Weiskittle
Well-known member
More fun to speculate about what could be, than what is!
2023 TRC football
- Thread starter dograt
- Start date
ghsknightsfan
love the Knights and Grey Ghosts!
the OHC will welcome the pirates with open arms when the time comes.
baffles me that Riverside didn’t show up to the inaugural OHC meeting. they have to have regretted that decision.
I heard from an employee of milton close to the football program that they're at 30ish kids. Lost a couple starters to golf and other sports. Which if that is the case i feel the league could be a total crap shoot. Now like i have said before their JV has a lot of varsity experience but i think anyone could make a case for themself to win the league this year. Northridge will either be the top dog or middle of the pack. I also think a smaller school like Lehman or Riverside could squeak a title out. Bethel could very well be a league winner this year too.
Allsports1
New member
It don't have anything to do with the coach. the last few years it wouldn't matter who was the coach. If you don't have the kids you don't have the kids. But for you to sit on here talking bad or blaming it on a coach because they are not winning tells me you must have a personal things with him. stop blaming the coaches all programs have ups and downs they are just on a down slide they are getting it together. Covington will be just fine in about a another year or two. I see where the kids get it at now if they don't win they want to blame a coach. last time I checked the coach don't play the game. if you're not winning try working harder and if your in a team sport take your friends with you to workouts.
Gamma Gobbler
Well-known member
Whoa, whoa, whoa. I am not privy to Bucs coaching or the state of football program other than it has fallen off of the radar the past couple years but I will tell you this. COACHING DOES MATTER and it is absolutely reflective on player participation. It is great you know where the kids are now and the program looks to be coming together. Yes, coaches don't kick, punt, pass, catch, run, block or play the game but if a kid does not believe in what the current coach is saying, its all BS to them and the numbers fall. Lee Tressel, or someone else, said, "They dont care how much you know until the know how much you care." Take that to the bank and maybe that is what is going on in Covington...I dont know, I dont care but you must understand the coach is the absolute life blood of any program. The failures are his alone and the successes belong to infinite parts of the program...any quality coach knows this.
Since wrestling is in your user name...My kid was a DI college scholarship wrestler. During his HS he career grappled with the Graham, Troy Christian, LaSalle, Massillon and sometimes Blair kids every weekend during the offseason, open mats, season, conference, etc. (the comp doesn't get any better...agree?) He wrestled in no less than 300 matches per year since he was a 6th grader but in his words, "my HS coach sucked and never prepared me for what is out there and college was a grind knowing I had to catch up to the elite". Upon his college graduation he hated wrestling just knowing what he did not know but focused that as successful wrestling coach with several state champs. So when you say "it wouldn't matter who was the coach", yes, it really does matter.
I don't think anyone is bashing the coach because of wins and losses. I think the questions being raised are because it seems that the team is only made up of underclassmen and kids aren't sticking around. It still could not be a coaching issue and could be that two grades at the school don't like football, but from the outside looking in people can only draw conclusions on the little information they have.
Weiskittle
Well-known member
Hahahah he can’t get anyone to play for more than a year, who the heck else’s fault is it they can’t win?!
Weiskittle
Well-known member
I have heard some stories…. Lol
Weiskittle
Well-known member
Gamma Gobbler
Well-known member
When someone says its not the coach or refs fault, they are usually a coach or ref.
Gamma Gobbler
Well-known member
Question for you. I went with a friend last year, he was scouting Indian Lake, but he kept making comments on your big Tackle. He was impressed and after picking up on him I would say he was a dominate force for the O line and was very active on D. Tall kid, lean, good wing span, active hands and good footwork. I dont remember is number nor did I see the roster to see his year but if he was a Sr....where did he go. If he was a Jr. oh my, this kid should be something special.
ghsknightsfan
love the Knights and Grey Ghosts!
care to share?
Weiskittle
Well-known member
He was a senior, he got 1st team all state. But he had no interest in college, had the ability to play at least D2 in my opinion though!
