really restricted and had to stay within the area. Limited schedule and travel kind of made the season less than satisfying and limited growth. Of course, Coffman lost a bit early and then didn't take advantage of the last two weeks which wasn't good for the young kids . Seniors might not have wanted to play and were emotionally done after the tough loss but it wasn't good that the team didn't have the Juniors and Sophs play that last two weeks.
Going to try to get to the Olentangy Thursday dress rehearsal scrimmage. Westerville Central had been the opponent the last handful of years and that was also solid competition. Both these programs are rebuilding personnel wise and the Rocks have a new coaching staff. Rocks as we know lost a lot of talent and a very good Senior class. Disappointing end no question but the group was successful on and off the field and has some D-1 kids who seem to have made solid college choices.
Bryon Threats , the first ever transfer from the city league is a Rocks legend. Work ethic is second to none. Have told his story and the adversity he came back from which makes his performance and effect on the program even more special. Played with emotion , passion and of course talent and skill. Infectious enthusiasm and his work ethic was a great example to the younger players. Played five game his Sophomore and made in an impact in all of them. Some games he made key plays that turned games around or played a big part in winning the game.
He chose Cininnati who under Luke Fickell has grown into a top 15 program. They have lone of the top few defensive backfields in the country and he fits in very well in that culture. He will make an impact on the program and eventually start for a couple years IMO. One of the few Rocks players that I have seen and thought there is NFL potential. It goes more than measurables, but his ATTITUDE and desire. Not ideal height but strong quick tough and has great instincts. Reminds me former Colt Safety Bob Sanders who played at Erie Cathedral Prep in Erie Pa.
OLB Devon Williams seems like a great fit at Minnesota as well . He isn't the prototypical size either , but his instincts, versatility and playmaking ability will get him on the field before too long. You can't replace the playmaking ability of kids like Threats , Williams, and Hammond Russell who is at West Virginia. Threats had home run ability at RB as he often took plays that weren't well developed or blocked and made something out of it. He was a ball hawking Safety and big hitter . Special teams difference maker earlier in his career.
Williams would come up with a big sack on key plays on a blitz and often chased down guys when it looked like it could be a big gainer. He could sniff out plays and was always in the right place to make a play. Rusell occupied multiple blockers and always made a big play at some point .
He came a long way from a less developed Sophomore who started at times , to a breakout Junior season which saw him work incredibly hard to get bigger and stronger and his play on the field improved greatly. These guys all worked their butts off to become the players that they were.
Left Tackle Daniel Warnsman was an anchor on the offensive line the last two years and accepted a scholly to Eastern Michigan and will start at some point there no question in my mind. His comp is Sam McCollum who started 4 years at Miami. Warnsman won't duplicate that but he has the qualities that Sam had . A little mean streak., Can be a nasty at times. Always a good thing for O-lineman. Guys like this won't be replaced easily . They don't come around all that often. These are the kids that the younger ones want to become . They saw the work they did . They may not be D-1 kids but if they emulate that work ethic and focus? They will be the best THEY can be .
The fifth D-1 scholly kid is kicker Casey Magyar who will kick for Kent State , probably for 4 years. Works really hard at his craft, is really smart and also wrestled which we know is the ultimate 'Grind" sport. Many other departed players worth mentioning which I will do periodically, but it's a new day a new year, a new era. Finishing this thread over the next few days seems appropriate that I mention a few of the departed players. First opponent Warsaw also looks to be in a bit of a rebuild but has some good program momentum .
This is a dynamic that is very important when you assess a team's prospects. Coffman had good momentum, but the last couple years of losing some really tough ballgames they could have won kind of impedes that stream of momentum . Along with of course the loss of top talent and a lot of starters graduating AND the new HC and staff? Have some thoughts on the end of era's and the dynamics in the next day or so as we wrap up the 2020 thread and move towards another season.
Killer Nut
Active member
Harry, when does Coffman 2021 blog start?
Harrycrane
Well-known member
Probably early next week right before that last scrimmage on Thursday night . Started the original shortened season COVID year thread on August 8th so it'[s a year long thing. Probably by Tuesday . Anyone who is attending the scrimmage today, any info would be great . I am sure I'll get some from regular sources. {pm} Think I can get to the Tangy scrimmage on Thursday.
