SWOhioHoops
Member
Princeton vs Kings: PRINCETON
MND vs Wayne: MND
Mason vs Cville: MASON
WW vs Boro: BORO
MND vs Wayne: MND
Mason vs Cville: MASON
WW vs Boro: BORO
23-24 SW Ohio
- Thread starter JackAttack99
- Start date
JackAttack99
Member
This is a pretty wild statement in my opinion.
Mason just beat them in a game @Princeton where they led after every quarter. And it took an OT comeback win for Princeton to win the first time.
And while Princeton has kind of been on a downward trend (Oak Hills and Lakota West games were closer than they should have been), Mason has very much been the opposite.
JackAttack99
Member
I have literally no affiliation with anyone Princeton plays, but your response just tells me you know my statement is correct.
Agree that Kings should give Princeton a battle (LY Reg Final Rematch), if they can limit Turnovers
Reminder Kings won a state championship in VB, Marchal probably wasn't in BB game shape (Trapp plays both sports as well) until after New Years. Kings 11-2 since early Jan.
This group of kids from Kings are winners and battle tested, this will be their 10th Post Season game in last 2 seasons.
Think you've correctly noted "cruise control" for Princeton since Mason L, but most likely because they've played pretty weak competition.
Lakota West was only "competitive" game and that was without Fortson
As for Princeton (10+) if Mason rematch?????
Looked it up, they've played 8 times since beginning of 20-21 season.
1pt, 3pt (OT), 4 pt, 6pt, 7pt and 3 8pt games.
10+ pt game either way would seem highly doubtful if that game becomes a reality.
Anything can happen this deep in the tourney. However, Kings best opponent this season that most closely resembles Princeton is Winton Woods. Both have dominant bigs, long wings, and athletic guards. Kings didn’t match up well with WW in two games. I don’t think this game is particularly close unless Kings shoots the lights out and Princeton tries to coast. Princeton also has the added benefit of having played 3 straight at Lakota East. Princeton decides to turn it up and wins by 20.
Can't get swept by Lebanon and lose to Milford and complain about the computers.
Northside24
Member
Still think scheduling plays a massive role when talking about tournament readiness. The 5, 6, and 7 seeds played arguable the worst non-conference schedule of any teams in the top 10, all 3 lost in the tournament by 15+ and are sitting at home on district day… was playing an easy schedule worth getting the higher seed?
Madame Secretary
Active member
Who do you think Ross and Goshen would of needed to play to beat Princeton and Mason? Didn't Kings and West Clermont play nearly the same schedule? I am not disrespecting or disagreeing with your point about scheduling, but I do not believe it is a massive factor for tournament success.
Northside24
Member
Wasn’t speaking about Ross? Goshen played 3 games against D1 non-conference opponents and it was Belbrook, Mt. Healthy, and Talawanda. Played 7 Non-D1 schools non-conference. 0 games that would simulate a sectional final type game.
Lakota West non-conference:
A JV team from Australia that didn’t even count.
3 walk-thru games in Florida
A D2 team from Toledo
A 10-11 Toledo Notre Dame team
0 games that would simulate a sectional final type experience.
West Clermont non-conference:
Seton, Mt. Healthy, Talawanda, Canada team, Ursuline, Canal Winchester.
Canal Winchester is a solid win, but overall really weak for a team that was favored by seed to win their sectional (again).
Kings at least played Fairmont, Wayne, and Bellbrook non-conference.
Winton Woods, Princeton, MND, Mason all step up and play each other in the regular season. Springboro played East, Purcell, and a gauntlet tourney over Christmas. Centerville put Olmsted Falls and MND on the schedule. Coincidence that they’re all playing on District day?
Northside24
Member
Everyone is all for taking out the human element of the voting… until factors don’t get taken in to account with the new seeding.
West Clermont sits at 5 after losing to Kings twice, @ Walnut, @ Winton Woods. Beat Lebanon and Walnut Hills both without their best players playing a single minute. Loss to Canadian team didn’t count toward their record. Taken to OT @ home by Milford. Good wins against Winton Woods, Lebanon the first time, and Canal Winchester. Feasted on the bottom half of the ECC and a really bad non conference schedule otherwise.
