AllSports12
Moderator
Those are the kind of mistakes that cost you the first couple of rounds after the game
Ask The Ump?
- Thread starter Yappi
- Start date
CoachHoversten
Well-known member
There are no rules against umpires having tattoos. I think there are no issues as long as the tattoos are not “in poor taste” (ie, nudity, questionable symbolism, choice words) in which case they would be best served covered.
If you’re talking total body tattoos, face, neck, etc, I could see some people judging a book by its cover, but if they’re professional, hustle, and do a good job, it would be forgotten I’d assume.
Thavoice
Well-known member
Are you serious?
I am being serious. I like the response from Coach H. I have them and I never judged when I was coaching. Now since I've been umpiring, my lower left arm has become pretty covered (Appropriate Tattoos).. There are some people who do judge those with them. The stigma is gone for many.. Just a question.
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
Looking for a refresher on dropped third strike, 1B occupied <2 out situations…
Is there a provision or standard that either ump will declare 1B to be occupied, “batter is out” on dropped third strikes with 0-to-1 outs? If so, does this rely on umpire determining baserunner wasn’t trying to advance via steal and instead is only trying to advance on a (dropped third strike) ball in the dirt?
Is there a provision or standard that either ump will declare 1B to be occupied, “batter is out” on dropped third strikes with 0-to-1 outs? If so, does this rely on umpire determining baserunner wasn’t trying to advance via steal and instead is only trying to advance on a (dropped third strike) ball in the dirt?
CoachHoversten
Well-known member
The runner advancing has no bearing on this rule. It first base was occupied at the time of the pitch and there are less than 2 outs, the batter is out, and the HP umpire should declare so, however, it is not our job to “coach” them.
If the catcher throws to first, it’s a live ball and runners can advance (not the batter) at their own risk.
I generally will say one time “batter is out”. If the defense doesn’t hear me or listen and doesn’t know the rule, it’s on them
CoachHoversten
Well-known member
It’s also worth noting that the batter running to first is by itself, not interference.
Ie, since they are already out and the defense “should” know this, then erroneously (or purposefully for that matter) running to first believing they can advance is not INT
Ie, since they are already out and the defense “should” know this, then erroneously (or purposefully for that matter) running to first believing they can advance is not INT
AllSports12
Moderator
I remember the days when a beard and/or mustache (even closely kept) wa forbidden. Thankfully, those days are gone at the HS level. However, there still are old school folks out there that may hold it against an umpire.
All we can do is to stay professional.
The Dock
Persona Non Grata
Appreciate it.
Yeah — this was a case where the catcher threw to first after the baserunner was making an advance toward 2B. It wasn’t communicated by the umps that 1B was occupied at the time of the dropped third strike.
Catcher throws to first, batter out. Runner assumes second. In defense of the umps, the way the defense should’ve played this (in retrospect) after retiring the runner at first was to charge the baserunner with the ball and apply a tag. May or may not have gotten the runner ruled out, but it would have at least it would have gotten a ruling of “safe/out” just to be sure.
CoachHoversten
Well-known member
Just to clarify, there was no out made at first base. The batter was already out.
They should have thrown to second in an attempt to retire the runner, who must be tagged since they were not forced to advance.
And the umpires do not have to declare anything special. The standard “he’s out” or “that’s strike three” suffices. They do not need to nor should they use long sentences like “first base if occupied, thus the batter can’t advance and is out!”
Last tattoo commentary from me.
I have a degree in Mathematics. I have a math inspired tattoo on the inside of my lower left arm. A catcher noticed it early in the game and he had just taken the AP Calc Exam in May. We ended up talking about math and other things between innings as we developed a great rapport... who knew what a positive it would turn out to be?
thePITman
Well-known member
Runner on 3rd base, 2 outs. Dropped 3rd strike. Instead of throwing the ball to first, the catcher tries to tag out the runner scoring from 3rd, but the runner beats the tag at home and is called safe. The batter doesn't run, so the catcher tags out the batter for the 3rd out. Does the run count? If the run DOES count, would it still have counted had they thrown the ball to first and stepped on the bag (instead of tagging the runner)?
CoachHoversten
Well-known member
No run shall score when the third out is made on the batter before they reach first base safely (this includes batter missing first base on way to second and being properly appealed).
Run doesn’t score, and batter is probably still running laps
Want to share a situation to see if it was handled correctly.
I had the plate. On this play, all i recall was the ball coming in high, batter squaring to bunt and the catchers glove coming up. Next thing the ball hits the top of half of my mask and gets peeled off. I stumble a little to the right and my partner comes in yelling foul ball. The offensive coach and batter were adamant he didn't foul it. I honestly don't recall a total miss or a foul. Coached asked me respectfully and I told him I have to defer to my partner because I'm not going to guess what happened based on what I had happen to me.
After the game, my partner said he killed it with a foul call because he could see I was out of it. He said it looked like a foul tip, but based on my body language, he wanted to end the play.
I had the plate. On this play, all i recall was the ball coming in high, batter squaring to bunt and the catchers glove coming up. Next thing the ball hits the top of half of my mask and gets peeled off. I stumble a little to the right and my partner comes in yelling foul ball. The offensive coach and batter were adamant he didn't foul it. I honestly don't recall a total miss or a foul. Coached asked me respectfully and I told him I have to defer to my partner because I'm not going to guess what happened based on what I had happen to me.
After the game, my partner said he killed it with a foul call because he could see I was out of it. He said it looked like a foul tip, but based on my body language, he wanted to end the play.