Harrycrane
Well-known member
Hartley coach Brad Burchfield was quoted recently in the paper saying he approved of the larger play-off system because there are so many more good teams and that football was being played at a much higher level than it was say even 10 years, but certainly 20 years ago.
He's right. Kids have been getting bigger for a while now. But they have also been getting more skilled , stronger than ever and more well trained . This goes for other sports as well . The level of skills training , strength speed and agility training has never been higher. Former dynasty's in High school football in general didn't have to be super teams in order to win big. They needed an edge and a strong commitment but didn't have to be incredibly talented to be near the top most years. You can still win with less talent of course if you relentlessly pursue excellence and have a maniacal focus.
Odessa Permian came into existence in 1959 as that region grew they needed another High school. After getting it's feet wet the first few season they got a great coach in Gene Mayfield in 1965. He won a state title in his first season. He went to the finals 2 other times and his record in the seasons he coached was 62-10-2 . He six seasons leaving after the 70 season. 3 finals appearances in 6 seasons and a championship put Permian on the Texas High school football map. He started a 30 year run of excellence that was astounding considering how competitive Texas High school large school football was and is.
Permian during this era didn't have to battle the level of teams that are present in Texas now with the population explosion in the large Cities and the changing demographics. Larger schools with a higher concentration of talent speed size etc. Beat some really good teams obviously, some with more individual talent than they had but they could win big just doing what they did better than others did what they did and not be overwhelmed .
The success and recognition landed the Panthers another really good coach in Gil Bartosh who in his only two seasons was almost perfect . 23-1 with one state title in 1972 [Also a mythical National title that season } . 8 seasons and 85-11-2 with 4 finals appearances and two championships set the standard of excellence.
Coach John Wilkins who is featured a bit in the book Friday Night lights [He was nicknamed AG [Almost God} was next up and coached from 1973 through the 85 season. A stern guy who was well aware that the standard had been set and that there was pressure mounting to keep it going. He worked frantically to keep the bar high and he succeeded. Wilkins record was a gaudy 148-16 - 7 in his 13 seasons . He went to the state finals 4 times winning two { 1980 and 84} . So from 65- 85 the program went to the state finals 7 times winning 3 of them. Incredible run of success . This success was not achieved by having large numbers of big time recruits. They were not bigger than most teams they played ( sometimes significantly smaller and they weren't faster either in many cases. What they were was quick , extremely well coached and prepared and motivated to achieve . They had better off-season conditioning programs than many schools , their preparation was better and their discipline was superior,. They got incredible community support as the winning escalated and the momentum was incredible.
They became machine like in their execution and when they had better than average talent they were almost unstoppable. The effort per play was off the charts. Motors were reved up to another level . Hilliard Davidson is a parallel in that respect , undersized at times, not a lot of big time recruits but they ran a unique system that teams rarely saw and they perfected it . Shortened games , had great special teams and had more discipline than it's opponents . They mad fewer errors most of the time .
Wilkins was replaced by Gary Gaines who was the coach of that 1988 team featured in FNL. Gaines served two terms as coach but his first one came in this historic run and he kept it going. In his 4 seasons from 1986 through the 89 season, his teams went 47-6-1 with 5 out of the 6 losses being by slim margins and in a couple his team could have been the better team snap for snap . He 'only " got to one final but he made it count winning it all in 1989 going 16-0 with the team being named National champs by ESPN . His FNL team in 88 went to the semifinals losing to Dallas Carter who had almost 20 D-1 kids on the roster 14-9 . Permian actually outplayed Carter and outgained them by a nice margin and would have won if not for an absolute gift given to them by an official on a clearly incomplete deep pass that was ruled a catch . Gaines parlayed his success by getting a college istant job .
The Program had integrated until 1981 . It had a black player [Early 70's Daryl Hunt who made the NFL } whose family was a very rare black family to live within the Permian district borders. But the impact was incredible during this run as many other top teams in the state were also changing a bit demographically speaking. Permian was still a very high majority white at this time.
Gaines goes out on top and is replaced by assitant Tam Hollingshead who keeps the train rolling downhill . It must be said that the program was kind of teetering a bit as they missed the play-offs in 1990 because the got accused of having illegal off season practices. Coaches couldn't be present but they were found to be 'Supervising" some of the workouts. Their district rivalHC turned them in .