Lakota West goes 1-5 against East, Mason, and Princeton, with the 1 win being a MASSIVE RPI boost when Princeton was missing half their starters. Feasts on the bottom half of the GMC and a poor non conference schedule.
What proof was there that in a normal seeding with human elements that those 2 teams were better than Kings? Especially when looking at head to head.
Moving forward, what gives Dan Wallace the motivation to schedule Pick Central, MND, Alter, and Springboro? If he played Seton, Mt. Healthy, and Talawanda like everyone else ranked ahead of him, he would’ve been a top 5 seed and would be playing in a district game no doubt in my mind. Sets a precedent moving forward.
West Clermont sits at 5 after losing to Kings twice, @ Walnut, @ Winton Woods. Beat Lebanon and Walnut Hills both without their best players playing a single minute. Loss to Canadian team didn’t count toward their record. Taken to OT @ home by Milford. Good wins against Winton Woods, Lebanon the first time, and Canal Winchester. Feasted on the bottom half of the ECC and a really bad non conference schedule otherwise.
Lakota West goes 1-5 against East, Mason, and Princeton, with the 1 win being a MASSIVE RPI boost when Princeton was missing half their starters. Feasts on the bottom half of the GMC and a poor non conference schedule.
What proof was there that in a normal seeding with human elements that those 2 teams were better than Kings? Especially when looking at head to head.
Moving forward, what gives Dan Wallace the motivation to schedule Pick Central, MND, Alter, and Springboro? If he played Seton, Mt. Healthy, and Talawanda like everyone else ranked ahead of him, he would’ve been a top 5 seed and would be playing in a district game no doubt in my mind. Sets a precedent moving forward.
I tend to agree with most others, the schedules aren't the problem.
Kings also played Edgewood, Sycamore and McNick, which are similar to West Clermont playing Talawanda, Mt Healthy and Ursuline, and the games against Canal Winchester, Canada Team, and Seton are similar to Kings playing Bellbrook, Fairmont, Wayne
Last year, Kings played Wilmington, McNick, Bellbrook, Sycamore, Fairmont, Edgewood, while West Clermont played Lakota East, Magnificat, Newark, Western Brown, Seton, and Ursuline(who was 20-5 the year before), so really not much difference
What's the difference then??? Two things.....#1 Ingram = STAR, when Kings plays they most likely have the BEST player on both ends of the floor, this year and last and #2, and I know this wont be very popular for some, and no disrespect to WC but they really are just ok. Other than Hale, who would you pick to start for Kings, or any other top ECC team??? Same with West, I think they have 2 stars, BUT they are young, to young to win against seasoned vets. It will be interesting to see if Hale can be WCs version of Ingram as she heads into her junior season.
Even last season, I would take Kings 2 senior guards(4 yr starters) the big kid Wells, and Ingram over WCs squad, other than Hale who was still just a frosh. I think the Hicks kid was WAY OVERATED against other kids who matched her physicality, because she wasn't an overly skilled player. Even the Swisshelm kid had severe athleticism issues, Ingram was better than her last year as a junior, she just does more things
To further prove the point, Kings had basically the same line up 3 seasons ago, Juniors - Rawlings, Barnett, Wells, and Sophomores - Ingram, Marchal, Drew. And they lost in the 1st round 42-32 to Walnut who was 7-15 that season and played what you called a weak non conference schedule.
Kings was fortunate to have 2 good classes back to back, but they had to grow and mature before they could make some noise as seniors and juniors.
Next year will be interesting to see how they fill the shoes of Ingram and the other experienced players they lose
Northside24
Member
So doesn’t this argument prove the point that the RPI is flawed? Kings is the better team? And they weren’t even in the top 10?
Madame Secretary
Active member
I do not believe you could find anyone to argue with about some of the shortcomings of the RPI. Kings for whatever reasons had 3-4 losses that hurt them. All close and to good teams. But ones they would be expected to win. I would like to see how Martin's would have seeded the teams this year as compared to MaxPreps. Still the 5 teams going to District Finals are certainly worthy representatives of Southwest District-Cincinnati
The big flaw with the RPI is using the total before the season is complete. Kings win over Fairmont didnt count. Wests losses to Mason and Princeton didnt count...because they were after the draw. Maybe kings and West flip if all the games counted
Bottom line if you want a high seed with this RPI, you need to win games, and win games against teams with wins.
