Can Mason B & G repeat another double win at DI State meet

Lancermania

Lancermania

Lancers lead the way!
Last year the Mason Comets scored the improbable double sweep of DI at the state meet. Can they do it again this year? I base this on how both teams did at the Nike XC Town Twilight Invitational on the La Vern Gibson course in Terre Haute, Indiana last weekend presented by NSAF (National Scholastic Athletics Foundation) In both the Boys Race of Champions (421 individuals and 44 teams scoring) and the Girls Race of Champions (397 individuals 44 teams) the Comets finished among the elite.
 
 
Lancermania said:
Last year the Mason Comets scored the improbable double sweep of DI at the state meet. Can they do it again this year? I base this on how both teams did at the Nike XC Town Twilight Invitational on the La Vern Gibson course in Terre Haute, Indiana last weekend presented by NSAF (National Scholastic Athletics Foundation) In both the Boys Race of Champions (421 individuals and 44 teams scoring) and the Girls Race of Champions (397 individuals 44 teams) the Comets finished among the elite.
Click to expand...
That would be amazing if that were done at the D1 level.
 
Before Saturday, I would have said most likely not but after the girls ran a very strong race, I think that they now have a chance.
The boys are very good through 4 and need to solidify their 5th.
D1 States will be very interesting with all the deep competition on both sides and I'm curious to see if someone blows up their team race because they go after the individual title.
 
VFL said:
Before Saturday, I would have said most likely not but after the girls ran a very strong race, I think that they now have a chance.
The boys are very good through 4 and need to solidify their 5th.
D1 States will be very interesting with all the deep competition on both sides and I'm curious to see if someone blows up their team race because they go after the individual title.
Click to expand...
There is no shortage of finding a 5th runner. Here are the times of 5th, 6th, and 7th runners at the Nike meet on the La Verne Gibson course: 16:25.00. 16:25.10, and 16:28.30. After the Mason boys won the second straight title (2021, 2022), the media reported that their chances were good for a threepeat with the guys they had returning.
 
Lancermania said:
There is no shortage of finding a 5th runner. Here are the times of 5th, 6th, and 7th runners at the Nike meet on the La Verne Gibson course: 16:25.00. 16:25.10, and 16:28.30. After the Mason boys won the second straight title (2021, 2022), the media reported that their chances were good for a threepeat with the guys they had returning.
Click to expand...
That may be one of the few times you can trust the media! :ROFLMAO:
They are the favorite at this point but there is a month till state and a lot can happen with teenage boys!
 
They are running well. They have the team, coaches, talent, depth, and school size (1000 more athletes than any other D1 school in the state).

It is extremely hard to win D1 with how competitive it is right now. The D1 boys have anywhere from 10-20 schools that are amazing right now.

Look at Columbus Regional for example. Columbus has 2 teams that I would call state title contenders that will not make it to the state meet. Every school has 2-3 studs with a 4-5-6 in the 16:30-16:45 range.

And to win twice in one day was even more difficult. I would gather it would be less than 10% odds of winning both on the same day right now.
 
EuclidandViren said:
They are running well. They have the team, coaches, talent, depth, and school size (1000 more athletes than any other D1 school in the state).
Click to expand...
Where are you getting these stats? It seems like you are just pulling numbers from the air.
While they may be the largest school in the state, they probably also have more clubs/activities that pull the kids from sports.
I'll repeat what I've always said, if size matters then why doesn't Oak Hills or Fairfield have strong XC teams since they are big schools? For their size the Lakota's have an occasional athlete or team but nothing consistent.
It's more about culture and development than school size.
 
Well this discussion again. If you think size doesn't matter, that's simply not true. Size doesn't determine who wins. Coaching, demographics, resources, culture and luck all play a part. (That last one plays a LOT larger part than most of us would like to admit.) The best teams in D3 can almost never beat with the best teams in D1. Does that mean that the D3 coaches are on the average a lot worse than the D1 coaches? In my time at my current school we have more often than not had girls teams that could beat Minster. I would certainly not argue that I or my predecessors were better coaches.

Ask yourself if Mason would be headed for team state titles this year if Hilliard, Olentangy and Dublin were all single high school districts?
 
EuclidandViren said:
They are running well. They have the team, coaches, talent, depth, and school size (1000 more athletes than any other D1 school in the state).

It is extremely hard to win D1 with how competitive it is right now. The D1 boys have anywhere from 10-20 schools that are amazing right now.

Look at Columbus Regional for example. Columbus has 2 teams that I would call state title contenders that will not make it to the state meet. Every school has 2-3 studs with a 4-5-6 in the 16:30-16:45 range.

