CFP Expansion

vamp2syd

Well-known member
12 teams do make sense.... your original top 4 would get byes so everyone still has something to play for. I would also encourage strength of schedule and margin of defeat over 50 point wins over nobodies.....
 

Omar

Well-known member
This is r**arded. What a massive waste of time & $ just so the G5 and PAC 12 can have their participation trophies.
 

Auggie

Well-known member
This is r**arded. What a massive waste of time & $ just so the G5 and PAC 12 can have their participation trophies.
Actually many reports are coming out that the SEC is driving this conversation as Greg Sanky is the alpha in the room. Now its not a done deal but many of the points being developed sound like a SEC wet dream:

  • The proposal calls for the bracket to include the six highest-ranked conference champions and the six remaining highest-ranked teams as determined by the CFP selection committee.
  • .No conference would qualify automatically and there would be no limit on the number of participants from a conference.
  • Under the proposal for a 12-team format, the four highest-ranked conference champions would be seeded 1-4 and receive a first-round bye. Teams 5-12 would play each other in the first round on the home field of the higher-ranked team. The quarterfinals and semifinals would be played in bowl games, and the national championship game would remain at a neutral site.
  • The first-round games would take place on campus sometime during the two-week period following conference championship games. The quarterfinals would be played on Jan. 1 -- or Jan. 2 when New Year's Day falls on a Sunday -- and on an adjacent day.
  • Independents, (basically ND) are not eligible for a bye since they are not in a conference.
  • The CFP bracket would follow the selection committee's rankings, with no changes to avoid rematches of teams that might have played during the regular season or are from the same conference.
Here is how it would have looked this year>

Byes:
'Bama
Clemson
Ohio State
Oklahoma

Campus games:
USC @ ND
IU @ Texas A&M
Iowa State @ Florida
Georgia @ UC

If this is the future it looks like this thing is even more of a regional sport to me.
 

Gh0st

Well-known member
I'm surprised the SEC is risking having to travel somewhere like Wisconsin in December. Wouldn't be surprised to hear a push to move those games to neutral sites.
 

cjb56

Well-known member
I'm surprised the SEC is risking having to travel somewhere like Wisconsin in December. Wouldn't be surprised to hear a push to move those games to neutral sites.
Listen, as much as I hate SECism and as much as I love the B1G (especially OSU), there is no doubt the SEC is the strongest football league. The rate they are getting players into the NFL is astonishing and the quality of play in the SEC week to week is very strong. I’m pretty sure a great SEC team isn’t going to fear coming up north for a playoff game.
 

joesports

Well-known member
Byes:
'Bama
Clemson
Ohio State
Oklahoma

Campus games:
USC @ ND
IU @ Texas A&M
Iowa State @ Florida
Georgia @ UC
I will like this ... how will the second round be paired up .... lowest seed to highest seed or predetermined by original seeding?
 

Omar

Well-known member
Actually many reports are coming out that the SEC is driving this conversation as Greg Sanky is the alpha in the room. Now its not a done deal but many of the points being developed sound like a SEC wet dream:

  • The proposal calls for the bracket to include the six highest-ranked conference champions and the six remaining highest-ranked teams as determined by the CFP selection committee.
  • .No conference would qualify automatically and there would be no limit on the number of participants from a conference.
  • Under the proposal for a 12-team format, the four highest-ranked conference champions would be seeded 1-4 and receive a first-round bye. Teams 5-12 would play each other in the first round on the home field of the higher-ranked team. The quarterfinals and semifinals would be played in bowl games, and the national championship game would remain at a neutral site.
  • The first-round games would take place on campus sometime during the two-week period following conference championship games. The quarterfinals would be played on Jan. 1 -- or Jan. 2 when New Year's Day falls on a Sunday -- and on an adjacent day.
  • Independents, (basically ND) are not eligible for a bye since they are not in a conference.
  • The CFP bracket would follow the selection committee's rankings, with no changes to avoid rematches of teams that might have played during the regular season or are from the same conference.
Here is how it would have looked this year>

Byes:
'Bama
Clemson
Ohio State
Oklahoma

Campus games:
USC @ ND
IU @ Texas A&M
Iowa State @ Florida
Georgia @ UC

If this is the future it looks like this thing is even more of a regional sport to me.
ND & A&M we’re the 4th & 5th best teams and Bama blew both of them out. Until there’s more parity in the sport, this is pointless. When was the last time a playoff team was majorly upset (ie losing to unranked team)? Clemson in 2017 when they lost to Syracuse? I know OSU losing to Iowa & Purdue knocked them out, but they got blown out, so they deserved to miss the playoffs.
 