You also fail to note Kings lost to Lebanon 2x, the 2nd time at home after Mueller went out in the 1st 2 minutes, and also beat Walnut without Ross, and also lost to Milford in OT, and when WC beat Lebanon on the road Hale barely played, scored 2 points and missed the whole 2nd half
Its the players that win games, not the seed, like 2 years ago when #20 Walnut beat #11 Kings
ThingsFallApart
Member
Honestly I was kind of impressed with the season WC had considering they lost their whole starting 5 from last year and only returned 4 players with real varsity experience.
The hardest thing for schools to do is develop a “program” that enables them to play a consistent difficult schedule
It doesn’t happen overnight and most game contracts are at least 2 years (Home & Home) it takes time (decade of success)
Lakota East, Springboro and Bellbrook recently have all been successful with great players and able to develop a reputation of winning and being competitive
Hence the ability to elevate their programs via tougher scheduling
But in all teams cases you can’t do anything about your league’s competitiveness (Bellbrook, Goshen, Harrison, MND)
Princeton, MND, Mason, Centerville and Fairmont are the “it” teams in SW OH that consistently have D1 prospects, stars and have regularly played tougher competition and travelled to out of state competitive holiday tournaments and CITC over last 10-15 years
Lakota West has the same pedigree over the last decade, but Fishman needs to have this class of sophomores step it up to continue the Firebirds success
WC was invited to CITC last season because of Hicks star power and Hale’s ability as a Freshman but will it continue?
Carlton understands this from his years at Lakota West and has begun to develop it with Trammell’s help at Winton Woods
“If” Kings can follow these 2 classes with success they could be on their way to being a “consistent” regional power
Big time teams want to play vs competitive players and teams to spotlight their players, teams and sucess
The Goshens, Setons, Harrisons, Lebanons, Western Browns, Talawandas ………of the world all should or hopefully do know this
Regional powers aren’t flashes in the pan because of 1 or 2 superstars on teams in random years, they are programs that play consistently hard and have continuity from class to class
Not to point a finger, but to give an example:
Watched replay of Goshen/Mason game, timeout called in 3rd or 4th Q. Mason was up by 20+
All 5 Mason players ran to bench, 4 of 5 Goshen players walked (some up to 75 ft) to bench. Details matter in building programs
HS timeouts are only 1:00, if players walk to huddle, coach could lose 10-15 seconds of coaching time in huddle
To put the consistency of great scheduling into perspective
Will Purcell Marian still have the “it” factor after Alexander graduates in ‘25? And did they before she arrived?
It doesn’t happen overnight and most game contracts are at least 2 years (Home & Home) it takes time (decade of success)
Lakota East, Springboro and Bellbrook recently have all been successful with great players and able to develop a reputation of winning and being competitive
Hence the ability to elevate their programs via tougher scheduling
But in all teams cases you can’t do anything about your league’s competitiveness (Bellbrook, Goshen, Harrison, MND)
Princeton, MND, Mason, Centerville and Fairmont are the “it” teams in SW OH that consistently have D1 prospects, stars and have regularly played tougher competition and travelled to out of state competitive holiday tournaments and CITC over last 10-15 years
Lakota West has the same pedigree over the last decade, but Fishman needs to have this class of sophomores step it up to continue the Firebirds success
WC was invited to CITC last season because of Hicks star power and Hale’s ability as a Freshman but will it continue?
Carlton understands this from his years at Lakota West and has begun to develop it with Trammell’s help at Winton Woods
“If” Kings can follow these 2 classes with success they could be on their way to being a “consistent” regional power
Big time teams want to play vs competitive players and teams to spotlight their players, teams and sucess
The Goshens, Setons, Harrisons, Lebanons, Western Browns, Talawandas ………of the world all should or hopefully do know this
Regional powers aren’t flashes in the pan because of 1 or 2 superstars on teams in random years, they are programs that play consistently hard and have continuity from class to class
Not to point a finger, but to give an example:
Watched replay of Goshen/Mason game, timeout called in 3rd or 4th Q. Mason was up by 20+
All 5 Mason players ran to bench, 4 of 5 Goshen players walked (some up to 75 ft) to bench. Details matter in building programs
HS timeouts are only 1:00, if players walk to huddle, coach could lose 10-15 seconds of coaching time in huddle
To put the consistency of great scheduling into perspective
Will Purcell Marian still have the “it” factor after Alexander graduates in ‘25? And did they before she arrived?