CoachHoversten
Well-known member
Lots of unknowns here…were there runners on? I am assuming so or you could have taken time to gather yourself without a made up call. But If so, making up a foul call intentionally is not “handled properly”.
There was a video making rounds from MLB last year of a walk off wild pitch that sent HPU to ground. Blasted his mask, sent him down, and r3 scored to win. There was no play at the plate but if there had been, would have been tough (though they have replay admittedly), but can you imagine if a BU called foul ? Take the walk off run away?
Let the play play out, if heaven forbid you miss something bc you’re seeing stars, you live with it and no one can really be mad about it.
Even if BU had the batter making an attempt, so it’s a strike either way, killing it prevents runners from moving up.
Now, if he just thought it was foul and made the call, so be it, that’s the call, but your writing made it seem like he admitted he made it up to spare you having to make a call while dazed
AllSports12
Moderator
So when he said it looked like a foul tip, did you ask him why he killed it?
Thanks. I felt bad about it when talking to the coach in terms of I can't guess what happened. He was frustrated but respectful of my situation. My partner made the call and I was in no place to say it didn't happen. I haven't had one to the head like that as an umpire. I was in the slot and having what felt like a good game, then WHAM!! Glad it was late in the game and I was able to push through it as it took a lot to maintain my focus.
I didn't ask him that directly. I remember him just saying he said it looked like a tip and he killed it. I wasn't feeling very well and just wanted to get home and rest.
Yappi
Go Buckeyes
Batter hits a ball to the 3rd baseman. The throw to 1st is down the line towards home plate a little, which takes the 1st baseman into the baseline. The ball is caught for the out and then the runner collides into the 1st baseman causing him to drop the ball. It was not a bang/bang play but the runner didn't have time to change their direction either. Probably out by two steps but the runner didn't anticipate the 1st baseman moving into the baseline (not malicious).
There was a runner on 1st base that went to 2nd base on the play. When the ball was dropped, the runner ran to 3rd.
The umpire called the batter out because of the force at first base.
Should this be called interference as the runner was put out before the contact? If yes, does the runner go back to 2nd?
There was a runner on 1st base that went to 2nd base on the play. When the ball was dropped, the runner ran to 3rd.
The umpire called the batter out because of the force at first base.
Should this be called interference as the runner was put out before the contact? If yes, does the runner go back to 2nd?
AllSports12
Moderator
Gets me thinking about roles reversed as I've never been on the other end of this situation.
If my plate partner gets plunked and there are runners on, he's obviously out of it. As the BU, hustle to get the best look at a potential play at any base? I'm thinking that's what I should do.
Go it! Foul ball
CoachHoversten
Well-known member
This is definitely a “had to be there” play, and it all boils down to judgment. To call INT on a non batted ball (this is a thrown ball) you need intent or an illegal action, such as a slide.
Simply running to the base and being unaware of f3 coming into baseline is not INT. If you judge the runner could have avoided contact and didn’t, thus choosing to make contact, that’s INT. Not all contact is Obs/Int, sometimes it is unavoidable, or a “train wreck”.
The HTBT comes from your story telling two versions…one says he wasn’t malicious and didn’t have time to move and the other says he was out by 2 steps, which is a pretty big margin . Now, if he’s got head down and just running, okay. Head up; sees f3, and acts like “baseline is mine, screw you, boom”, I’m getting INT
CoachHoversten
Well-known member
If he truly thought it was foul, it’s foul bc he called it so.
Dont make up a foul call is the moral of the story.
And don’t worry about being perfect…if a team is so self centered to argue a call that had to be made while HPU is laid out on the ground…
Yeah I am with the good Coach here. If you're down from this they take a base each then the coach is screaming for time to get you squared away. If not, he's an a*&h*$e.
AllSports12
Moderator
You are forgetting one other HTBT aspects of this play.....
The throw took F3 down the line towards the plate and into the basepath of the batter-runner......
Now we have to judge whether or not obstruction has occurred. The pure nature of a play at first base makes it likely that OBS has occurred. (runner going full tilt, throw takes F3 into the path of the batter-runner)
CoachHoversten
Well-known member
I didn’t forget…he said that the out was called “on the force” (separate discussion) and the runner was out by 2 steps before contact occurred.
Based on the writing, f3 clearly had the ball with foot on the base (since out wasn’t on a tag).
I don’t see OBS here and I know you don’t approve of introducing “well what if” scenarios that turn a specific question into a never ending diatribe
AllSports12
Moderator
Well, first.... It's not a force....I didn’t forget…he said that the out was called “on the force” (separate discussion) and the runner was out by 2 steps before contact occurred.
Based on the writing, f3 clearly had the ball with foot on the base (since out wasn’t on a tag).
I don’t see OBS here and I know you don’t approve of introducing “well what if” scenarios that turn a specific question into a never ending diatribe
Next, F3 having a foot on the base does not excuse them from being in the basepath without the ball.
Finally, all I did was add another component to the HTBT situation. A big one...... because it squelches the train wreck myth.
2 on, 2 out.
Batter hits safely and 2 runs score.
Offensive coach comes out and informs the umpire that they did not announce that the batter was a substitution (legal one as far as I know).
Umpire then rules that the batter is now out but the runs that scored on his hit remain on the board.
Is this the correct ruling?
Batter hits safely and 2 runs score.
Offensive coach comes out and informs the umpire that they did not announce that the batter was a substitution (legal one as far as I know).
Umpire then rules that the batter is now out but the runs that scored on his hit remain on the board.
Is this the correct ruling?