They would run into problem in another year of Hollinghead's 90-94 four year run getting booted from the play-offs after winning their first play-off game because of an eligibility screw up with the administration. They lost a tough game 3rd round game in a snowstorm as well with a team capable of going really deep. Hollingshead did win a state title , the Panthers LAST one in 1991 with a great undefeated team . His record in this last few years of the dynasty period was an incredible 43-4-2 .
This is where the cracks started appearing . Randy Mayes who was an assistant for a while including in 1988 where he was a quotable character in FNL took over and the 1994 team was a good solid team but they did lose a few in the regular season and they won a few play-off games before losing . 1995 was the last finals appearance for the program as they lost a couple during the season but got to the final losing a really close game by 3 points . This is where the talent level was slipping a bit and the teams they were playing in their district started to improve . Era's don't just end due to a program losing momentum, a dip in talent, losing coaches etc. These things affect the longevity of a successful era no question. The fanatical nature of the program dissipated as well due to some of the bad publicity from FNL. Also it is just hard to keep something great going indefinitely . The overlooked aspect is the opponents start catching up . The coaches move around a bit and the once mediocre programs become better , the schools grow, they get better coaching and they start being able to play with the top dogs.
1996 saw a noticeable drop off as they missed the play-offs with a 6-4 record. During their almost 30 year run up to this point , they often played other top teams in the non conference portion of their schedule and had won most of them, and if they had lost it was very competitive . Week One of the 96 season saw the Panthers travel to top ranked Mesquite . Permian was ranked number 2 which was based more on reputation as it turned out. Mesquite drubbed them 27-0 in a non competitive game . Some say this was the official end of the run . the next year got worse and the bottom fell out as they went 3-6 and they lost their district rival Odessa High for the first time since 1964. Their feeder Junior Highs started losing more frequently during this period as well.
98 was a comeback year of sorts as a talented team went 8-2 won two play-off games before losing in round three[ Incredibly the program hasn't gotten to the third play-off game since that 1995 season, even with some pretty strong well coached teams in 2005-2008 [Darren Allman 4 years 38-11 } and more recently in 2013 -2017 under Blake Feldt 38-18. It's during this more recent time that the school has gotten a ,lot bigger [ 4000 plus right now}
So getting back to the initial descent into mediocrity , the 99 team wasn't able to build on that bit of renewed momentum as they had a losing season . Only the second one in how many years? The program had lost as many games in a year or two as it had in over a decade in other parts of this era.
The program fired Mayes and went outside the Permian bubble for the first time . A total; outsider with zero ties to the program as an assistant. A completely new era . Much like Coffman having a new coach with no ties to the program for the first time in 20 years. Permian hadn't had an outsider named HC for closer to 30 seasons. This outsider was highly coveted. He was wooed with a private jet bringing him in for the interview and hiring. He like Stokes came from a smaller school . Not as small as Minster as Sealy Texas was Class 3-A out of only 5 classifications at the time . [6 now with the larger ones split into two divisions?} Coach TJ Mills was on an incredible run . From 1993 through the 99 season he was in the 3-A finals 5 times winning 4 of them including a Texas record 4 STRAIGHT [94-97 } going 64-1 overall as they won a absurd 24 straight play-off games. . 98 saw a rebuild as they didn't win a play-off game, but took his team to the finals in 1999 losing by a touchdown. Permian was interested . Why wouldn't they be . They were slipping badly . They needed some juice. They had lost their MOJO.
Mills took the job and lasted 3 seasons. It didn't go well . He was 5-5 in each of his seasons and in year one he had a tragedy to deal with as one of his LB's who just happened to be dating his daughter broke his neck and was paralyzed from the neck down [ This partly inspired the Jason Street storyline as FNL the television show was a few years away} Mills was fired after his third straight 5-5 season as the opponents were getting better in the district and he just didn't have the players to win more or time to build his own program .
He said he enjoyed some of his time in Odessa and thought he was supported by many people in town. He also didn't like the way he was fired, and said he almost kind of regretted { He got a big raise coming from Sealy and other perks so the regret was tempered lol} coming because there was a few things that he didn't know at the time he took the job that may have dissuaded him from accepting the job. One of the key ones was he didn't know how much the feeder programs had fallen off previous to his arrival. He flatly said that while the kids worked hard and were 'Good kids" he simply didn't have the type of players that could " Go out and win some ball games for you " [On their own individually } He also noted the toughness and talent of their district opponents . The not knowing the complete state of the program was on him . His parting shots seemed more like his ego talking as he also said that Odessa was behind the times football and otherwise. There was some truth to the down talent cycle. Lost momentum, talent drop , new system . rival opponents improving their programs? Down cycle. It happens to the best of the best programs at some point .
