Covid shutdowns another game

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4GX said:
YOU claim that suicide has been the leading cause of death in young people since 2018-- I was unable to verify that claim, in the document that you linked-- please cite the passage in that document where that claim is made.

Meanwhile, even if your claim were correct, you have NO data to show that Covid-19 public health measures have, in any way, driven up the ALREADY EXISTING suicide rate that prevailed in 2018-- you just ipse dixit assert such-- please provide current data to support your claim-- such data would, of necessity, reflect the years 2020 and 2021.
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1) The data for adolescents in 2019 and beyond is not available yet. The studies on 2018 were just published in late 2020/early 2021.

2) Common sense. You clearly do not know anything about kids today if you think that everything that has happened to them in the last year would not increase already high suicide rates.

Even without the suicide statistics, the covid statistics are there and the logical conclusion is clear, covid should be the least of our concerns in protecting the physical and mental health of adolescents.
 
BirdDog10 said:
1) The data for adolescents in 2019 and beyond is not available yet. The studies on 2018 were just published in late 2020/early 2021.

2) Common sense. You clearly do not know anything about kids today if you think that everything that has happened to them in the last year would not increase already high suicide rates.

Even without the suicide statistics, the covid statistics are there and the logical conclusion is clear, covid should be the least of our concerns in protecting the physical and mental health of adolescents.
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No, I don't know anything about kids today-- despite having several. The rest of your "support" for your argument is just blather-- your opinion that Covid-19 public health mandates have SOMEHOW increased youth suicide rates-- but with ZERO supporting evidence.

You can feel free to make a bunch of "gut instinct" statements on what you think is happening in the world today-- thankfully, our public health officials are MUCH more data driven, in their decision-making.
 
4GX said:
No, I don't know anything about kids today-- despite having several. The rest of your "support" for your argument is just blather-- your opinion that Covid-19 public health mandates have SOMEHOW increased youth suicide rates-- but with ZERO supporting evidence.

You can feel free to make a bunch of "gut instinct" statements on what you think is happening in the world today-- thankfully, our public health officials are MUCH more data driven, in their decision-making.
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If our health officials were data driven WHATSOEVER, there NEVER would have been any restrictions on kids.

Keep focusing on my lack of data about suicides while ignoring the fact that covid deaths make up literally less than half a percent of all adolescent deaths, meanwhile the flu kills thousands of kids a year, and the same people pushing for covid restrictions did NOTHING to protect kids from H1N1, that was much more deadly to kids than adults.

Get over covid. Your obsession to comment on every single covid-related topic with the same BS panic porn is weird.
 
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BirdDog10 said:
If our health officials were data driven WHATSOEVER, there NEVER would have been any restrictions on kids.

Keep focusing on my lack of data about suicides while ignoring the fact that covid deaths make up literally less than half a percent of all adolescent deaths, meanwhile the flu kills thousands of kids a year, and the same people pushing for covid restrictions did NOTHING to protect kids from H1N1, that was much more deadly to kids than adults.

Get over covid. Your obsession to comment on every single covid-related topic with the same BS panic porn is weird.
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Wrong again-- you can't support your claims with any data-- so you complain about me focusing on your "lack of data". I will take my chances with the data-driven public health officials over your nonsense every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

I don't know where you got the delusion that I am focused on Covid-- I comment on VERY FEW of the Covid topics here-- most of my recent posts have to do with football-related topics-- but delusion seems to be your stock in trade.
 
4GX said:
No, I don't know anything about kids today-- despite having several. The rest of your "support" for your argument is just blather-- your opinion that Covid-19 public health mandates have SOMEHOW increased youth suicide rates-- but with ZERO supporting evidence.

You can feel free to make a bunch of "gut instinct" statements on what you think is happening in the world today-- thankfully, our public health officials are MUCH more data driven, in their decision-making.
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How much data do you believe is available to project the effect of lockdowns on teens’ mental health?
 
4GX said:
Wrong again-- you can't support your claims with any data-- so you complain about me focusing on your "lack of data". I will take my chances with the data-driven public health officials over your nonsense every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

I don't know where you got the delusion that I am focused on Covid-- I comment on VERY FEW of the Covid topics here-- most of my recent posts have to do with football-related topics-- but delusion seems to be your stock in trade.
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Do you personally know any young people that have committed suicide during this time? I have. Two to be specific. One was 18 and the other 16.
But, don’t take my experiences to heart. Here’s the CDC on this: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7024e1.htm
Hopefully that link opens
 
And there is the chart
 

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Redwing said:
There'a very simple and entirely free way to help make that a reality.

