14Red
Well-known member
Ahhh, I thought the debate was weather it was a travel or not.
Ask the Ref?
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AllSports12
Moderator
You claimed they reviewed it and "still got it wrong"......
Were you talking about traveling?
14Red
Well-known member
AllSports12
Moderator
Ok....
Video review under NFHS Rules is limited to whether or a goal should be scored at the end of regulation or any overtime period and if need be, determine whether or not it is a two or three point goal.
It is not available for judgment calls such as traveling or what caused the ball to go out of bounds. (among others)
hubman
Well-known member
Even though it didn't get called in this case, I appreciated your description of what is and what isn't traveling when a player is on the floor. Very useful information.
14Red
Well-known member
That makes sense, we certainly don't want to get replay into high school sports for goodness sake. My original issue was I thought traveling was called to negate the basket. My original thought was with traveling, years ago if a player possessed the ball on the floor and made just about any movement, traveling was called. Someone on here said that you can literally slide for undetermined amount of time and by rule not be called for traveling. That almost never happens. I thought in the clip the basket was negated because the kid went to the floor and passed the ball to a teammate but was called for traveling.
AllSports12
Moderator
In 2009 the rule was added allowing a state association to utilize a replay monitor during state championship series contests to determine if a scored goal at the expiration of time in the fourth quarter or any overtime period (0:00 on the game clock) should be counted, and if so, determine if it is a two-point or a three-point goal.
That's never been the rule.
That is correct. Once the player has control of the ball and no longer sliding, the player may not roll over. If the player is flat on their back, they may sit up without violating. Any attempt to get to their feet is traveling unless they legally start a dribble.
Had it twice last night. People lost their minds when the player sat up without a whistle
In the interest of full disclosure, I am the scorekeeper for both my school's girls and boys programs.
I am just wondering out loud how common flagrant fouls and/or ejections are at the HS level. My school has been the target of actions worthy of such already twice this season, one girls and one boys.
In the girls instance, it was a loose ball after a missed shot and we got the rebound. Off the ball but in the immediate vicinity, a girl from the opposing team grabbed one of our players by the hair bun on top of her head and threw her to the ground. No call. To the best of my knowledge, we reached out to the other school and brought it to their attention. To their credit, they contacted us and informed us that they decided on their own to suspend the girl for two games.
In the boys game, we missed a three and the other team secured the rebound. Our player was completely vertical. The opposing player wound up, swung his elbow, and connected directly with our player on the chin and knocked him to the ground. The officials immediately huddled together and after a brief discussion, declared it to be a flagrant foul. Two FTs with us having possession out of bounds underneath the basket. Player was ejected.
So back to the original question....How common of an occurrence is this???
I am just wondering out loud how common flagrant fouls and/or ejections are at the HS level. My school has been the target of actions worthy of such already twice this season, one girls and one boys.
In the girls instance, it was a loose ball after a missed shot and we got the rebound. Off the ball but in the immediate vicinity, a girl from the opposing team grabbed one of our players by the hair bun on top of her head and threw her to the ground. No call. To the best of my knowledge, we reached out to the other school and brought it to their attention. To their credit, they contacted us and informed us that they decided on their own to suspend the girl for two games.
In the boys game, we missed a three and the other team secured the rebound. Our player was completely vertical. The opposing player wound up, swung his elbow, and connected directly with our player on the chin and knocked him to the ground. The officials immediately huddled together and after a brief discussion, declared it to be a flagrant foul. Two FTs with us having possession out of bounds underneath the basket. Player was ejected.
So back to the original question....How common of an occurrence is this???
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AllSports12
Moderator
When you consider how many games are played throughout the state in both boys and girls.....
..... Flagrant fouls are uncommon. That said, one is one too many.
AllSports12
Moderator
Well then……They screwed up.
Any flagrant foul Carrie’s an automatic ejection under NFHS Rules
I’m sure they won’t screw that up again
AllSports12
Moderator
A reminder to fans and fellow officials on here..... This is a rules and mechanics forum.
When we use video, it must be germane to the subject being discussed. When it's not, it typically turns into broad criticism...... which is what happened here.
Again, if you want to criticize officials for specific actions or inactions, there is plenty of space in the general basketball (or other sports) forums to point out the inadequacies of the officials during their games.
When we use video, it must be germane to the subject being discussed. When it's not, it typically turns into broad criticism...... which is what happened here.
Again, if you want to criticize officials for specific actions or inactions, there is plenty of space in the general basketball (or other sports) forums to point out the inadequacies of the officials during their games.
Curious One
Active member
I was recently talking to a group of NE Ohio ADs and they were talking about an official who they’ve all had who blows the whistle and calls, “Disconcertion,” turning the ball over. No one, myself included, knew what he meant. I forgot about it til today when I was sitting behind the table and a ref blew the whistle and called, “disconcertion.” When the coach asked what he was talking about, the ref told him to read the rule book. Aside from the fact that I wouldn’t want a guy working who responded to a legitimate question from a coach that way, does ANYONE have any idea what this guy is calling?
AllSports12
Moderator
Are you sure about the details on this?
In 2017 the NFHS edited the term "disconcert" from the rule book and replaced it with "distract". (maybe that official should read the rule book
)That said, there is no provision in the rules for the opponent of the team in possession of the ball (A) to lose possession of the ball because they distracted/disconcerted the team not in possession (B).