Vincent for President
Member
How much do you think the 22 regular season game max has to do with scheduling tougher matches along with the AD's just wanting to get the schedule filled. Outside the schools you mention at the top, how much do the teams schedule really change from year to year.
CincyIllinifan
Active member
Good point - especially for those in large conferences. For example, GMC teams have to play 16 conference games, which doesn’t leave much for a decent non-conference schedule.
Regional Matchups are pretty much Chalk!
Wouldn’t have been surprised either way with Boro/Winton Woods outcome.
Still don’t understand why SW OH D1 is ONLY Regional in the state (any division) that plays Semifinals on 2 nights instead of both games on 1 night.
Pure money grab?
See a Princeton win over MND
But MND may have played best game of season in District Finals
Boro/Mason is a toss up to me
As mentioned previously Boro has lost to Mason last 5 times they’ve met since 20-21, last 3 seasons in District Finals
Springboro will be highly motivated to break that streak!
3 very animated coaches, officiating will be very interesting. Springboro coach seems very even keeled.
How much leeway will officials allow on questioning calls?
In my opinion (which means nothing) Princeton’s entire staff has gotten out of hand with complaining on high majority of calls
Don’t know that I’ve seen MND or Mason asst coaches say much of anything.
Head coaches at MND and Mason are obviously a different story
Wouldn’t have been surprised either way with Boro/Winton Woods outcome.
Still don’t understand why SW OH D1 is ONLY Regional in the state (any division) that plays Semifinals on 2 nights instead of both games on 1 night.
Pure money grab?
See a Princeton win over MND
But MND may have played best game of season in District Finals
Boro/Mason is a toss up to me
As mentioned previously Boro has lost to Mason last 5 times they’ve met since 20-21, last 3 seasons in District Finals
Springboro will be highly motivated to break that streak!
3 very animated coaches, officiating will be very interesting. Springboro coach seems very even keeled.
How much leeway will officials allow on questioning calls?
In my opinion (which means nothing) Princeton’s entire staff has gotten out of hand with complaining on high majority of calls
Don’t know that I’ve seen MND or Mason asst coaches say much of anything.
Head coaches at MND and Mason are obviously a different story
I would guess the reason is because the SW district board is living in the 1980s. They either don't realize or don't care about the popularity/attendance for these DI games. They continue to play these games at a HS that cant accommodate the crowds, so they have to move it to 2 nights to make it work. Reason being is that fans from all teams will show up early/stay after to watch the other games.Regional Matchups are pretty much Chalk!
Wouldn’t have been surprised either way with Boro/Winton Woods outcome.
Still don’t understand why SW OH D1 is ONLY Regional in the state (any division) that plays Semifinals on 2 nights instead of both games on 1 night.
Pure money grab?
See a Princeton win over MND
But MND may have played best game of season in District Finals
Boro/Mason is a toss up to me
As mentioned previously Boro has lost to Mason last 5 times they’ve met since 20-21, last 3 seasons in District Finals
Springboro will be highly motivated to break that streak!
3 very animated coaches, officiating will be very interesting. Springboro coach seems very even keeled.
How much leeway will officials allow on questioning calls?
In my opinion (which means nothing) Princeton’s entire staff has gotten out of hand with complaining on high majority of calls
Don’t know that I’ve seen MND or Mason asst coaches say much of anything.
Head coaches at MND and Mason are obviously a different story
And all of this while the boys continue to play districts at Xavier and Dayton, and the girls cant even get out of a HS venue for the regional, its a joke.
Its also hilarious that they take THREE weeks to play 3 games in a sectional, and now they play district on Saturday, and turn around and play the regional semis on Tuesday!!! Where are the people who said you had to have the draw early so teams could prepare, because Sunday draw to 1st sectional game on Tuesday was not enough time to prepare for all the 1st round blowouts, but now you get to the biggest games of the season, and you have to practice Sunday and Monday to try to get ready for Tuesday. Amazing stuff!
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Officiating has been horrible on the girls side. Lets be honest. At this point of the season, Oshaa should be putting the best officials on the court.Regional Matchups are pretty much Chalk!