Thousands of kids, teachers and staff in the southern US are either covid positive or in quarantine, after just one week of school. Three teachers in Broward County died in a 24 hr period, with pediatric ICU's busier than they've ever seen. I don't know what those folks thought was going to happen after just swinging the doors open with little to no mitigation, but if we don't think it can happen here in the coming weeks, we aren't paying attention. It's avoidable with a little common sense, folks need to put aside their nutbaggery so schools can stay open and the games can go on.
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The three teachers died before school even started.
 
boothmark77 said:
Do you personally know any young people that have committed suicide during this time? I have. Two to be specific. One was 18 and the other 16.
But, don’t take my experiences to heart. Here’s the CDC on this: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7024e1.htm
Hopefully that link opens
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That's horrific.

Forgive me if I seem harsh, but I am much more concerned with taking measures to stop young people from taking their own lives than I am of protecting adults, who now have access to a vaccine, from covid.
 
That's horrific.
BirdDog10 said:
Forgive me if I seem harsh, but I am much more concerned with taking measures to stop young people from taking their own lives than I am of protecting adults, who now have access to a vaccine, from covid.
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That’s not harsh to me. I take mental health very serious, all ages. Unfortunately, suicide has touched my life (pre covid) so I may get a little upset when someone thinks mental health is not affected by the past 18 months.
 
Imagine living in a world where grown men, with little to no stake in the matter, argue over whether or not 13-18 year old boys should be able to play a game during a pandemic.

I'm not saying they should or shouldn't. I'm not saying COVID is a huge threat or a minimal threat. I'm saying it's ridiculous that you all are debating it. I was raised to be happy with the cards you're dealt and to make the best of the the hand you have. I'm raising my sons accordingly. Guess I'm a different breed.
 
wls_color said:
Imagine living in a world where grown men, with little to no stake in the matter, argue over whether or not 13-18 year old boys should be able to play a game during a pandemic.

I'm not saying they should or shouldn't. I'm not saying COVID is a huge threat or a minimal threat. I'm saying it's ridiculous that you all are debating it. I was raised to be happy with the cards you're dealt and to make the best of the the hand you have. I'm raising my sons accordingly. Guess I'm a different breed.
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Perhaps if you are a sheep, but you are failing to comprehend the larger issue here - it's not about a football game.
 
serpico said:
How much data do you believe is available to project the effect of lockdowns on teens’ mental health?
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Eventually, in a few years, quite a bit-- right now, very little. Thus the public health officials rightfully focus on trying to limit the spread of the virus, as they don't know if there are any mental health issues caused by asking people to wear a mask-- that part is conjecture by people who seem to have a vested interest in arguing against masks.
 
boothmark77 said:
Do you personally know any young people that have committed suicide during this time? I have. Two to be specific. One was 18 and the other 16.
But, don’t take my experiences to heart. Here’s the CDC on this: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7024e1.htm
Hopefully that link opens
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Do you have any evidence that those two kids committed suicide in ANY way because they were asked to wear masks in public places?

Anecdotes are fun to tell-- but little proof of anything. Macro data (on, for example, evidence that the rate of suicides in the US in 2020 was substantively any higher than it was in 2019) would be more compelling. We DO have macro data that the number of deaths in the US in 2020 was MUCH higher (a statistical 2-sigma or even possibly 3-sigma aberration) than the number of deaths in 2019; most publicly available data indicate that that MUCH higher total death count in the US in 2020 was due to deaths caused by Covid.

But, when you have some CDC data that shows that suicide deaths in the US in 2020 were notably higher than in 2019-- THAT would be helpful to arguing the cause that Birddog10 has adopted. Meanwhile, we just have his conjecture.
 
BirdDog10 said:
That's horrific.

Forgive me if I seem harsh, but I am much more concerned with taking measures to stop young people from taking their own lives than I am of protecting adults, who now have access to a vaccine, from covid.
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Glad that you are concerned about protecting young people; right now, the majority of "young people" (those from ages 0-12) are not yet eligible to take a vaccine. Therefore, in accordance with proven public health principles (which were demonstrated over the course of last year-- where states implementing strict mask-wearing and social distancing rules were able to rapidly drive down the rate of transmission of the Covid-19 virus, after implementing-- and FOLLOWING-- those rules), it makes sense for public health officials to be recommending similar public health measures, in the face of another surge in the virus-- this time with a variant that is both much more communicable and notably more lethal to young people.
 
4GX said:
Glad that you are concerned about protecting young people; right now, the majority of "young people" (those from ages 0-12) are not yet eligible to take a vaccine. Therefore, in accordance with proven public health principles (which were demonstrated over the course of last year-- where states implementing strict mask-wearing and social distancing rules were able to rapidly drive down the rate of transmission of the Covid-19 virus, after implementing-- and FOLLOWING-- those rules), it makes sense for public health officials to be recommending similar public health measures, in the face of another surge in the virus-- this time with a variant that is both much more communicable and notably more lethal to young people.
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Ohio had mask mandates. Cases sky rocketed.
 
