College Football 2022-2023

[adselder09]

Is the SEC really down, or is everyone else better? I contend that Tennesse is as good as they have been in years, LSU was up and down but they have NFL talent ont hat roster. Georgia is now the poster child of the SEC and Alabama is Alabama. I say the middle of the SEC has got better and you see teams like Ole Miss, Arkansas, Kentucky, South Carolina knock off one of the teams mentioned earlier. Now is Indiana ever beating Ohio State? Never. Tehre is literally no middle of the big ten. It's Ohio State, now Michigan and sometimes Penn State and not much after that.

Yes the SEC is down. The SEC West rep has 3-losses, including one to 3rd ranked ACC Florida State. I've stated my opinion on the ACC a number of times already, they stink.

Tennessee was better than they've been in years, I'll give you that one, but they also lost by 25 to South Carolina.

Ole Miss lost 4 games, Mississippi State lost 4 games, Arkansas lost 6 games, including one to Hugh Freeze and Liberty. Kentucky was down from a year ago, Florida isn't good and A&M was the conference punchline for the majority of the season.

Your example for the B1G is a bad one, because Indiana is a bottom dweller in the conference, outside of the one year with Penix where they beat Penn State and gave Ohio State a run for their money. Purdue has beaten Ohio State at least once, if not twice. Michigan State, Iowa, Wisconsin are all teams I'd classify as middle of the B1G in any given year they don't win the division.

You think because teams are beating up on one another in the SEC and there's some parity that the league is better, but it's not. The top teams are down, the middle is the middle and the bottom isn't any good which means there isn't as much separation from the top to bottom as usual. The B1G has that separation, as the top 2 have soundly beaten everyone else in the conference.

When Alabama teams of the past or even Joe Burrow's LSU team has run away with the SEC, it's how great are they. But when Michigan or Ohio State do it in the B1G it's because that conference stinks. Can't have it both ways.

 

[14Red]

O

Interesting going back and glancing at the PS numbers a lot of the more talent-laden have had dud seasons below expectations.

This year probably is about as good of an opportunity as a slightly lesser individually talented team can get at actually winning it all, whether it's by getting carried by a great QB (USC and TCU) or by just having excellent discipline and execution within well thought/principled systems that maximize their talent (i.e. Michigan).

Or by playing in an extremely weak conference (big ten).

 

[14Red]

When Alabama teams of the past or even Joe Burrow's LSU team has run away with the SEC, it's how great are they. But when Michigan or Ohio State do it in the B1G it's because that conference stinks. Can't have it both ways.

Run away? That LSU team a few years back may be one of the best college teams ever, and they had tight games...
Week 2 LSU 45-38 over Texas
Week 8 23-20 over Auburn
Week 9 46-41 classic over Alabama

I say this every single year and it never seems to sink in. Playing Rutgers, Minnesota, Maryland, Indiana, Northwestern gives you a false sense of security and it really seems to fool everyone across the nation that Ohio State (and this year Michigan) are better than they are.
I'd love for them to play Tennessee, South Carolina, Texas A&M, Kentucky, THEN sprinkle in an Alabama, LSU, Georgia and see how things go. My point always is the SEC has better teams over all. Maybe the last few weeks when Ohio State struggled with Maryland and Northwestern was a sign this this team isn't that good?

 

[nwwarrior09]

I'm curious if 14Red ever looks at the results of the middle and bottom SEC teams and reflects on what things like Arkansas' 1 TD win over UC, A&M's 20-7 win over 1-11 UMass, and Auburn getting clubbed by Penn State at home actually say about those teams relative to teams 5th/6th to the bottom in the other major conferences.

I doubt it.

 

[adselder09]

Run away? That LSU team a few years back may be one of the best college teams ever, and they had tight games...
Week 2 LSU 45-38 over Texas
Week 8 23-20 over Auburn
Week 9 46-41 classic over Alabama

I say this every single year and it never seems to sink in. Playing Rutgers, Minnesota, Maryland, Indiana, Northwestern gives you a false sense of security and it really seems to fool everyone across the nation that Ohio State (and this year Michigan) are better than they are.
I'd love for them to play Tennessee, South Carolina, Texas A&M, Kentucky, THEN sprinkle in an Alabama, LSU, Georgia and see how things go. My point always is the SEC has better teams over all. Maybe the last few weeks when Ohio State struggled with Maryland and Northwestern was a sign this this team isn't that good?

