All electric vehicles...will not work.

Hammerdrill

Well-known member
I want to correct a possible misconception i do not want you to think I am all for gas powered vehicles. I am in favor of hydrogen power. Smaller engines, super power, can be refueled just like gas powered and the best part no pollution. Japan and some others seem to be doing the research and development on this I wish we as a nation were promoting this over electric.
Toyota is going in that direction.
 

Hammerdrill

Well-known member
Thank goodness that the coal, oil and gas industry is pure capitalism.

The US government has subsidized coal, oil, and gas for decades, despite the fact that a majority of voters want to end fossil fuel subsidies. Currently, experts estimate that direct subsidies to the fossil fuel industry total around $20 billion every year, $15 billion of that from the federal government.Feb 24, 2021

OOOPS, maybe I'm wrong. Is $20 billion a lot?
lol, your logic is stunning.
 

ProV1

Well-known member
how do YOU know that there will be NO subsidy in 5-7 years?
Because they won’t need to be because demand is going to continue to grow. Even if there is, it will be immaterial. Trust me. Car companies are not investing billions in all electric strategies because of a business case contingent on subsidies.
 

TigerPaw

Well-known member
We subsidize ALOT more than that! The Big Oil lobby has tentacles throughout our government, on both aisles. And make us (taxpayers) eat nearly all of the pollution, health, and environmental costs. Including with our lives.

And that is apart from our foreign policy and military adventures. Oil is and has always been central to it.
 

ProV1

Well-known member
What possible reason would they have to make this shift? Businesses do not make major decisions on what to produce for no reason. I'm not talking about the car subsidies, exclusively. Tesla was built by tax payer's dollars. It was crony capitalism pure and simple.
They are all making this shift because they know it is the future and they don’t want lose an adoption wave to their competitors. That adoption wave and business case is not built on subsidies. The EV market is global and while many governments provide incentives, some like China are already peeling them back.
 

Hammerdrill

Well-known member
They are all making this shift because they know it is the future and they don’t want lose an adoption wave to their competitors. That adoption wave and business case is not built on subsidies. The EV market is global and while many governments provide incentives, some like China are already peeling them back.
"They know it is the future". Sure, but the point is, why is it the future? because of artificial pressures being applied by governments. I mean entire cities have moved to ban non EVs. For no other reason than they dislike them.
 

ProV1

Well-known member
"They know it is the future". Sure, but the point is, why is it the future? because of artificial pressures being applied by governments. I mean entire cities have moved to ban non EVs. For no other reason than they dislike them.
Total BS. Pressure? What pressure? The only pressure is share price. Nobody is making them go this route. They are spending billions because they see the future and want to get their fair share. Blaming a tax credit is stupid and lazy.
 

Hammerdrill

Well-known member
Total BS. Pressure? What pressure? The only pressure is share price. Nobody is making them go this route. They are spending billions because they see the future and want to get their fair share. Blaming a tax credit is stupid and lazy.
Tax credit? It is way more than any tax credit, which I stated. Seems you don't read.
 

19AL63

Well-known member
The only think I worry about with hydrogen is you really have to have bullet proof fuel cells otherwise you could be driving a bomb just waiting to be setoff by accident.
 
Last edited:

bigkat

Well-known member
Because they won’t need to be because demand is going to continue to grow. Even if there is, it will be immaterial. Trust me. Car companies are not investing billions in all electric strategies because of a business case contingent on subsidies.
LOL!!!! so you are just making chit up.....
 

bigkat

Well-known member
They are all making this shift because they know it is the future and they don’t want lose an adoption wave to their competitors. That adoption wave and business case is not built on subsidies. The EV market is global and while many governments provide incentives, some like China are already peeling them back.
while this is not about electric cars themselves( besides using them to power those cars), wonder why china is in the process of building over 1,000 coal plants?
 