4GX said:
Do you have any evidence that those two kids committed suicide in ANY way because they were asked to wear masks in public places?

Anecdotes are fun to tell-- but little proof of anything. Macro data (on, for example, evidence that the rate of suicides in the US in 2020 was substantively any higher than it was in 2019) would be more compelling. We DO have macro data that the number of deaths in the US in 2020 was MUCH higher (a statistical 2-sigma or even possibly 3-sigma aberration) than the number of deaths in 2019; most publicly available data indicate that that MUCH higher total death count in the US in 2020 was due to deaths caused by Covid.

But, when you have some CDC data that shows that suicide deaths in the US in 2020 were notably higher than in 2019-- THAT would be helpful to arguing the cause that Birddog10 has adopted. Meanwhile, we just have his conjecture.
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Open the link I had attached from the CDC study. There is your requested data. Look at the graph. Answer is yes, higher.
 
boothmark77 said:
Open the link I had attached from the CDC study. There is your requested data. Look at the graph. Answer is yes, higher.
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I just opened that (dual) graph that you attached above; it prompts an observation:
The graphs are graphing "Emergency Department visits" which visits are then interpreted as having to do with suicide attempts (which I'm not at all sure they are)--but, assuming that is a correct assumption:
A) The data shows NO increase for boys, in "ED Visits" between 2019 (pre-epidemic), 2020, or 2021-- in fact, in many of the months graphed, boys have LOWER "ED Visits" since the epidemic began.
B) The data for girls shows no increase in "ED visits" from 2019 (pre-epidemic) to 2020-- which was the peak of the various public health mandates (on home-schooling, mask-wearing, social distancing, etc.)-- it is ONLY in 2021 (for, of course, only a small part of a year) that shows any increases in these "ED Visits"-- and given that many of the public health mandates have now been eased (as vaccines became available, and dramatically reduced the Covid-19 cases amongst those willing to get vaccinated), it begs the question: "What OTHER factors are at work, that might explain the surge in 2021 'ED Visits'-- that ONLY occurred in girls, and not boys?" And more importantly, is the "surge" in "ED Visits" that the Girls 2021 data show even a statistically significant increase-- or just a minor increase, well within normal statistical variation?

My bottom line: I don't yet see real credible evidence in these charts, to support the contention that, somehow, asking children to wear masks has somehow resulted in a statistically significant increase in suicide deaths among children.
 
4GX said:
Glad that you are concerned about protecting young people; right now, the majority of "young people" (those from ages 0-12) are not yet eligible to take a vaccine. Therefore, in accordance with proven public health principles .......
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Not accurate. My kids recieved several vaccines prior to enrolling in school.
 
D4fan said:
Not accurate. My kids recieved several vaccines prior to enrolling in school.
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Covid-19 vaccines? Or other type vaccines? And are your children above age 12? Because, as far as I know, there is no Covid-19 vaccine approved for administration to children below the age of 12.
 
4GX said:
Covid-19 vaccines? Or other type vaccines? And are your children above age 12? Because, as far as I know, there is no Covid-19 vaccine approved for administration to children below the age of 12.
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I suspected you may have ment Covid vaccine, but you just said vaccine, and yes at age 5 my kids got hit with measles, mumps rubella and a couple other vaccines. We did not have them get the chicken pox one believing natural immunity was preferable and kids don't generally have many issues with the pox .
 
D4fan said:
I suspected you may have ment Covid vaccine, but you just said vaccine, and yes at age 5 my kids got hit with measles, mumps rubella and a couple other vaccines. We did not have them get the chicken pox one believing natural immunity was preferable and kids don't generally have many issues with the pox .
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So, when it comes to Covid-19 protection, you acknowledge that there is currently not a vaccine available to children under age 12-- and thus, that trying to protect school-age children (below age 12) through a range of standard public health practices that were proven to reduce transmission rates of Covid-19 (last year) can be reasonably argued to be a common sense public health advisory?
 
4GX said:
So, when it comes to Covid-19 protection, you acknowledge that there is currently not a vaccine available to children under age 12-- and thus, that trying to protect school-age children (below age 12) through a range of standard public health practices that were proven to reduce transmission rates of Covid-19 (last year) can be reasonably argued to be a common sense public health advisory?
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Which ones reduced transmission rates last year?
 
Who cares about charts and studies. If you want a vaccine get one and be protected. If you don’t want one then don’t. That’s your choice. The vaccinated should not care if other people are or are not because your protected. I don’t understand how this is not universally understood. There should not be any rules. This pandemic has revealed just how stupid the population is. This should be the only message any government should give, get the vaccine, or don’t.
 
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