Gamma Gobbler
Well-known member
I would agree with that AS selection...he was impressive. D2, yes. He was a pleasure to watch... REALLY, the whole team, there is a lot of positive going on in De Graff. Forgive me for my pick of MU in the TRC but Riverside is my sentimental favorite....great place.
Allsports1
New member
I have been around sports way too long for you to say it’s the coaches fault. If you truly love the sport, you will play pretty much, no matter what there are only a few really good high school coaches. But in most situations, it’s the program which draws the kids. Kids want to win and if they’re not going to win majority of them will either not play anymore or move to another school that will win. If I’m not mistaken, there was a lot of people that wanted Coach Goodwin to be fired from Marion local because the first couple years wasn’t what they wanted and he came in and was a hard . I don’t think he is any nicer now than he was 25 years ago. If you don’t have talent, I don’t care who is the coaches you’re not going to win But in the same if you have talent, more likely you’re going to win. You also referenced Wrestling you don’t have to have a good high school coach to win a state title seen it hundreds of times. In d6 high school football if you have one or two freak athletes, you’re going to win a lot of games, no matter who coaches you. Don’t mean you’re gonna win a state title. But I do know I’ve seen some really bad coaches winning state titles. Don’t mean they’re a good coach. Kids have to want it and yes, I will agree. You need a coach that can’t connect with them kids and keep them out but it is really hard to keep kids out. When you know you’re not going to be that good at it. It’s the same problem everywhere. The game is a lot easier on PlayStation than it is to get out and practice in real life.
I'm not sure what people in Maria Stein wanted if it wasn't a State Final Four and two State Championships in Goodwins first few years. And that's coming off a 3-7 record the year before he took over. Instead of defending the adult in the room and throwing the kids under the bus maybe take an honest assessment of the situation.
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Allsports1
New member
I'm not sure what people in Maria Stein wanted if it wasn't a State Final Four and two State Championships in Goodwins first few years. And that's coming off a 3-7 record the year before he took over. Instead of defending the adult in the room and throwing the kids under the bus maybe take an honest assessment of the situation.
Well they were still wanting to get rid of him his first couple years. It wasn’t until he got to the state finals. Did things change around!
Who is throwing kids under the bus? That sounds like someone who wants to make more excuses. Every program goes through ups and downs, so does that mean the coach when it’s on the upside is really good but when it hits the downside, the coach is really bad and then if they’re lucky enough that the school didnt fire him to go on a upstream again, because he has some athletes again that their a really good coach again. Is the new Graham wrestling coach as good as Jeff Jordan or is the program established and he’s running off the athletes they already have. But he has to be a great coach he’s won a state title. When your team is losing, everybody wants to blame the coach or think that they could do a better job. Well we see it all the time in the pros as long as they’re doing good keep them around and they’re the greatest but if you don’t win, you’re terrible and need to go. Same thing with refs. If the calls go your way you like them and if the calls don’t go your way you want him fired. Here’s the bottom line. No one likes their team losing and someone always wants to blame somebody else for the reasoning. It takes time to build programs they’re not built overnight. As kids buy into a program it will get better for all. Probably one of the best things is if the parents could stay out of high school sports Most parents sit back and just criticize and cause more problems for that program and have no idea what they’re talking about. They get on Internet forms, chat rooms and just talking ton of garbage and they’ve probably never coached or refereed. Maybe not even played the game. And at the end of the day, I just don’t see all these applications to be a referee or applications to be a coach to give your time up for the pennies that they make. So they can be criticized bashed and told how they should have ran this play instead of that play how if you to play this kid here or that kid there you’d be better. If you think you can coach better join help out if you think you can ref better get your license we need more referees. Stop sitting on chat rooms acting like you know because you hear one side of a story or because you have no clue what is really going on and you just don’t like the coach because your son don’t play because he isn’t good enough. Or your son’s team isn’t winning because they’re not as good as you think they are. Stop blaming other people. Sometimes teams aren’t good. Sometimes they are. If you don’t have the athletes, I don’t care who coaches you are not winning.