CB West had a 30 year run ending in 2001 two years after the Legend left . District School split was a huge reason along with some of the aforementioned like reasons. The next coach came in off of great success , another outside who lasted 2 seasons . 10-10 , no play-offs [ 6 straight and counting at that point } . Program has never been quite the same as it can't compete with the massive and talented Dallas Metro plex teams and other national juggernauts with their perfect demographics large number of transfers [Texas demographics changed big time , with some schools benefiting from them and others not so much} ,[Permian while getting larger has a worse football demo. that has been changing for decades now. Talent cycles in public schools especially are normal. Coaching changes happen more in some places than other which hurts momentum and continuity Era's eventually end . There are different reasons for this. Coffman starts an new era, but isn't off of a down period of any kind . Talent loss is large, new system needs to be adapted to and we will see if the new coach can keep the winning momentum , with a big rebuild needed while trying to incorporate his own different culture. I think he is up to the job. Now you just need the kids to go out for the team in good numbers and more importantly buy into the new culture.
He's right. Kids have been getting bigger for a while now. But they have also been getting more skilled , stronger than ever and more well trained . This goes for other sports as well . The level of skills training , strength speed and agility training has never been higher. Former dynasty's in High school football in general didn't have to be super teams in order to win big. They needed an edge and a strong commitment but didn't have to be incredibly talented to be near the top most years. You can still win with less talent of course if you relentlessly pursue excellence and have a maniacal focus.
Odessa Permian came into existence in 1959 as that region grew they needed another High school. After getting it's feet wet the first few season they got a great coach in Gene Mayfield in 1965. He won a state title in his first season. He went to the finals 2 other times and his record in the seasons he coached was 62-10-2 . He six seasons leaving after the 70 season. 3 finals appearances in 6 seasons and a championship put Permian on the Texas High school football map. He started a 30 year run of excellence that was astounding considering how competitive Texas High school large school football was and is.
Permian during this era didn't have to battle the level of teams that are present in Texas now with the population explosion in the large Cities and the changing demographics. Larger schools with a higher concentration of talent speed size etc. Beat some really good teams obviously, some with more individual talent than they had but they could win big just doing what they did better than others did what they did and not be overwhelmed .
The success and recognition landed the Panthers another really good coach in Gil Bartosh who in his only two seasons was almost perfect . 23-1 with one state title in 1972 [Also a mythical National title that season } . 8 seasons and 85-11-2 with 4 finals appearances and two championships set the standard of excellence.
Coach John Wilkins who is featured a bit in the book Friday Night lights [He was nicknamed AG [Almost God} was next up and coached from 1973 through the 85 season. A stern guy who was well aware that the standard had been set and that there was pressure mounting to keep it going. He worked frantically to keep the bar high and he succeeded. Wilkins record was a gaudy 148-16 - 7 in his 13 seasons . He went to the state finals 4 times winning two { 1980 and 84} . So from 65- 85 the program went to the state finals 7 times winning 3 of them. Incredible run of success . This success was not achieved by having large numbers of big time recruits. They were not bigger than most teams they played ( sometimes significantly smaller and they weren't faster either in many cases. What they were was quick , extremely well coached and prepared and motivated to achieve . They had better off-season conditioning programs than many schools , their preparation was better and their discipline was superior,. They got incredible community support as the winning escalated and the momentum was incredible.
They became machine like in their execution and when they had better than average talent they were almost unstoppable. The effort per play was off the charts. Motors were reved up to another level . Hilliard Davidson is a parallel in that respect , undersized at times, not a lot of big time recruits but they ran a unique system that teams rarely saw and they perfected it . Shortened games , had great special teams and had more discipline than it's opponents . They mad fewer errors most of the time .
Wilkins was replaced by Gary Gaines who was the coach of that 1988 team featured in FNL. Gaines served two terms as coach but his first one came in this historic run and he kept it going. In his 4 seasons from 1986 through the 89 season, his teams went 47-6-1 with 5 out of the 6 losses being by slim margins and in a couple his team could have been the better team snap for snap . He 'only " got to one final but he made it count winning it all in 1989 going 16-0 with the team being named National champs by ESPN . His FNL team in 88 went to the semifinals losing to Dallas Carter who had almost 20 D-1 kids on the roster 14-9 . Permian actually outplayed Carter and outgained them by a nice margin and would have won if not for an absolute gift given to them by an official on a clearly incomplete deep pass that was ruled a catch . Gaines parlayed his success by getting a college istant job .
