Ask The Ref?

Flbackyard said:
Question from our game last week. When our team had the ball on a third down there was a flag thrown in the secondary for defensive holding roughly a second before our quarterback was sacked. The officials marked the spot of the sack, then walked off the penalty from there. I know the HS rule doesn't award an automatic first down like higher levels do, but I have to think the penalty should have been marked from the original line of scrimmage and not from the spot of the sack correct? Or was the way it was addressed on the field correct?

Thank you!
Click to expand...
Correct enforcement. Even though the QB might have been planning to pass, no pass was attempted, so this is a running play. The basic spot on this running play is the end of the related run. Defensive penalties are enforced from the basic spot.
 
Flbackyard said:
Question from our game last week. When our team had the ball on a third down there was a flag thrown in the secondary for defensive holding roughly a second before our quarterback was sacked. The officials marked the spot of the sack, then walked off the penalty from there. I know the HS rule doesn't award an automatic first down like higher levels do, but I have to think the penalty should have been marked from the original line of scrimmage and not from the spot of the sack correct? Or was the way it was addressed on the field correct?

Thank you!
Click to expand...
Agree with Altor. And if it were holding on the offense at the line of scrimmage, they'd be marking 10 yards from the same spot in the other direction. And for the same reason (it's the basic spot).
 
AllSports12 said:
As Altor noted, not something we will get involved with.....

However, the regulation permits to coach to attend provided they are seated in the stands and have no contact whatsoever with the players or coaches during (including intermission) the contest.

They are not permitted to travel with the squad to an away contest.
Click to expand...
Thanks for replying!
 
Altor said:
Correct enforcement. Even though the QB might have been planning to pass, no pass was attempted, so this is a running play. The basic spot on this running play is the end of the related run. Defensive penalties are enforced from the basic spot.
Click to expand...
Interesting.

I did not know that. So it would have been in the offenses best interest for the QB to kind of just chuck a pass somewhere if he was aware of the flag?

Is this the same enforcement on all levels? I feel like an NFL or college game in the same scenario would nullify the sack. Is that correct?
 
Flbackyard said:
Interesting.

I did not know that. So it would have been in the offenses best interest for the QB to kind of just chuck a pass somewhere if he was aware of the flag?
Click to expand...
It is probably always in the offense's best interest to avoid a sack.

"Kind of just chuck a pass somewhere" makes coaches cringe as it creates intentional grounding penalties and interceptions.
 
Flbackyard said:
I did not know that. So it would have been in the offenses best interest for the QB to kind of just chuck a pass somewhere if he was aware of the flag?
Click to expand...
Not going to speak to the team's "best interest," but if the quarterback had attempted a legal pass (forward or backward), or fumbled the ball while he was in or behind the neutral zone, this now becomes a loose ball play. The basic spot is now the previous spot and the penalty enforced from there.
 
In my scenario above about the 35 yards, what happens if the offense is inside B's 35-yard line? Does A then lose this option and is forced to go for it on 4th down?
 
Ericles said:
In my scenario above about the 35 yards, what happens if the offense is inside B's 35-yard line? Does A then lose this option and is forced to go for it on 4th down?
Click to expand...
Maybe.

That is where the discussion is. If the offense is on the 30 and the ball is moved 35 yards that would put the ball in the end zone. That is a touch back, and the ball would be spotted on the 20.

Instead, the state is advising us to bring the coaches together before the game and "It is the coaches’ decision as to what to do." The coaches could agree to a touch back. They might agree to move the ball halfway. They might agree that you have to go for it. Whatever they want.

Remember both coach must agree not to punt before the game starts.
 
Last edited:
chs1971 said:
Maybe.

That is where the discussion is. If the offense is on the 30 and the ball is moved 35 yards that would put the ball in the end zone. That is a touch back, and the ball would be spotted on the 20.

Instead, the state is advising us to bring the coaches together before the game and "It is the coaches’ decision as to what to do." The coaches could agree to a touch back. They might agree to move the ball halfway. They might agree that you have to go for it. Whatever they want.

Remember both coach must agree not to punt before the game starts.
Click to expand...
This sounds like it would introduce way too much subjectivity into the situation, which it seems like you as an official would not want.
 
Ericles said:
This sounds like it would introduce way too much subjectivity into the situation, which it seems like you as an official would not want.
Click to expand...
No kidding ;)

We'd rather just...

1) Follow the NFHS rules
or
2) Follow a written regulation from the OHSAA and not have it subject to weekly changes from the coaches.

At the end of the day.... we just do what we are instructed to do.
 
3rd quarter of a game. 33 point lead so the running clock in effect. Team A punts to team B. Team B muffs the punt and team A recovers. Is the clock still running? Since there was no change of possession I would assume the clock would continue to run. I was watching the game on line so I couldn't see what the clock was actually doing.
 
nupanther said:
3rd quarter of a game. 33 point lead so the running clock in effect. Team A punts to team B. Team B muffs the punt and team A recovers. Is the clock still running? Since there was no change of possession I would assume the clock would continue to run. I was watching the game on line so I couldn't see what the clock was actually doing.
Click to expand...
Since A still had the ball at the end of the down, the clock continues to run.