Omar

Well-known member
I’d be ok with 8 bc there’s a few 2 loss teams the past couple of yrs who might’ve had a shot: 2012 Texas A&M and 2016 USC.
 

joesports

Well-known member
ND & A&M we’re the 4th & 5th best teams and Bama blew both of them out. Until there’s more parity in the sport, this is pointless. When was the last time a playoff team was majorly upset (ie losing to unranked team)? Clemson in 2017 when they lost to Syracuse? I know OSU losing to Iowa & Purdue knocked them out, but they got blown out, so they deserved to miss the playoffs.
Chicken or egg problem ... there will not be more parity until more teams have a chance at the playoffs ... it is no accident that the teams that have made the most playoffs are getting the best recruiting classes ... the more teams get a chance at the playoffs will help them recruit ... then you will get closer to parity ... but there will never be complete parity.
 

Omar

Well-known member
Chicken or egg problem ... there will not be more parity until more teams have a chance at the playoffs ... it is no accident that the teams that have made the most playoffs are getting the best recruiting classes ... the more teams get a chance at the playoffs will help them recruit ... then you will get closer to parity ... but there will never be complete parity.

The best they can hope for is that 2nd tier of teams (UGA, OK, ND) take the next step and beat one of those top tier teams. I actually think OK will win the title this yr, but if Lincoln Riley leaves for the NFL, it’s going to set them back big time. Same if Day leaves OSU. Saban and Dabo aren’t going anywhere.
 

Hammerdrill

Well-known member
Listen, as much as I hate SECism and as much as I love the B1G (especially OSU), there is no doubt the SEC is the strongest football league. The rate they are getting players into the NFL is astonishing and the quality of play in the SEC week to week is very strong. I’m pretty sure a great SEC team isn’t going to fear coming up north for a playoff game.
Defense in the SEC is terrible. Until there is a lot more cross conference play, you can't know which conference is better. The best talent doesn't always win a particular game. And in a playoff, it is only 1 game.
 

Hammerdrill

Well-known member
Actually many reports are coming out that the SEC is driving this conversation as Greg Sanky is the alpha in the room. Now its not a done deal but many of the points being developed sound like a SEC wet dream:

  • The proposal calls for the bracket to include the six highest-ranked conference champions and the six remaining highest-ranked teams as determined by the CFP selection committee.
  • .No conference would qualify automatically and there would be no limit on the number of participants from a conference.
  • Under the proposal for a 12-team format, the four highest-ranked conference champions would be seeded 1-4 and receive a first-round bye. Teams 5-12 would play each other in the first round on the home field of the higher-ranked team. The quarterfinals and semifinals would be played in bowl games, and the national championship game would remain at a neutral site.
  • The first-round games would take place on campus sometime during the two-week period following conference championship games. The quarterfinals would be played on Jan. 1 -- or Jan. 2 when New Year's Day falls on a Sunday -- and on an adjacent day.
  • Independents, (basically ND) are not eligible for a bye since they are not in a conference.
  • The CFP bracket would follow the selection committee's rankings, with no changes to avoid rematches of teams that might have played during the regular season or are from the same conference.
Here is how it would have looked this year>

Byes:
'Bama
Clemson
Ohio State
Oklahoma

Campus games:
USC @ ND
IU @ Texas A&M
Iowa State @ Florida
Georgia @ UC

If this is the future it looks like this thing is even more of a regional sport to me.
The definitely need to limit the conferences to 2 teams. Otherwise half the teams will be SEC teams.
 

Gh0st

Well-known member
Listen, as much as I hate SECism and as much as I love the B1G (especially OSU), there is no doubt the SEC is the strongest football league. The rate they are getting players into the NFL is astonishing and the quality of play in the SEC week to week is very strong. I’m pretty sure a great SEC team isn’t going to fear coming up north for a playoff game.
They don't because they can't guarantee even travel and it doesn't help their recruiting to come north.
 

joesports

Well-known member
Next question ... what happens to the 100 or so (or it seems like) meaningless other bowl games .... I am good if most or all of them just goes away.
 

cjb56

Well-known member
Next question ... what happens to the 100 or so (or it seems like) meaningless other bowl games .... I am good if most or all of them just goes away.
I’m sure they’ll still be played. I like them. Usually means a college FB game, or games, on every day in Dec. I don’t watch them all, but I watch some of them.
 