Because it doesn't make any sense.

Ohio State and Michigan aren't any good because they beat up on Rutgers, Minnesota, Maryland, Indiana and Northwestern.

But Alabama and Georgia beat up on Vanderbilt, Tennessee, Kentucky, South Carolina, Missouri, Arkansas, A&M, Missippi State and they're World beaters.

The SEC is a better conference, but let's not pretend that Ohio State and Michigan aren't good because they've got some bad teams in their division/conference. You can say that about every conference. Truth is, SEC records are inflated every year because they only play 8-conference games.

A&M played THREE G5 or lower teams - App St, Sam Houston and UMass. This is typical of an SEC schedule.

 

[14Red]

Because it doesn't make any sense.

Ohio State and Michigan aren't any good because they beat up on Rutgers, Minnesota, Maryland, Indiana and Northwestern.

But Alabama and Georgia beat up on Vanderbilt, Tennessee, Kentucky, South Carolina, Missouri, Arkansas, A&M, Missippi State and they're World beaters.

The SEC is a better conference, but let's not pretend that Ohio State and Michigan aren't good because they've got some bad teams in their division/conference. You can say that about every conference. Truth is, SEC records are inflated every year because they only play 8-conference games.

A&M played THREE G5 or lower teams - App St, Sam Houston and UMass. This is typical of an SEC schedule.

I would contend that some G5 or lower schools is better than big ten bottom feeders. And let's not forget Ohio State played Arkansas State and Toledo ( or another in state MAC team). Michigan played Hawaii, Colorado State and UCOnn.

BTW, did I ever say that Ohio State and Michigan are not good? They are good programs, Ohio State has one of the most storied traditions of football of nearly every school in the country. But my angle is that they rarely get pressed during the regular season, and until the last two years Michigan hasn't been good. Wisconsin/ Michigan State / Penn State take turns being good but not great annually, but never at the same time.

In the SEC, until a few years ago, Alabama was the gold standard. Since Saban arrived, they've owned that conference. The last 3-5 years, Georgia is making a claim. LSU was great for one season and I feel with their talent base, it's just a matter of time before Kelly has them near the top. Auburn has been there in the last decade. Tennesee has tradition,

 

[adselder09]

I would contend that some G5 or lower schools is better than big ten bottom feeders. And let's not forget Ohio State played Arkansas State and Toledo ( or another in state MAC team). Michigan played Hawaii, Colorado State and UCOnn.

Could say the same about some SEC teams, like Vanderbilt, Missouri, Arkansas until last year.

 

[Orin Swift]

Could say the same about some SEC teams, like Vanderbilt, Missouri, Arkansas until last year.

Or Texas A&M who lost to App State.

 

[Orin Swift]

In the SEC, until a few years ago, Alabama was the gold standard. Since Saban arrived, they've owned that conference. The last 3-5 years, Georgia is making a claim. LSU was great for one season and I feel with their talent base, it's just a matter of time before Kelly has them near the top. Auburn has been there in the last decade. Tennesee has tradition,

 

[adselder09]

But my angle is that they rarely get pressed during the regular season, and until the last two years Michigan hasn't been good. Wisconsin/ Michigan State / Penn State take turns being good but not great annually, but never at the same time.

In the SEC, until a few years ago, Alabama was the gold standard. Since Saban arrived, they've owned that conference. The last 3-5 years, Georgia is making a claim. LSU was great for one season and I feel with their talent base, it's just a matter of time before Kelly has them near the top. Auburn has been there in the last decade. Tennesee has tradition,

Alabama = Ohio State
Georgia = Michigan

Then you rattled off LSU, who had 2019. Let's say that's like Penn State or Michigan State.

Then said Auburn - again either Penn State or Michigan State.

Then you tossed out Tennessee because they have tradition, but they really haven't been relevant in the SEC until this year. Wisconsin has been a better program than Tennessee the past 15 years.

All the conferences are roughly the same. There are really good teams. There are middle tier teams and there are bottom feeders. The SEC is no different from the B1G in that regard, no matter how much you want to claim otherwise.