The Program had integrated until 1981 . It had a black player [Early 70's Daryl Hunt who made the NFL } whose family was a very rare black family to live within the Permian district borders. But the impact was incredible during this run as many other top teams in the state were also changing a bit demographically speaking. Permian was still a very high majority white at this time.
Gaines goes out on top and is replaced by assitant Tam Hollingshead who keeps the train rolling downhill . It must be said that the program was kind of teetering a bit as they missed the play-offs in 1990 because the got accused of having illegal off season practices. Coaches couldn't be present but they were found to be 'Supervising" some of the workouts. Their district rivalHC turned them in .
They would run into problem in another year of Hollinghead's 90-94 four year run getting booted from the play-offs after winning their first play-off game because of an eligibility screw up with the administration. They lost a tough game 3rd round game in a snowstorm as well with a team capable of going really deep. Hollingshead did win a state title , the Panthers LAST one in 1991 with a great undefeated team . His record in this last few years of the dynasty period was an incredible 43-4-2 .
This is where the cracks started appearing . Randy Mayes who was an assistant for a while including in 1988 where he was a quotable character in FNL took over and the 1994 team was a good solid team but they did lose a few in the regular season and they won a few play-off games before losing . 1995 was the last finals appearance for the program as they lost a couple during the season but got to the final losing a really close game by 3 points . This is where the talent level was slipping a bit and the teams they were playing in their district started to improve . Era's don't just end due to a program losing momentum, a dip in talent, losing coaches etc. These things affect the longevity of a successful era no question. The fanatical nature of the program dissipated as well due to some of the bad publicity from FNL. Also it is just hard to keep something great going indefinitely . The overlooked aspect is the opponents start catching up . The coaches move around a bit and the once mediocre programs become better , the schools grow, they get better coaching and they start being able to play with the top dogs.
1996 saw a noticeable drop off as they missed the play-offs with a 6-4 record. During their almost 30 year run up to this point , they often played other top teams in the non conference portion of their schedule and had won most of them, and if they had lost it was very competitive . Week One of the 96 season saw the Panthers travel to top ranked Mesquite . Permian was ranked number 2 which was based more on reputation as it turned out. Mesquite drubbed them 27-0 in a non competitive game . Some say this was the official end of the run . the next year got worse and the bottom fell out as they went 3-6 and they lost their district rival Odessa High for the first time since 1964. Their feeder Junior Highs started losing more frequently during this period as well.
98 was a comeback year of sorts as a talented team went 8-2 won two play-off games before losing in round three[ Incredibly the program hasn't gotten to the third play-off game since that 1995 season, even with some pretty strong well coached teams in 2005-2008 [Darren Allman 4 years 38-11 } and more recently in 2013 -2017 under Blake Feldt 38-18. It's during this more recent time that the school has gotten a ,lot bigger [ 4000 plus right now}
So getting back to the initial descent into mediocrity , the 99 team wasn't able to build on that bit of renewed momentum as they had a losing season . Only the second one in how many years? The program had lost as many games in a year or two as it had in over a decade in other parts of this era.
The program fired Mayes and went outside the Permian bubble for the first time . A total; outsider with zero ties to the program as an assistant. A completely new era . Much like Coffman having a new coach with no ties to the program for the first time in 20 years. Permian hadn't had an outsider named HC for closer to 30 seasons. This outsider was highly coveted. He was wooed with a private jet bringing him in for the interview and hiring. He like Stokes came from a smaller school . Not as small as Minster as Sealy Texas was Class 3-A out of only 5 classifications at the time . [6 now with the larger ones split into two divisions?} Coach TJ Mills was on an incredible run . From 1993 through the 99 season he was in the 3-A finals 5 times winning 4 of them including a Texas record 4 STRAIGHT [94-97 } going 64-1 overall as they won a absurd 24 straight play-off games. . 98 saw a rebuild as they didn't win a play-off game, but took his team to the finals in 1999 losing by a touchdown. Permian was interested . Why wouldn't they be . They were slipping badly . They needed some juice. They had lost their MOJO.