Auggie

Well-known member
Supposedly the guys with the Rose Bowl are super ticked off. With this format not only do they will lose the traditional B1G v Pac 12 match up but more importantly the January 1 2:00 PM PST kick off so that TV cameras get that sun setting over the San Gabriel mountains image. They may also a quarter final pairing of Iowa State v Coastal Carolina doesn't get the juices flowing or sell parade tickets to throngs of alumni traveling to LA for the game.

On the flip side the ACC is happy as can be because they think this will force ND's hand and make them join the Conference.
 

cjb56

Well-known member
Supposedly the guys with the Rose Bowl are super ticked off. With this format not only do they will lose the traditional B1G v Pac 12 match up but more importantly the January 1 2:00 PM PST kick off so that TV cameras get that sun setting over the San Gabriel mountains image. They may also a quarter final pairing of Iowa State v Coastal Carolina doesn't get the juices flowing or sell parade tickets to throngs of alumni traveling to LA for the game.

On the flip side the ACC is happy as can be because they think this will force ND's hand and make them join the Conference.
Which will be interesting, because even though ND is in the Midwest…right in the print of B1G country…if pushed I think ND would go ACC. Their old Catholic strongholds in the Midwest are aging and the new demographics in the region, in hot spots like MSP, Indianapolis, Columbus, aren’t hugely skewing strongly Catholic. East Coast cities like Boston, NYC, Philly, Baltimore have always been ND strong points.

B1G travel would be somewhat easier, of course, but I’m sure ND has studied how Penn State went from the East’s favorite college football program to being a far lesser player nationally and success-wise in the B1G. The ACC schedule model will likely enable ND to keep playing old Midwest rivals like Michigan, MSU and Purdue on a fairly regular basis along with the annual USC game.

But all that assumes ND gives up the TV deal.
 

Auggie

Well-known member
Just read another column that said one of the biggest work arounds is the home campus games for the 1st round. The top 4 actually get penalized for the byes and don't get the home field adv er I mean big pay day with a home game in December. Also 1st round losers don't get a bowl game which dilutes the pool of teams for good but not great bowl game like the Citrus Bowl.
 

MentorGrad2002

Well-known member
I'm all for 8 or 12. Would prefer 8 but 12 is way better than 4

Every other sport in NCAA allows non power 5 teams a shot to win it all. Coastal Carolina ,rice etc win baseball. Akron and marshall win soccer. UNLV and butler types can get to finals or win them in basketball.

So why should major football have a system where a non power 5 never gets a shot ?

On top of that , the bowl games are meaningless now. Players rest for the draft and nobody cares about them. Better to have more meaningful football games.

This should also allow for more power 5 mega regular season matchups. And also give the best non power 5 more shots at the power 5 programs who dodge them to schedule cupcakes like Akron instead

This would be great for the sport because there is still incentive to win your conference, non conference matchups should improve and everyone has a shot to compete for the title
 

oxat622

Well-known member
Actually many reports are coming out that the SEC is driving this conversation as Greg Sanky is the alpha in the room. Now its not a done deal but many of the points being developed sound like a SEC wet dream:

  • The proposal calls for the bracket to include the six highest-ranked conference champions and the six remaining highest-ranked teams as determined by the CFP selection committee.
  • .No conference would qualify automatically and there would be no limit on the number of participants from a conference.
  • Under the proposal for a 12-team format, the four highest-ranked conference champions would be seeded 1-4 and receive a first-round bye. Teams 5-12 would play each other in the first round on the home field of the higher-ranked team. The quarterfinals and semifinals would be played in bowl games, and the national championship game would remain at a neutral site.
  • The first-round games would take place on campus sometime during the two-week period following conference championship games. The quarterfinals would be played on Jan. 1 -- or Jan. 2 when New Year's Day falls on a Sunday -- and on an adjacent day.
  • Independents, (basically ND) are not eligible for a bye since they are not in a conference.
  • The CFP bracket would follow the selection committee's rankings, with no changes to avoid rematches of teams that might have played during the regular season or are from the same conference.
Here is how it would have looked this year>