 

[14Red]

All the conferences are roughly the same. There are really good teams. There are middle tier teams and there are bottom feeders. The SEC is no different from the B1G in that regard, no matter how much you want to claim otherwise.

How many national championships and playoffs has Michigan State and Penn State been to???

Auburn has won one, LSU won one.

No, not all the conferences are the same. It's a foregone conclusion by anyone that follows football that the SEC is the best conference. They've dominated the college playoffs and they send more guys to the NFL, by a large number.

Heck, Clemson has been better over the last 10 years than Ohio State.

 

[AEW Champion]

The SEC on the whole is way down compared to what they've been over the past 3-5 years.

I think it’s overall about even with where it’s been, but because Bama isn’t its usual juggernaut, the perception is the SEC isn’t as good.

Programs down from their usual level:

Alabama … still very good, just not #1
Auburn … a mess this year
Texas A&M … a talented mess
Florida … not great this year but likely headed in the right direction going forward

Programs up from their usual level:

Tennessee … massively improved from past 15 years
Ole Miss … Kiffin has them as a legit top 15 to 20 team and improving
Mississippi State … Leach had a solid team this year
South Carolina … obviously vastly improved while no one was paying attention

LSU was way improved from 2020-21 although not back to the level that Les Miles usually had them at. Even Vandy showed more of a pulse than Derek Mason had them at in his latter years there.

Overall, SEC isn’t quite as strong up top as usual but had a lot of quality depth this year.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …

 

[AEW Champion]

I disagree that Daniels would be the 2nd best QB in the B1G. Top 5 sure, but not top 2. He's very inconsistent, great against Alabama and Ole Miss, bad against Tennessee and A&M.

I think Daniels would be right there with JJ McCarthy and Taulia Tagovailoa for #2 QB in the Big Ten, behind Stroud.

There’s a large dropoff in QB play in the Big Ten after those guys. Not even sure who would be considered the #4 QB in the Big Ten. Casey Thompson? Sean Clifford? Cade McNamara?

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …

 

[AEW Champion]

When Alabama teams of the past or even Joe Burrow's LSU team has run away with the SEC, it's how great are they. But when Michigan or Ohio State do it in the B1G it's because that conference stinks. Can't have it both ways.

The problem with the Big Ten is that its category of “Top 20-type teams but not playoff caliber” was paper thin. Penn State was in there and arguably Illinois. And that’s it.

When you see Michigan State get smoked at Washington, Wisconsin lose at home to Washington State, Iowa lose to Iowa State, Purdue lose to Syracuse, and Nebraska lose to Georgia Southern, it tells any objective viewer that the middle core of the Big Ten is down. More than that, a pestilence of incompetent offense plagued far too many Big Ten teams, such as Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Northwestern, Rutgers and even Michigan State.

You can’t win big in this day and age if your passing game stinks.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …

 

[adselder09]

How many national championships and playoffs has Michigan State and Penn State been to???

Auburn has won one, LSU won one.

No, not all the conferences are the same. It's a foregone conclusion by anyone that follows football that the SEC is the best conference. They've dominated the college playoffs and they send more guys to the NFL, by a large number.

Heck, Clemson has been better over the last 10 years than Ohio State.

Yawn. You're completely missing the point.

No one is arguing the B1G is better than the SEC. I've stated the SEC is the best conference, though the Pac 12 is close this year. But on the whole, all conferences are the same. You have the top teams - vying for conference titles. You have mediocre teams, that can lose to the bottom teams but give the top teams fits. And then you have the bottom teams who lose to most everyone else, except other bottom teams. Sometimes a bottom team will play a close one with a top team and everyone freaks out. Chalk it up to familiarity or college kids not being mentally prepared, whatever. It happens.

You think the best B1G teams would finish with 3-4 losses in the SEC, that's where we disagree. Ohio State or Michigan isn't struggling with Kentucky, Vanderbilt, Missouri, South Carolina or Florida this year. Tennessee, maybe. Georgia, probably. In the West, neither B1G team is struggling with Ole Miss, Mississippi St, Arkansas, Auburn or Texas A&M. I would take both against LSU and Alabama as well.

And to be quite clear, no one gives a chit about Auburn's National Title from 15 years ago. And what had LSU done the 5 years prior to Burrow's team and the years since?