The rule pertains to the opponent of the free thrower for physical or verbal actions that distract the thrower after the ball is at their disposal.
AllSports12
Moderator
Immediately
shadow1479
Member
Looking for rule reference. A1 shoots and makes a three. While the ball is going through the net B2 fouls A2. This is B’s 5th team foul. Are two free throws awarded to A2?
AllSports12
Moderator
Is there a minimum length for halftime? Could teams agree to shorten halftime to 1 minute?
We are seeing more and more 2 quarter JV games because of the lack of players. That, in itself, is not a problem. I'm assuming the rules allow for periods to be shortened or ended at any time by mutual agreement like they are in football.
Around here, they play the two quarters like it is the 1st and 2nd quarter...with teams defending the basket nearest their bench the entire time. I've always thought they should play the 1st and 4th quarters. 1) this would swap ends, 2) if the game goes to OT, there's no issues with counting quarters because the OT is an extension of the 4th quarter (at least it used to be). The biggest downside would be if doing this would trigger some requirement for a full 10 minute halftime intermission.
We are seeing more and more 2 quarter JV games because of the lack of players. That, in itself, is not a problem. I'm assuming the rules allow for periods to be shortened or ended at any time by mutual agreement like they are in football.
Around here, they play the two quarters like it is the 1st and 2nd quarter...with teams defending the basket nearest their bench the entire time. I've always thought they should play the 1st and 4th quarters. 1) this would swap ends, 2) if the game goes to OT, there's no issues with counting quarters because the OT is an extension of the 4th quarter (at least it used to be). The biggest downside would be if doing this would trigger some requirement for a full 10 minute halftime intermission.
CasualFan24
Well-known member
I'm not sure what the rule would be for this, I'll leave that for @AllSports12 but, I'd venture to guess that if an AD or the coaches come to the JV officials before the tipoff and let them know their wishes as you described, I can't imagine a JV crew of officials fighting back about this....
AllSports12
Moderator
NFHS rules for high school age prescribe a minimum of a 10 minute intermission between halves with the ability to extend that to 15 minutes for special activities provided the visting team has been properly notified prior to the start of the game.
The rules committee(s) arrived at the 10 minute threshold based on information the NFHS receives from their medical consultants.
Anything less than the 10 minute minimum would have to originate from the OHSAA office prior to the contest.
What you describe is an exceptional circumstance that is governed by the OHSAA. The officials will follow whatever direction they receive from the OHSAA (via their assigner)
You are correct with regards to overtime periods being an extension of the 4th quarter. Whether or not it applies here is all up to the OHSAA powers that be.
TriangleMan
Hates Particle Man
Varsity game started with three officials. Between the first and second quarter one official was replaced by a substitute who had worked the junior varsity game.
When a replacement is required, is there any protocol to follow in determining who is the replacement?
Are the officials from the junior varsity game required to remain on-site through the varsity contest?
When a replacement is required, is there any protocol to follow in determining who is the replacement?
Are the officials from the junior varsity game required to remain on-site through the varsity contest?
AllSports12
Moderator
Typically, this is left up to the conference that is responsible for assiging the officials.
There are no requirements, however, most of the time at least one hangs around through halftime. (those are the ones who are looking to move up the ladder)
TriangleMan
Hates Particle Man
In a block/charge decision, what are the criteria for a defender to have established a legal guarding position?
Team A is inbounding the ball under their own basket. A player from Team A makes contact with a player from Team B and and the player from team A is called for a foul just as the ball its being released by the inbounding player. Is that a team control foul or should there be foul shots (Team B is in the bonus)? I'm assuming no time should come off the clock.
AllSports12
Moderator
Great question.....
To Obtain Legal Guarding Position
- The defender must have both feet touching the playing court (cannot be touching a sideline or an endline)
- The front of their torso must be facing the opponent. (Rule 4-23-2a,b)
After Obtaining Legal Guarding Position
-The player may have one or both feet on the playing court or be airborne, provided he/she has inbound status.
-The guard is not required to continue facing the opponent.
-The guard may move laterally or obliquely to maintain position, - provided it is not toward the opponent when contact occurs.
-The guard may raise hands or jump within his/her own vertical plane
-The guard may turn or duck to absorb the shock of imminent contact. (Rule 4-23-3a-e)
When Guarding an Opponent With The Ball or Guarding a Stationary Opponent Without The Ball
-No time or distance is required to obtain an initial legal position.
-If the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard must have obtained legal position before the opponent left the floor (Rule 4-23-4)
Guarding a Moving Opponent Without The Ball
-Time and distance are factors required to obtain an initial legal position
-The guard must give the opponent the time and/or distance to avoid contact
-The distance need not be more than two strides
-If the opponent is airborne, the guard must have obtained legal position before the opponent left the floor (Rule 4-23-5a-d)
AllSports12
Moderator
I believe you are referring to the restricted area that's delineated on NCAA and NBA courts. This semi-circle is not applicable under NFHS rules and has no bearing on block/charge calls.
AllSports12
Moderator
Another great question.....
You are correct that this is a team control foul. Team B will not attempt free throws, even if it's the 5th+ foul against A. No time should come off the clock since the ball was not legally touched.
TriangleMan
Hates Particle Man
Basis for the question was a recent play (play #2) from the YouTube channel A Better Official from the 1:50-6:30 mark. Never knew about 4-23-3a-e, and that is covered in the clip.