Hammerdrill

Well-known member
Most people who by EV’s and hybrids are not rich. Most those cars MSRP under 40K.
"A study by the University of California-Davis showed that in California, people with income over $150,000 per year purchase a third of electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs). People with household income of $100,000 to $149,000 account for about 20% and people with household income of $50,000 to $99,999 per year account for about 27% of these vehicles."

Keep in mind too that the average age of new car buyers is 53 years old, and climbing. Average people are not buying these cars, despite them becoming more affordable, they are still more expensive than a non hybrid.
 
Last edited:

MoeBiden

Active member
"A study by the University of California-Davis showed that in California, people with income over $150,000 per year purchase a third of electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs). People with household income of $100,000 to $149,000 account for about 20% and people with household income of $50,000 to $99,999 per year account for about 27% of these vehicles."

Keep in mind too that the average age of new car buyers is 53 years old, and climbing. Average people are not buying these cars, despite them becoming more affordable, they are still more expensive than a non hybrid, or EV.
link to the full study: https://escholarship.org/uc/item/0tn4m2tx
 

ProV1

Well-known member
LOL! I can't afford a car under 40K and I have my house paid for and make more than most.
If you have no mortgage and make a reasonable living, you should be able to afford a 40K car. Regardless, that is far from rich.
 

ProV1

Well-known member
lol. If you think the only money that Tesla got in the form of tax dollars was from the sale of their cars, you are wrong.
I’m not talking about Tesla. I’m taking about most every auto maker in existence. Also, please don’t take to me about subsidies to companies. Oil and Gas has no equal in that department.
 

ProV1

Well-known member
"A study by the University of California-Davis showed that in California, people with income over $150,000 per year purchase a third of electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrid electric vehicles (PHEVs). People with household income of $100,000 to $149,000 account for about 20% and people with household income of $50,000 to $99,999 per year account for about 27% of these vehicles."

Keep in mind too that the average age of new car buyers is 53 years old, and climbing. Average people are not buying these cars, despite them becoming more affordable, they are still more expensive than a non hybrid.
So most who purchase them earn less than 150K per year? Only 1/3rd over 150K? Exactly. Most who buy them are not rich. Also, what is the date of that study? Also, That is only California? How about the rest of the country.

Thanks for making my point.
 

Hammerdrill

Well-known member
So most who purchase them earn less than 150K per year? Only 1/3rd over 150K? Exactly. Most who buy them are not rich. Also, what is the date of that study? Also, That is only California? How about the rest of the country.

Thanks for making my point.
The average age alone proves your point wrong. You can choose what income level equals rich, but you can't get around that extremely high age for new car buyers. The average person isn't buying an EV or a hybrid.
 

Hammerdrill

Well-known member
I’m not talking about Tesla. I’m taking about most every auto maker in existence. Also, please don’t take to me about subsidies to companies. Oil and Gas has no equal in that department.
Coal and gas are used to power our country, hardly the same thing as EVs. Food and power are more important than electric cars, particularity since we already have cars that aren't electric. So sorry, your analogy doesn't really work.
 

ProV1

Well-known member
The average age alone proves your point wrong. You can choose what income level equals rich, but you can't get around that extremely high age for new car buyers. The average person isn't buying an EV or a hybrid.
I never said the average age person. I simply responded to a claim that only rich people buy EV’s and Hybrids. That is blatantly untrue and your ancient study from only one state even proved it.
 

ProV1

Well-known member
Coal and gas are used to power our country, hardly the same thing as EVs. Food and power are more important than electric cars, particularity since we already have cars that aren't electric. So sorry, your analogy doesn't really work.
It’s not an analogy. It’s a direct reference to another industry which has the corner on subsidies. It does not matter how justified you think they are.
 

Hammerdrill

Well-known member
It’s not an analogy. It’s a direct reference to another industry which has the corner on subsidies. It does not matter how justified you think they are.
of course it matters if they are justified, why wouldn't it? Why not subsidize everything then?
 
.
Top