To answer your question though Michigan State won the B1G and made the Playoff in 2016. Penn State won the B1G and should have made the Playoff in 2017 over Ohio State, but they had 2 losses. The comparison lied in their runs to the conference title game, not necessarily what they did in the Playoff because as we both already said, the SEC is better than the B1G on the whole.

 

[adselder09]

The problem with the Big Ten is that its category of “Top 20-type teams but not playoff caliber” was paper thin. Penn State was in there and arguably Illinois. And that’s it. When you see Michigan State get smoked at Washington, Wisconsin lose at home to Washington State, Iowa lose to Iowa State, Purdue lose to Syracuse, and Nebraska lose to Georgia Southern, it tells any objective viewer that the middle core of the Big Ten is down. More than that, a pestilence of incompetent offense plagued far too many Big Ten teams, such as Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Northwestern, Rutgers and even Michigan State. You can’t win big in this day and age if your passing game stinks.

All valid points. If you want to use these data points and say the B1G isn't a very good conference on the whole, then I agree. But that doesn't mean Michigan, Ohio State and Penn State aren't good teams.

 

[Orin Swift]

The problem with the Big Ten is that its category of “Top 20-type teams but not playoff caliber” was paper thin. Penn State was in there and arguably Illinois. And that’s it.

When you see Michigan State get smoked at Washington, Wisconsin lose at home to Washington State, Iowa lose to Iowa State, Purdue lose to Syracuse, and Nebraska lose to Georgia Southern, it tells any objective viewer that the middle core of the Big Ten is down. More than that, a pestilence of incompetent offense plagued far too many Big Ten teams, such as Iowa, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Northwestern, Rutgers and even Michigan State.

You can’t win big in this day and age if your passing game stinks.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …

I was under the impression this would be a quality loss, if a win over Syracuse is a big win

 

[eastisbest]

^^^^
That friends, is called a "gotcha."

 

[AEW Champion]

I was under the impression this would be a quality loss, if a win over Syracuse is a big win

You’ve ragged on Syracuse and the ACC enough that I have to consider it a humbling loss for such a strong conference as the Big Ten.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …

 

[Orin Swift]

You’ve ragged on Syracuse and the ACC enough that I have to consider it a humbling loss for such a strong conference as the Big Ten.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …

Im glad we can agree it was nowhere close to being considered a big win

 

[Auggie]

Now this is something I don't get:

Florida QB Kitna jailed on child porn counts

Florida's Jalen Kitna, the son of ex-NFL QB Jon Kitna, has been jailed on multiple counts involving child pornography. He has been suspended indefinitely.

www.espn.com

Dude is a QB at a SEC school and probably could get any piece of tail he wants and he has dirty pics of little girls on his computer?!? Sickening.

 

[adselder09]

I think it’s overall about even with where it’s been, but because Bama isn’t its usual juggernaut, the perception is the SEC isn’t as good.

Programs down from their usual level:

Alabama … still very good, just not #1
Auburn … a mess this year
Texas A&M … a talented mess
Florida … not great this year but likely headed in the right direction going forward

Programs up from their usual level:

Tennessee … massively improved from past 15 years
Ole Miss … Kiffin has them as a legit top 15 to 20 team and improving
Mississippi State … Leach had a solid team this year
South Carolina … obviously vastly improved while no one was paying attention

LSU was way improved from 2020-21 although not back to the level that Les Miles usually had them at. Even Vandy showed more of a pulse than Derek Mason had them at in his latter years there.

Overall, SEC isn’t quite as strong up top as usual but had a lot of quality depth this year.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …

Tennessee, South Carolina and Vanderbilt are playing above their 5-10 year averages. Everyone else is either the same or below where they usually are. That's 3 of 14 teams. The SEC is down.

 

[Orin Swift]

Are we even sure Vandy is playing above their average? They seem to average about 1.25 SEC wins a year since Franklin left, they finished this year with 2. They bottomed out the previous 2 years but otherwise I’d say they are where they usually are.

 

[nutsnbolts]

Tennessee, South Carolina and Vanderbilt are playing above their 5-10 year averages. Everyone else is either the same or below where they usually are. That's 3 of 14 teams. The SEC is down.