Wouldn’t have been surprised either way with Boro/Winton Woods outcome.
Still don’t understand why SW OH D1 is ONLY Regional in the state (any division) that plays Semifinals on 2 nights instead of both games on 1 night.
Pure money grab?
See a Princeton win over MND
But MND may have played best game of season in District Finals
Boro/Mason is a toss up to me
As mentioned previously Boro has lost to Mason last 5 times they’ve met since 20-21, last 3 seasons in District Finals
Springboro will be highly motivated to break that streak!
3 very animated coaches, officiating will be very interesting. Springboro coach seems very even keeled.
How much leeway will officials allow on questioning calls?
In my opinion (which means nothing) Princeton’s entire staff has gotten out of hand with complaining on high majority of calls
Don’t know that I’ve seen MND or Mason asst coaches say much of anything.
Head coaches at MND and Mason are obviously a different story
Princeton can't play on their home court, just like they didn't on Saturday (doesn't address why both games can't be moved when a host teams makes it to Regionals)
Seminoles1
New member
Southwest District girls basketball: Cincinnati boasts 2 players, coaches of the year
Here are the All-Southwest District girls basketball teams.
www.cincinnati.com
Congrats to all of these young ladies!!
taximama24
Active member
Princeton vs. MND rematch, I agree with most that Princeton has been underwhelming this year, but I do still think they get the win tonight. MND probably relying on more production from Harrison this game than last and for Vieth to be the difference maker since she didn't play much last time but has found some success in the post season drawing the charge with her thin frame and how easily she ends up on the floor, will be interesting to see if that continues into the OHSAA broadcasted games, especially with the additional ref at the table. But obviously if they can't contain Gerton then it won't matter, can't let her score over a point per minute again and expect a different outcome. I actually think Givens will step up in the regionals, she goes home without the ring she transferred for if not.
parenttarget
Active member
The SW district board has absolutely no say in regionals. Regionals are run by the OHSAA.
If Regionals are run by OHSAA.
HOW can Medina host Regionals and play a home game (tonight beat Uniontown Lake) in said Regional Semi Final?
And will play a Home game in D1 Regional Final vs Magnificat on Saturday?
But Princeton (rightfully so) can not?
OHSAA making a specific rule in SW Region but not in all Regions?
Make it make sense!
HOW can Medina host Regionals and play a home game (tonight beat Uniontown Lake) in said Regional Semi Final?
And will play a Home game in D1 Regional Final vs Magnificat on Saturday?
But Princeton (rightfully so) can not?
OHSAA making a specific rule in SW Region but not in all Regions?
Make it make sense!
AllSports12
Moderator
The regional game sites have been posted on the OHSAA website for months..... From the beginning, Princeton and Lakota West were listed as venues to be used. Medina is/was the only site listed.If Regionals are run by OHSAA.
HOW can Medina host Regionals and play a home game (tonight beat Uniontown Lake) in said Regional Semi Final?
And will play a Home game in D1 Regional Final vs Magnificat on Saturday?
But Princeton (rightfully so) can not?
OHSAA making a specific rule in SW Region but not in all Regions?
Make it make sense!
Maybe no other site offered up their venue in the event that a conflict arose from a team(s) advancing?
Because the Regional sites have been listed for months that makes it right?
There will be a lot of Blue at D1 Regional Final Saturday
Amazing that 2 1st year head coaches will be leading there teams for a chance at a Final 4 appearance
Springboro shoots like they did last night on Saturday vs MND and they'll be playing at UD Arena next week!
10-22 (45.5%) from 3, they have been a good 3 pt shooting team all season 32.8% (similar to Princeton, Lak East and Mason), but last night they were spectacular.
Amazing that 2 1st year head coaches will be leading there teams for a chance at a Final 4 appearance
Springboro shoots like they did last night on Saturday vs MND and they'll be playing at UD Arena next week!
10-22 (45.5%) from 3, they have been a good 3 pt shooting team all season 32.8% (similar to Princeton, Lak East and Mason), but last night they were spectacular.
I was going to keep my mouth closed but it really bothered me last night watching those two young ladies play last night who should still have been out under concussion protocol. There's a six step protocol that i know wasn't followed. The earliest those ladies should've played was this Sunday. Very disappointed with everyone involved. Smh