Mills took the job and lasted 3 seasons. It didn't go well . He was 5-5 in each of his seasons and in year one he had a tragedy to deal with as one of his LB's who just happened to be dating his daughter broke his neck and was paralyzed from the neck down [ This partly inspired the Jason Street storyline as FNL the television show was a few years away} Mills was fired after his third straight 5-5 season as the opponents were getting better in the district and he just didn't have the players to win more or time to build his own program .
He said he enjoyed some of his time in Odessa and thought he was supported by many people in town. He also didn't like the way he was fired, and said he almost kind of regretted { He got a big raise coming from Sealy and other perks so the regret was tempered lol} coming because there was a few things that he didn't know at the time he took the job that may have dissuaded him from accepting the job. One of the key ones was he didn't know how much the feeder programs had fallen off previous to his arrival. He flatly said that while the kids worked hard and were 'Good kids" he simply didn't have the type of players that could " Go out and win some ball games for you " [On their own individually } He also noted the toughness and talent of their district opponents . The not knowing the complete state of the program was on him . His parting shots seemed more like his ego talking as he also said that Odessa was behind the times football and otherwise. There was some truth to the down talent cycle. Lost momentum, talent drop , new system . rival opponents improving their programs? Down cycle. It happens to the best of the best programs at some point .
CB West had a 30 year run ending in 2001 two years after the Legend left . District School split was a huge reason along with some of the aforementioned like reasons. The next coach came in off of great success , another outside who lasted 2 seasons . 10-10 , no play-offs [ 6 straight and counting at that point } . Program has never been quite the same as it can't compete with the massive and talented Dallas Metro plex teams and other national juggernauts with their perfect demographics large number of transfers [Texas demographics changed big time , with some schools benefiting from them and others not so much} ,[Permian while getting larger has a worse football demo. that has been changing for decades now. Talent cycles in public schools especially are normal. Coaching changes happen more in some places than other which hurts momentum and continuity Era's eventually end . There are different reasons for this. Coffman starts an new era, but isn't off of a down period of any kind . Talent loss is large, new system needs to be adapted to and we will see if the new coach can keep the winning momentum , with a big rebuild needed while trying to incorporate his own different culture. I think he is up to the job. Now you just need the kids to go out for the team in good numbers and more importantly buy into the new culture.
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Pickeringtonsports
Well-known member
Notes from today’s scrimmage.
As far as how each team looked, I would rank them in this order:
1 PC
2 Canal
3 Centerville
4 Coffman
PC was very vanilla even by their standards. They just lined up and ran over everyone. The running game is ready to go. QB was efficient had some good runs and throws. They didn’t use their athletes as I think they will going forward. The defense played well as expected. I don’t think they gave up any TDS. Byrd from CW did bust a big run, about 70 yards but was stopped short. They were also very basic on D. Not a lot of blitzing.
Coffman was energized the entire scrimmage. It sounds like the players they have are all in. The issue is that they just don’t appear to have much in terms of size or speed. They were well coached and played hard.
Centerville looked average on both sides. Much different than the Elk Pride teams of the late 80s.
Canal could be a sleeper. Byrd ran well and their other back had some nice runs.
As far as how each team looked, I would rank them in this order:
1 PC
2 Canal
3 Centerville
4 Coffman
PC was very vanilla even by their standards. They just lined up and ran over everyone. The running game is ready to go. QB was efficient had some good runs and throws. They didn’t use their athletes as I think they will going forward. The defense played well as expected. I don’t think they gave up any TDS. Byrd from CW did bust a big run, about 70 yards but was stopped short. They were also very basic on D. Not a lot of blitzing.
Coffman was energized the entire scrimmage. It sounds like the players they have are all in. The issue is that they just don’t appear to have much in terms of size or speed. They were well coached and played hard.
Centerville looked average on both sides. Much different than the Elk Pride teams of the late 80s.
Canal could be a sleeper. Byrd ran well and their other back had some nice runs.
Harrycrane
Well-known member
Thanks for the recap . Byrds a stud . Rocks will play hard and with energy . Lack of size and speed is an issue in football ? Lol. Total rebuild as I have been saying ., Good to hear that they played with energy. .
Like it was noted above the big thing that stood out to me was just how small Coffman was. Small and slow.
Really like some of the things I saw schematically on both sides of the ball but we just don't have the horses...