Well they were still wanting to get rid of him his first couple years. It wasn’t until he got to the state finals. Did things change around!
Who is throwing kids under the bus? That sounds like someone who wants to make more excuses. Every program goes through ups and downs, so does that mean the coach when it’s on the upside is really good but when it hits the downside, the coach is really bad and then if they’re lucky enough that the school didnt fire him to go on a upstream again, because he has some athletes again that their a really good coach again. Is the new Graham wrestling coach as good as Jeff Jordan or is the program established and he’s running off the athletes they already have. But he has to be a great coach he’s won a state title. When your team is losing, everybody wants to blame the coach or think that they could do a better job. Well we see it all the time in the pros as long as they’re doing good keep them around and they’re the greatest but if you don’t win, you’re terrible and need to go. Same thing with refs. If the calls go your way you like them and if the calls don’t go your way you want him fired. Here’s the bottom line. No one likes their team losing and someone always wants to blame somebody else for the reasoning. It takes time to build programs they’re not built overnight. As kids buy into a program it will get better for all. Probably one of the best things is if the parents could stay out of high school sports Most parents sit back and just criticize and cause more problems for that program and have no idea what they’re talking about. They get on Internet forms, chat rooms and just talking ton of garbage and they’ve probably never coached or refereed. Maybe not even played the game. And at the end of the day, I just don’t see all these applications to be a referee or applications to be a coach to give your time up for the pennies that they make. So they can be criticized bashed and told how they should have ran this play instead of that play how if you to play this kid here or that kid there you’d be better. If you think you can coach better join help out if you think you can ref better get your license we need more referees. Stop sitting on chat rooms acting like you know because you hear one side of a story or because you have no clue what is really going on and you just don’t like the coach because your son don’t play because he isn’t good enough. Or your son’s team isn’t winning because they’re not as good as you think they are. Stop blaming other people. Sometimes teams aren’t good. Sometimes they are. If you don’t have the athletes, I don’t care who coaches you are not winning.
Weiskittle
Well-known member
I forgot that Covington is the only community in western Ohio that has PlayStation… poor guy is coaching with one hand tied behind his back… lol
20 straight winning season, to 0 varsity wins and a canceled season in two… but hey, I’m sure it’s the kids faults who have lived there and not a random new coach…..
Weiskittle
Well-known member
We’re not talking about a team not having the talent, we’re talking about the team barley existing!!! Covington has had more kids play for 1 year and quit in the last two years than they have on the roster this year!!
The one bright stop is they have 22 freshman, he may prove us all wrong but if you take recent trends they are going to have 10 Sophomores next year.
The bottom line is the coach is where the buck stops, and at the end of the day the coach is responsible, and it’s a freaking mess!
dograt
Well-known member
You are correct, home side only, and it doesn't work. I think then they were in the NWCC and nobody travelled it wasn't as noticeable. when MU went there in 2021 it was a zoo. they basically give the home fans the center and south sections and the away fans get the north section.
As an added bonus, the bleachers face west. Everyone gets to look into the setting sun.
Allsports1
New member
Yes blame the coach. It’s the easy way out.
Weiskittle
Well-known member
Oh yes, continue to blame the kids. You are such and inspiration.
I guess the rest of us are wrong and must accept that there is something Inherently wrong with all the kids born between 2005 and 2008 in the 45318 zip code… how unfortunate :’(
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Gamma Gobbler
Well-known member
There is so much wrong with this I dont know where to begin...but being the arsehole I am, I will try.