Maybe. The last two years have just been weird. Georgia taking the SEC and tsun taking the Big Ten. But Alabama and Ohio State are still good. The rest of both of those conferences have seen some head scratching wins and losses. Traditionally good teams playing bad and traditionally bad teams playing better.
I’d probably say the PAC 10 is playing a little better, the ACC a little worse, and the other 3 P5s about the same. Just different orders within those conferences.

 

[adselder09]

Are we even sure Vandy is playing above their average? They seem to average about 1.25 SEC wins a year since Franklin left, they finished this year with 2. They bottomed out the previous 2 years but otherwise I’d say they are where they usually are.

Vandy won 6 games in 2018, since then they've won:
3 in 2019
0 in 2020
2 in 2021

They won 5 games this year, so I'd say they're above where they've been.

 

[eastisbest]

Now this is something I don't get:

Florida QB Kitna jailed on child porn counts

Florida's Jalen Kitna, the son of ex-NFL QB Jon Kitna, has been jailed on multiple counts involving child pornography. He has been suspended indefinitely.

www.espn.com

Dude is a QB at a SEC school and probably could get any piece of tail he wants and he has dirty pics of little girls on his computer?!? Sickening.

1) it didn't say girls
2) it didn't say little girls
3) it didn't say he produced the images.
4) it is every bit as abusive to say, "he can get any piece...."

He's 19. "Kids" are passing around nudey pics of themselves and even pics of themselves having sex because they think it's "normal." Ask any school counselor. It's your uncle's Playboy to them. Note he freely passed it on a public social media platform. Not personal phone. Not personal email. Not VPNed, hyper secure hidden channels.

I would be very surprised they couldn't arrest a large percentage of recently become adults. This one was ignorant enough to pass it onto social media.

There's no indication given that he is a predator. Whatever he got hold of, shouldn't BE on the internet. Read the everyday articles on this, people arrested for having thousands of these, not 3. Unless more comes out, I'm not judging the kid as anything other than a product of the recent times. We're going to see more and more of this and like drugs, because it's not only difficult but stigmatizing and darn near illegal to even talk about, we will hide our heads in the sands instead of working to keep it out of peoples' hands and minds, particularly still developing minds. We are going to have the same problem as we now have with drugs destroying huge portions of the population.

Now what was it I actually came to this forum to discuss....

 

[AEW Champion]

This is kind of an odd weekend for college football, since all of the CFP drama will be decided by around 3:30 ET tomorrow. With USC playing tonight, USMNT at 10 am tomorrow, and TCU at noon tomorrow, that’s a nice little run of sports watching. And the SEC title at 4 is always watchable.

Then rest up for a great Sunday slate of NFL games.

It’s true, it’s true. Trust me …

 

[Auggie]

1) it didn't say girls
2) it didn't say little girls
3) it didn't say he produced the images.
4) it is every bit as abusive to say, "he can get any piece...."

He's 19. "Kids" are passing around nudey pics of themselves and even pics of themselves having sex because they think it's "normal." Ask any school counselor. It's your uncle's Playboy to them. Note he freely passed it on a public social media platform. Not personal phone. Not personal email. Not VPNed, hyper secure hidden channels.

I would be very surprised they couldn't arrest a large percentage of recently become adults. This one was ignorant enough to pass it onto social media.

There's no indication given that he is a predator. Whatever he got hold of, shouldn't BE on the internet. Read the everyday articles on this, people arrested for having thousands of these, not 3. Unless more comes out, I'm not judging the kid as anything other than a product of the recent times. We're going to see more and more of this and like drugs, because it's not only difficult but stigmatizing and darn near illegal to even talk about, we will hide our heads in the sands instead of working to keep it out of peoples' hands and minds, particularly still developing minds. We are going to have the same problem as we now have with drugs destroying huge portions of the population.

Now what was it I actually came to this forum to discuss....

This report says a prepubescent girl was in one of the photos, in my book that is a little girl:

Gators' Kitna leaves jail as details of case emerge

Florida backup quarterback Jalen Kitna was released from jail on $80,000 bond Thursday, a day after he was arrested on five child pornography charges.

www.espn.com

The way images were described too doesn't sound like the boys passing around nudey pics of their conquests either.

 

[Stirred not Shaken]

Utah's tackling is awful.

 

[brian1227]

Utah is awful.