Energy and Coaching was on point though... going to need that all year.
Really like some of the things I saw schematically on both sides of the ball but we just don't have the horses...
Energy and Coaching was on point though... going to need that all year.
Rowdy_Rocks
Member
I'll give my thoughts on DC and others tomorrow !
Tiger Alum
Well-known member
Anyone have any news if the CW channel 53 will be televising Thursday night games this season ? I have not seen any schedule for them this year.
Tiger Alum
Well-known member
Thanks !
Like they always do- massive up front and lots of heavy formations and downhill running
Harrycrane
Well-known member
Anyone following Coffman football for the last 10-20 years or so knows that this season presents many challenges. least number of starters returning in 20 years. 20-year coach resigned. Only a couple of the previous staff remain. Individual talent level and overall experience is at a lower point than I can remember. This was going to be obvious to anyone who was paying even a little bit of attention.
I chronicled the Odessa Permian history to show a few parallels. Coffman hasn't nearly the historical success as that program had over that 30 years, but the fact that it can end really quickly and it hasn't come back to its previous level for a variety of reasons.
New coach Geron Stokes was taking on a challenge no matter what. But to take over with the biggest rebuild ahead of it , with the least experience, and not nearly the individual talent of many previous editions? Wow. Still haven't gotten a good account of what happened with the Rocks on the field and how they did , [Usual source couldn't attend nor could I } besides a take on them being the worst of the 4 teams on the field Saturday[ At least when going against PC because the opinion was offered by a PC fan who was likely watching PC and probably didn't watch the Rocks when going against the other teams} . Also noted was how small they were and slow . Bad combo obviously.
The positive things mentioned were about energy and schematics. Were coached hard and well. Local sports writer where I grew up used to say , you can't win many races without the horses. Personnel wise , if being honest , in the OCC central Coffman along with Davidson don't have what the others have. I don't think the gap is large except for UA may be where I can't see that match-up going well at this point .
Things can change. Liberty doesn't have great talent but they have more size up front on offense and superior continuity with their staff . Orange has a slight advantage . Bradley has more back and more individual talent. Davidson has many more starters back and two THREE year running backs. And a whole lot of revenge motive off of last year's 49-0 loss. There will be ZERO guaranteed wins in conference for the first time in over 20 years may be longer.
Week one is a long road trip. program that is rising a bit but also lost a lot of starters and some talent. run heavy option team which they will not have seen in the pre-season scrimmages. Early start to the season . This week will be brutally humid , and before you know it , there will be a Thursday game scrimmage and that's that before the road trip. Week two vs. Turpin should go well . Northmont lost their one-year stud QB but has more speed . The Jerome kids have gotten the better of the Coffman kids at the lower levels. They will be Bear waking up from hibernation hungry to get their first win vs. the Rocks. Groveport also has a speed advantage , but I honestly have no idea at this point how this match-up will go. 15 straight years of 7+ wins in the regular season [Averaging 8 and small change} . Only ONE 6-4 season in 20 years zero 500 seasons. . Last losing season was 2000.
Team doesn't want to be the first in that time frame to not have the winning season. . Seniors especially. The key to having a winning season is utilizing the QB who may be better than any QB they will play. Two Senior receivers with experience [One two year and one three year starter} and some prodcution at RB from a diminutive back with quick feet and a first year wait your turn Sr [ Jr. Mike Anderson and Sr. Jerel Heard who is a bit bigger at about 180+ pounds } . Questions abound.
Can the offensive line hold up ? Improve each week? Give the talented QB some time to do his thing? Rocks usually have team speed on defense . We know this group doesn't have that type of speed . NO starters back in the secondary. Arguably the best guy didn't come back to the team. Can the kids be coached up to another level ? Can the schemes be just a bit more on point than their opponents? Can your conditioning help you win a game or two in the 4th? quarter? Can your scouting of opponents be really sharp? In season conditioning be superior?
I chronicled the Odessa Permian history to show a few parallels. Coffman hasn't nearly the historical success as that program had over that 30 years, but the fact that it can end really quickly and it hasn't come back to its previous level for a variety of reasons.