And to win twice in one day was even more difficult. I would gather it would be less than 10% odds of winning both on the same day right now.
Click to expand...
1000 more ATHLETES? That is laughable. An insider at Mason told me the very large number of immigrants that move into the Mason district have ZERO affect on athletics. They might be helping the chess team but that’s about it. People have no clue what’s behind the numbers but go ahead and talk about the extra thousand athletes. 🙄
 
yj_runfan said:
1000 more ATHLETES? That is laughable. An insider at Mason told me the very large number of immigrants that move into the Mason district have ZERO affect on athletics. They might be helping the chess team but that’s about it. People have no clue what’s behind the numbers but go ahead and talk about the extra thousand athletes. 🙄
Click to expand...
Every school has those kids that have ZERO affect on athletics.

Mason vs Woodridge.... If Woodridge had 60% athletic participation and Mason 40%, Mason would still have 4 times the pool to draw from.,

No one is going to Pooh Pooh more kids to draw from. You give Larry Bailey if Rootstown 2-3 times more kids to draw from than what he has now and we would all be marveling at how dominant they are. Give him 10 times the number and it would be a bloodbath.

Size is a big factor and Mason has a big advantage over most. Just because some schools don't take advantage of their numbers doesn't mean numbers don't matter a lot. Just think how bad they would be with less.

We all see those schools that are just awful and have that one great runner. Give that coach 5 times the kids and they might luck into a really nice team. Same coach.
 
psycho_dad said:
Every school has those kids that have ZERO affect on athletics.

Mason vs Woodridge.... If Woodridge had 60% athletic participation and Mason 40%, Mason would still have 4 times the pool to draw from.,

No one is going to Pooh Pooh more kids to draw from. You give Larry Bailey if Rootstown 2-3 times more kids to draw from than what he has now and we would all be marveling at how dominant they are. Give him 10 times the number and it would be a bloodbath.

Size is a big factor and Mason has a big advantage over most. Just because some schools don't take advantage of their numbers doesn't mean numbers don't matter a lot. Just think how bad they would be with less.

We all see those schools that are just awful and have that one great runner. Give that coach 5 times the kids and they might luck into a really nice team. Same coach.
Click to expand...
How many titles did Mason win before the two current coaches took over? The comment I replied to did not say Mason had a 1000 more students to choose from. The ridiculous statement was 1000 more athletes. What would make you happy? Should Mason apologize? Should they give everyone else a head start? Should we put an asterisk behind their titles? What would make it fair?
 
yj_runfan said:
How many titles did Mason win before the two current coaches took over? The comment I replied to did not say Mason had a 1000 more students to choose from. The ridiculous statement was 1000 more athletes. What would make you happy? Should Mason apologize? Should they give everyone else a head start? Should we put an asterisk behind their titles? What would make it fair?
Click to expand...
What would make it fair? That's easy... create more Divisions so the smaller DI schools don't have to compete against Mason in the post-season. It's ridiculous to say school size doesn't matter when comparing similar programs (culture, good coaching., etc).
 
No one is arguing for asterisks beside Mason’s accomplishments. What I and others said in this thread is that arguing that size doesn’t matter or is only a small factor is just not true. And it’s insulting to a lot of very good coaches at smaller schools. The OHSAA literally separates schools into divisions based on school size in order to make competitionsmore fair. We dont need to do much speculation… just look at the athletes in some of the multi high school districts in central Ohio. Over the last couple years of Mason’s dominance would they have been so dominant of Hilliard, Dublin and Olentangy were all single school districts? How about Centerville’s girls? Would Mason beat an all Dublin team this year? No.
 
NWO XCTF said:
What would make it fair? That's easy... create more Divisions so the smaller DI schools don't have to compete against Mason in the post-season. It's ridiculous to say school size doesn't matter when comparing similar programs (culture, good coaching., etc).
Click to expand...
I wonder how many divisions it would take to satisfy people? The smallest school in the top division will always be much smaller than the biggest schools.
 
yj_runfan said:
I wonder how many divisions it would take to satisfy people? The smallest school in the top division will always be much smaller than the biggest schools.
Click to expand...
Amen................Play/Coach the 'hand you are dealt" to the best of your ability.................= Success.
 
yj_runfan said:
I wonder how many divisions it would take to satisfy people? The smallest school in the top division will always be much smaller than the biggest schools.
Click to expand...
Years ago I went through all the state meet results back 20 rears +. The enrollment group that is least represented is the 300-600. As I recall, Bowling Green girls had a nice run early 2000's and Louisville boys about 20 years ago. They were schools at the bottom end of D1.the exceptions were most often private schools, but that seems to be fading. Fairness wise, it looks like 150 and below then 151-300, then 301-600, then 691 +. Or a split of 1/3, 1/3, 1/6, 1/6

Mason is not on some unprecedented run. Boys and girls go on runs of back to back championships often.