The same goes for similar situations such as kickoffs, interceptions, and fumble recoveries.
 
nupanther said:
3rd quarter of a game. 33 point lead so the running clock in effect. Team A punts to team B. Team B muffs the punt and team A recovers. Is the clock still running? Since there was no change of possession I would assume the clock would continue to run. I was watching the game on line so I couldn't see what the clock was actually doing.
Click to expand...
One of the 4 things that stops a running clock is change of possession. Usually after a punt, there's a COP, so the clock stops. In this case, there wasn't, so it doesn't.

(The other 3 are time out, injury, and scoring.)
 
If A1 catches a pass near the sideline but is pushed out of bounds by B1 before he lands, is it a no catch all day or does it depend on whether the covering official thinks A1 would’ve landed inbounds if contact was not made?
 
JackEd said:
If A1 catches a pass near the sideline but is pushed out of bounds by B1 before he lands, is it a no catch all day or does it depend on whether the covering official thinks A1 would’ve landed inbounds if contact was not made?
Click to expand...
Pushed out? Incomplete all day.

Carried out? It's a catch.
 
JackEd said:
If A1 catches a pass near the sideline but is pushed out of bounds by B1 before he lands, is it a no catch all day or does it depend on whether the covering official thinks A1 would’ve landed inbounds if contact was not made?
Click to expand...
Agree with chs answer. This is not really a judgment call, and to rule something other than "pushed" out of bounds would have to be incredibly obvious.

I believe the answer is the same at all levels at this point, BTW. The primary rules difference concerning catches at the boundary is how many feet have to be inbounds for a catch.
 
To my officiating colleagues.....

I appreciate and welcome the responses to the questions posted on here. (particularly the newer faces answering questions on here)

However, once a question is answered, I want to leave it that way. I want to avoid having this forum turn into what many officiating group forums out there have turned into >>> a question asked, then answered 15 times, sometimes 15 different ways. ;)

Asked >> answer >> move on to the next question.

And to all those asking the questions..... thanks for participating. (and thank Yappi for setting this up 9 years ago) We're here to help clear things up for people who really want to understand why we do the things the way we do out on the field.

Thanks...... AS12
 
Last edited:
B1 commits pass interference against A1 while the ball is in the air past the NZ. A1 scores on the play. Does A have the option to enforce on try/kickoff or do they have to decline the penalty and take the results of the play.
 
I’ll ask an even dumber question. How long has this been a rule? It happened tonight in my sons freshman game and I didn’t even notice until a couple dads told me about it. Thanks for the information. Initially R signaled declined, that’s why I suppose the parents were thrown off.
 
JackEd said:
I’ll ask an even dumber question. How long has this been a rule? It happened tonight in my sons freshman game and I didn’t even notice until a couple dads told me about it. Thanks for the information. Initially R signaled declined, that’s why I suppose the parents were thrown off.
Click to expand...
Far from a dumb question......

The component allowing for the option to enforce on the kickoff was added in 2007. (enforcement on the try was already an option)

Unfortunately, it still is an often misapplied rule by officials.
 
AllSports12 said:
Far from a dumb question......

The component allowing for the option to enforce on the kickoff was added in 2007. (enforcement on the try was already an option)

Unfortunately, it still is an often misapplied rule by officials.
Click to expand...
We were the beneficiary of this in our Week 1 game and the officiating crew administered it poorly.
 
A's ball 4 and 1. QB A1 spreads his arms wide and claps his hands but the ball is not snapped. He repeats this over and over before calling a timeout before delay of game is called. I thought this may be considered "simulating the snap" or deception because the whole point was to try and draw the defense offsides. For what it's worth this was the only time in the entire game QB A1 tried this tactic. Thanks
 
JackEd said:
A's ball 4 and 1. QB A1 spreads his arms wide and claps his hands but the ball is not snapped. He repeats this over and over before calling a timeout before delay of game is called. I thought this may be considered "simulating the snap" or deception because the whole point was to try and draw the defense offsides. For what it's worth this was the only time in the entire game QB A1 tried this tactic. Thanks
Click to expand...
Clapping hands is not a foul.

Deceiving the defense by changing the cadence or snap count is not a foul.

He isn't pretending to hike the ball so he is not simulating the snap.

If the QB's "shift or feigned charge simulates action at the snap" well, that is the definition of a false start.
 
Now I've got a question.

Game and play clock both running. Offense going fast.

Umpire spots the ball, steps away, and the center snaps the ball before the U is in his IP.

a. Legal snap, play on, or

b. Dead ball delay of game foul.

I know we have had both interpretations. What is the current ruling?

( And I will probably ask the powers that be in Columbus anyway.)
 
Offense huddles with 10. Breaks huddle and gets set. Prior to snap, offensive player runs onto field from sideline (not offsides, more behind O) and lines up at receiver. Penalty?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top