Byes:
'Bama
Clemson
Ohio State
Oklahoma

Campus games:
USC @ ND
IU @ Texas A&M
Iowa State @ Florida
Georgia @ UC

If this is the future it looks like this thing is even more of a regional sport to me.
I think Coastal Carolina would've gotten in over USC.
 

oxat622

Well-known member
It's not perfect, but a step in the right direction. I say this as a fan of a MAC team - any model where every team in the country is not in complete control of its destiny is imperfect in my mind. Say you have a Mountain West team that begins the year ranked and a MAC team that does not garner any preseason AP/Coaches poll votes. Both teams go undefeated, win their conferences, and finish as the top two ranked G5 teams. The MWC team gets the bid and the MAC team never had a chance to pass them (most years, the MAC team would be sweating it out hoping for another Oregon/USC situation). I want the W/L results of the season to determine bids, not a poll giving a team a head start. I'm aware that the midseason CFP poll is what is used in this case. I'm aware that the midseason CFP poll is what is used, but I doubt the MAC team would pass the MWC team in this example.

12 team playoff, all 10 conference champions, two at large bids, top four conference champs get a bye, first round on campus, and if you want to get really wild, the at large teams get seeded 11/12. That's my dream playoff.
 

MentorGrad2002

Well-known member
It's not perfect, but a step in the right direction. I say this as a fan of a MAC team - any model where every team in the country is not in complete control of its destiny is imperfect in my mind. Say you have a Mountain West team that begins the year ranked and a MAC team that does not garner any preseason AP/Coaches poll votes. Both teams go undefeated, win their conferences, and finish as the top two ranked G5 teams. The MWC team gets the bid and the MAC team never had a chance to pass them (most years, the MAC team would be sweating it out hoping for another Oregon/USC situation). I want the W/L results of the season to determine bids, not a poll giving a team a head start. I'm aware that the midseason CFP poll is what is used in this case. I'm aware that the midseason CFP poll is what is used, but I doubt the MAC team would pass the MWC team in this example.

12 team playoff, all 10 conference champions, two at large bids, top four conference champs get a bye, first round on campus, and if you want to get really wild, the at large teams get seeded 11/12. That's my dream playoff.
I think you are reading it wrong. There is no limit on bids from the power 5 or the non power 5. There isn't only one spot for a non power 5 champion. If 2 go undefeated, they will have a great shot at top 12 if they play anyone with a pulse

If the Mac team schedules all cupcakes out of conference and beats nobody , that's their fault.

And no way should all non power 5 champs get guaranteed spots. That means you are valuing the Mac champ the same way as a power 5 champ. In that case , why wouldn't Penn state join the Mac ?

It's not the same difficulty level. And I say that coming from a non power 5 champ college who won their conference 2 of the last 4 years (Florida Atlantic)
 

oxat622

Well-known member
I think you are reading it wrong. There is no limit on bids from the power 5 or the non power 5. There isn't only one spot for a non power 5 champion. If 2 go undefeated, they will have a great shot at top 12 if they play anyone with a pulse

If the Mac team schedules all cupcakes out of conference and beats nobody , that's their fault.

And no way should all non power 5 champs get guaranteed spots. That means you are valuing the Mac champ the same way as a power 5 champ. In that case , why wouldn't Penn state join the Mac ?

It's not the same difficulty level. And I say that coming from a non power 5 champ college who won their conference 2 of the last 4 years (Florida Atlantic)
I said in my first post that I think Coastal Carolina would get in over USC last year, but maybe I should change that to "should".

Using last year's results, I would be ecstatic if more than one G5 earned a bid, but at the same time, I think Oregon should be rewarded for winning their conference championship. I get that a team that had a season like theirs (losing three games) has only themselves to blame.

I suppose it's a matter of preference. Do you want to reward the teams that had the best body of work, or do you want to reward the teams that are playing the best at the end of the season?

Every other NCAA sport rewards its conference champion, and I'd like to see conference championships carry more weight. In every other place besides FBS football, the MAC level champ is valued the same as a P5 champ.

Not that this would really impact who would actually win the whole thing. I'm not so wishful to actually believe that a Ball State, San Jose State, or Coastal Carolina could do it.
 

MentorGrad2002

Well-known member
I said in my first post that I think Coastal Carolina would get in over USC last year, but maybe I should change that to "should".