I'm sure someone could go through a ton of data and figure out the most fair way of balancing divisions, Socioeconomics would seem to also play a big part.

Mason is very good. They should be.
 
psycho_dad said:
Years ago I went through all the state meet results back 20 rears +. The enrollment group that is least represented is the 300-600. As I recall, Bowling Green girls had a nice run early 2000's and Louisville boys about 20 years ago. They were schools at the bottom end of D1.the exceptions were most often private schools, but that seems to be fading. Fairness wise, it looks like 150 and below then 151-300, then 301-600, then 691 +. Or a split of 1/3, 1/3, 1/6, 1/6

Mason is not on some unprecedented run. Boys and girls go on runs of back to back championships often.

I'm sure someone could go through a ton of data and figure out the most fair way of balancing divisions, Socioeconomics would seem to also play a big part.

Mason is very good. They should be.
Click to expand...
I've heard of the many teams who have won back to back but has any boys team in the D1 ever Three-peated?
 
Ask Lexington boys if you don't think the size of schools you complete against don't matter. If they had just a few less students they would be in D2 this year and would be a shoe in to make state meets but D1 have little chance.
 
CC Track Fan said:
Ask Lexington boys if you don't think the size of schools you complete against don't matter. If they had just a few less students they would be in D2 this year and would be a shoe in to make state meets but D1 have little chance.
Click to expand...
Nobody said it doesn’t matter.
 
Wonder why more coaches aren’t moving to the biggest schools and reaping the easy championships? Why aren’t the 2nd, 3rd, 4th biggest schools replacing their coaches? They are wasting all those extra hundreds of athletes.
 
Last edited:
VFL said:
I've heard of the many teams who have won back to back but has any boys team in the D1 ever Three-peated?
Click to expand...
The only large school three-peat was Toledo Scott from 1934-6. I show 15 repeats (not counting Scott). I know the D1 designation did not begin until 1989, so no one has to point that out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: VFL
yj_runfan said:
Wonder why more coaches aren’t moving to the biggest schools and reaping the easy championships? Why aren’t the 2nd, 3rd, 4th biggest schools replacing their coaches? They are wasting all those extra hundreds of athletes.
Click to expand...
I think because most coaches do it for the kids and not for championships for themselves. There are exceptions, but not many in CC. The sportsmanship and many other life lessons that we want kids to learn from sports might be better in CC than nearly any other high school sport.
 
psycho_dad said:
I think because most coaches do it for the kids and not for championships for themselves. There are exceptions, but not many in CC. The sportsmanship and many other life lessons that we want kids to learn from sports might be better in CC than nearly any other high school sport.
Click to expand...
Might also add that most coaches are teachers. Many will want to coach where they teach. With the limits on how many years a teacher can be credited with if they move to another school, many of your established teacher-coaches aren't going to make that move.
 
Mr. Slippery said:
Might also add that most coaches are teachers. Many will want to coach where they teach. With the limits on how many years a teacher can be credited with if they move to another school, many of your established teacher-coaches aren't going to make that move.
Click to expand...
Plus few people are going to change jobs/move for a 5-7k stipend.
 
The difference is if you are a football coach they will find a way to get you a nice comfortable job or a part-time teaching job in the school so you can be fully attentive to the coaching duties. Whereas in cross country or track or many other sports that will not happen.
 
He succeeded there, but Dobson did move from a small school to Mason with Turpin sprinkled in there somewhere. Imagine if Taylor had had to run D1. That (those?) state titles would not have existed. I have no idea how he did at Turpin, but they're a small D1 school with no known history of dominance... Don't get me wrong: the guy knows what he's doing but he does have the luxury of depth at Mason where injury to a key element doesn't necessarily devastate a team like it does at a school with a hundred less runners on the team. It's a culture, it's a plan, and it's sheer numbers.
 
CC Track Fan said:
Plus few people are going to change jobs/move for a 5-7k stipend.
Click to expand...
I see it all the time that they teach in one school district and coach in another (near by) so they don't have to move/change jobs. It used to surprise me when I saw and I'm sure that there are various reason on why it happens that way.
I also see less and less teachers coaching and the programs are finding coaches who are not a part of the school district. This can be helpful because they are finding former athletes from that sport who were typically successful at the college level and know what they are doing.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top