New coach Geron Stokes was taking on a challenge no matter what. But to take over with the biggest rebuild ahead of it , with the least experience, and not nearly the individual talent of many previous editions? Wow. Still haven't gotten a good account of what happened with the Rocks on the field and how they did , [Usual source couldn't attend nor could I } besides a take on them being the worst of the 4 teams on the field Saturday[ At least when going against PC because the opinion was offered by a PC fan who was likely watching PC and probably didn't watch the Rocks when going against the other teams} . Also noted was how small they were and slow . Bad combo obviously.
The positive things mentioned were about energy and schematics. Were coached hard and well. Local sports writer where I grew up used to say , you can't win many races without the horses. Personnel wise , if being honest , in the OCC central Coffman along with Davidson don't have what the others have. I don't think the gap is large except for UA may be where I can't see that match-up going well at this point .
Things can change. Liberty doesn't have great talent but they have more size up front on offense and superior continuity with their staff . Orange has a slight advantage . Bradley has more back and more individual talent. Davidson has many more starters back and two THREE year running backs. And a whole lot of revenge motive off of last year's 49-0 loss. There will be ZERO guaranteed wins in conference for the first time in over 20 years may be longer.
Week one is a long road trip. program that is rising a bit but also lost a lot of starters and some talent. run heavy option team which they will not have seen in the pre-season scrimmages. Early start to the season . This week will be brutally humid , and before you know it , there will be a Thursday game scrimmage and that's that before the road trip. Week two vs. Turpin should go well . Northmont lost their one-year stud QB but has more speed . The Jerome kids have gotten the better of the Coffman kids at the lower levels. They will be Bear waking up from hibernation hungry to get their first win vs. the Rocks. Groveport also has a speed advantage , but I honestly have no idea at this point how this match-up will go. 15 straight years of 7+ wins in the regular season [Averaging 8 and small change} . Only ONE 6-4 season in 20 years zero 500 seasons. . Last losing season was 2000.
Team doesn't want to be the first in that time frame to not have the winning season. . Seniors especially. The key to having a winning season is utilizing the QB who may be better than any QB they will play. Two Senior receivers with experience [One two year and one three year starter} and some prodcution at RB from a diminutive back with quick feet and a first year wait your turn Sr [ Jr. Mike Anderson and Sr. Jerel Heard who is a bit bigger at about 180+ pounds } . Questions abound.
Can the offensive line hold up ? Improve each week? Give the talented QB some time to do his thing? Rocks usually have team speed on defense . We know this group doesn't have that type of speed . NO starters back in the secondary. Arguably the best guy didn't come back to the team. Can the kids be coached up to another level ? Can the schemes be just a bit more on point than their opponents? Can your conditioning help you win a game or two in the 4th? quarter? Can your scouting of opponents be really sharp? In season conditioning be superior?
Harrycrane
Well-known member
Who played RB
DubPub88
Active member
Two Soph's. One is going to be really good, Carson Cox and the other is a JV type player. Cox will also see varsity time as a LB. Mike Anderson and Jerel Heard will play this week. Two starting LB's are still out.
The Olentangy Scrimmage has been moved to Coffman on Thursday. JV's at 6:00, varsity after, probably close to a 7:00 start time.
so is there scrimmage tonight?... you heading over there to watch?
DubPub88
Active member
The Olentangy Scrimmage has been moved to Coffman on Thursday. JV's at 6:00, varsity after, probably close to a 7:00 start time.
Harrycrane
Well-known member
Out of town briefly . Won’t be back in C- bus till about 830 tonight . I was trying to get back earlier and thought I could take it in . In fact this year looking at my schedule and things I want to do in other areas may be a year I go to less games than I have in many years unfortunately. Kids are out of high school now and college visits and time with newly working in
Other city children will take a bite out of my time along with some other business . Been loathe to start the new thread . But will and try to do what I’ve done for many years now , but it’s a different year for me . Be the first time I haven’t seen at least two scrimmages (. Have seen the DeSales and Westy C scrimmages most years (. Last year doesn’t count only one scrimmage ) and they only have two this year with the early start . Relying on others eyes and my knowledge of the players from
Previous years . Life changes and eras change . I’ll have to adapt a bit .
green hornet
Active member
"Well you better figure it out" in my best Billy Bob Thornton/Coach Gaines voice. In all seriousness, I have appreciated your knowledge, insight, and comments over the years. Better than many "pros" out there. Thanks.
Harrycrane
Well-known member
Appreciate the thoughts .
Let me get this right. You haven’t watched them in either scrimmage. And not in any 7 on 7. You have seen nothing on Coffman this year. Right?