California passes landmark bill that threatens to upend companies like Uber and Lyft

cabezadecaballo said:
It didn't seem that well known to you, considering that you ignore the self-directed and money chain factors in your post I quoted while sharing the IRS pdf. ?‍♂️


I think that the Cali lawmakers further defined it for Cali. They do not contradict Federal law in doing so.

These laws have been abused in many industries, and we have been complicit out of our selfish desires to keep prices down. It is worthy of a fresh look by responsible people.
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It is certainly well known to me. There is no need for any redefining, they are either a contractor or not, by the definition the IRS has already laid out. If you want to offer specifics about a business that is possibly in violation that would seem to be a topic to discuss, rather than the generalization that some companies are in violation.
 
Crusaders said:
I guess IRS definitions are sent down to earth by God and cannot be exploited in any way. Commandment 11: Thou Shall Not Adjust the Tax Code
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No, but our basic rights did come from God ...........and the Bill of Rights is OUR line of defense against government meddling/overreach/tyranny. We do not need micro-managed by government; in fact we do not need managed by government ...........only liberal pinheads think we do.


Have a good weekend.
 
Crusaders said:
I guess IRS definitions are sent down to earth by God and cannot be exploited in any way. Commandment 11: Thou Shall Not Adjust the Tax Code
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The thread is not about adjusting the tax code. The thread is about California not liking the tax code and instead of trying to change it the right way, they want to do an end run.

The IRS via cabezadecaballo said:
In determining the employment tax status of a worker, the IRS considers three categories of evidence: · Behavioral control, · Financial control, and · Relationship of the parties. It is important to remember that all the facts of your situation must be examined to determine whether the control test is satisfied-no single fact provides the answer.
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I've never driven for Uber or Lyft, nor I have I ever used their services, so I don't know the specifics of how they operate. That said...

Behavioral control: My understanding is that the drivers can set their own hours, use their own "tools" to perform their jobs, and have the ability to decline jobs that they don't want to take. There is no supervisor looking over the drivers' shoulders to make sure they do the job a certain way.

Financial Control: The drivers are paid for the jobs they complete. They aren't paid by the hour. They aren't paid a weekly salary. How many jobs they complete is entirely up to them.

Relationship of the parties: This is an interesting one, but I suspect if you asked a bunch of drivers if they felt they were employed by Uber vs being a contractor, you'd get a mix of responses. Certainly the companies view the relationship as one of a contractor. Even then, you missed the last sentence in your wall of text...no single fact provides the answer.
 
States are able to set their own rules for what is an employee or contractor. Suddenly state's rights aren't important?

I've never worked for one of these companies, I can only relay what I've read or been told by people who have. The general feeling I've picked up is that the companies are dishonest. They pitch the job as paying x amount while adjusting the fees on the fly and skimming from tips. The drivers are not able to market their services separately from those companies; they are always at the mercy of the rules of whichever app they're using. They have no negotiating power, and while they can decline jobs, they are often subjected to loss of hours, lower job quality offerings, etc. if they do so. So, most of them do not feel they are contractors but extensions of the companies they work for, or employees.
 
Crusaders said:
States are able to set their own rules for what is an employee or contractor. Suddenly state's rights aren't important?

I've never worked for one of these companies, I can only relay what I've read or been told by people who have. The general feeling I've picked up is that the companies are dishonest. They pitch the job as paying x amount while adjusting the fees on the fly and skimming from tips. The drivers are not able to market their services separately from those companies; they are always at the mercy of the rules of whichever app they're using. They have no negotiating power, and while they can decline jobs, they are often subjected to loss of hours, lower job quality offerings, etc. if they do so. So, most of them do not feel they are contractors but extensions of the companies they work for, or employees.
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According to this article most prefer things the way they are.

The study confirms what other studies have pointed out: The overwhelming number of drivers (95 percent, in this survey) say their flexible work schedules are "extremely important" or "very important." Most drivers work less than four hours a week. "Drivers who use the service to supplement their primary source of income account for the largest share of workers in the service," the study added.
 
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