Using last year's results, I would be ecstatic if more than one G5 earned a bid, but at the same time, I think Oregon should be rewarded for winning their conference championship. I get that a team that had a season like theirs (losing three games) has only themselves to blame.

I suppose it's a matter of preference. Do you want to reward the teams that had the best body of work, or do you want to reward the teams that are playing the best at the end of the season?

Every other NCAA sport rewards its conference champion, and I'd like to see conference championships carry more weight. In every other place besides FBS football, the MAC level champ is valued the same as a P5 champ.

Not that this would really impact who would actually win the whole thing. I'm not so wishful to actually believe that a Ball State, San Jose State, or Coastal Carolina could do it.
No the conference champs are not valued the same way in other sports. A MAC champ is often a 13 or 14 seed vs a 1 or 2 seed from a ACC champ in basketball. Also other sports have a ton of teams competing in the playoffs so it's easy to give auto bids

Football should be more selective and it won't be a monster playoff like D2 because that devalues the sport. Nobody cares about D2 regular season anyways so that doesn't matter to them

You've said some pretty idiotic things on the debate board. But saying a Mac champ should get a guaranteed spot just like a champ from the sec or big 10 has to be among your worst. The difficulty from winning at Miami Ohio vs Alabama going through lsu , Florida etc isn't the same.
 

Omar

Well-known member
I'm all for 8 or 12. Would prefer 8 but 12 is way better than 4

Every other sport in NCAA allows non power 5 teams a shot to win it all. Coastal Carolina ,rice etc win baseball. Akron and marshall win soccer. UNLV and butler types can get to finals or win them in basketball.

So why should major football have a system where a non power 5 never gets a shot ?

On top of that , the bowl games are meaningless now. Players rest for the draft and nobody cares about them. Better to have more meaningful football games.

This should also allow for more power 5 mega regular season matchups. And also give the best non power 5 more shots at the power 5 programs who dodge them to schedule cupcakes like Akron instead

This would be great for the sport because there is still incentive to win your conference, non conference matchups should improve and everyone has a shot to compete for the title
Bc football is a different sport where talent is more important. It’s a lot easier to pull off an upset in basketball or baseball. You’re never going to see Liberty beat Bama, it’s not going to happen.
 

MentorGrad2002

Well-known member
Bc football is a different sport where talent is more important. It’s a lot easier to pull off an upset in basketball or baseball. You’re never going to see Liberty beat Bama, it’s not going to happen.
Well if you never give teams a shot , it surely won't ever happen ..

I'd rather see the non power 5 at least have a shot. Right now my school Florida Atlantic can crush our conference and then get a bowl game vs Akron as a reward ... At least if we have a special season once every 50 years we'd have a shot to advance . Playoffs is better than a junk bowl game

You also ignored the rest of my post. And ignored that a team seeded 5-9 from a major conference could routinely win a game or 2 and cause shakeups in the playoffs

It's way better for the game to have 8 or 12 than 4
 

nwwarrior09

Well-known member
More games equals more revenue. It's simple. Also, look at the ideas being floated around. At 12 teams as opposed to 8 you can bank on all major conference champions getting in, as well as probably at least 1 G5 champ from either the AAC or the Mountain West, while not limiting opportunity for Notre Dame or any at-large teams.

Even if they were boxed out of the top handful of seeds, I don't see this forcing Notre Dame's hand to join a conference. On the contrary, under what's being discussed they would pretty much be guaranteed a spot in the playoff every year if they have two losses or less. At 12 teams the SEC gets at least three and as many as five teams in every year, resulting in huge cash for their member institutions' athletic departments. The other major conferences would probably be guaranteed to get in brand name programs that have two losses as at-larges. This is probably a path of less resistance to expanding the playoffs than going to 8 teams with 5-6 automatic bids.
 

Omar

Well-known member
Well if you never give teams a shot , it surely won't ever happen ..

I'd rather see the non power 5 at least have a shot. Right now my school Florida Atlantic can crush our conference and then get a bowl game vs Akron as a reward ... At least if we have a special season once every 50 years we'd have a shot to advance . Playoffs is better than a junk bowl game

You also ignored the rest of my post. And ignored that a team seeded 5-9 from a major conference could routinely win a game or 2 and cause shakeups in the playoffs

It's way better for the game to have 8 or 12 than 4
They don’t deserve a shot, they’re not good enough.
 
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