"it’s the program which draws the kids". What is the program? This is a good buzz word but define what you think a "program" is. I will try but I may not be very goodly at expressing. Who is the face of the program? Is it the past, present or future players? IMO, Nope, it is the head guy and the staff that he surrounds himself. I saw Coach Goodwin speak after his first state title. To paraphrase, condensed as I understood him; when he took the ML job, he thought he would teach these kids about work ethic but was surprised when those kids taught him what it was. He realized he was there to instill his football knowledge (Xs and Os) to and make the kids better in the game...they didn't need to work harder, just guided in football success. He built that culture of success. The face of ML program is Goodwin! Can they win without him probably, based on the current culture, but there may be a fall off over the years...there is only one of him. Similar to Jeff Jordan, he built that Graham wrestling room and with the current HC, Graham grad under Jordan, he brought that same culture to the table. Though Graham ain't what they were nationally, they are still the cat's meow in OH and that was established by Jordan. That is a program
"If you don’t have talent, I don’t care who is the coaches you’re not going to win" I agree but not totally. The HC coaches to the strengths of the team. If they have no speed or QB to throw, why go spread? Maybe a veer or Wing-T is the way to go or why a 4-3 when the ILB can't cover to the hashes (maybe a different alignment for the strength of the players), again a HC vision to what they have available in the talent pool. A quality HC knows what is in the pipeline and is able to adjust to the strengths of the hand he is dealt, not forceing a pre-determined philosophy.
"But I do know I’ve seen some really bad coaches winning state titles". Name a couple. Were those coaches bad in your eyes of their established history? Define a bad coach...I think I have given a couple of examples of a good one.
"You need a coach that can’t connect with them kids and keep them out but it is really hard to keep kids out". I'll agree with this for the most part. However, the HC is the face. The HC is the one that establishes a culture of success and builds the program. There are many HC egos out there and it is my way or the highway and that is the fundamental problem. The HC is an administrator, visionary, statistician, schemer and many times a father. His hand selected staff will enable his HC success. A kid will give more when they are wanted and made (and shown) to believe they matter to the success of the program, these are connections that need to be made; again the HC responsibility. The HC is the one establishing a program, he is the one that will carry on after all the "studs" have left. What does that coach offer to the youth and considering their future and goals and how does he convince those youngsters to hold the line? Funny how people know who the HC of the football team is but dont know who the mayor of their town is or anyone on the school board.
I have never, ever, ever on this planet or any other, that I am not knowing, seen or read an interview with a HC that puts blame on the kids or his staff for a loss. The losses and failures are the HC, the success belong to the kids and an occasional call out to staff. Just think about it for a moment, HC are fired for losing but the kids remain...why is that?
Finally, when a new HC comes in there is usually excitement that builds in what this guy brings to the table and that first year everyone is all in but when you go 0fer with cancelled games or season due to numbers....that my friend is a plate of shizz only served to the HC.
Just so you know, I played through college, coached, officiated an parented...so I have been around a long time as well
Allsports1
New member
when cates left the team was going down. the new coach took over a program that was needing help. yes some kids have quite he also makes kids work some kids don't like to work. still you can say what you want you can blame the coach or whatever you want but really if your going to start blaming someone look right there at home. its the mom and dads telling the kids that its ok the coach sucks.
Weiskittle
Well-known member
When Cates left they still had a team.
Gamma Gobbler
Well-known member
Dont you find it odd that kids can have gender reassignment procedures without parental consent or parental knowledge to their orientation, pronouns, etc. and in certain communities are allowed to vote at the age of 16 but somehow, parents, per your statement, can effect a kids decision when it comes to athletics?
I call BS, there is something more happening than what is being provided.
Allsports1
New member
OK, just off Covington’s coaching history, Larry Tisdale his first year he was 3-6 then next year 10-0 a few good year8-2 8-2 7-3 then drops to 5-4 then back to 10-0
The next year a new coach went 9-1 then 5-4 4-4 then 4-6 so then Larry Tisdale start coaching 9-1 10-1 10-1 but finishes his last two years with 6-3 and 3-7. He quit coaching then you have Charlie burgbacher come in almost every year is a losing record besides one. Where they go 11.-2. After year they went back to barely 500 or losing records so I’m just curious year they went 11 and two was he just a better coach? happens with Bob Riley as well mixed years some 4-6 years and then some 9-1 10-1 Don’t know what to think same coach but different out comes then you have coaches like peacock we’re his worst record is 9-1 But if it’s all coaching his assistant coach Kevin Finfrock then takes over 10-1 but then falls off 5-5 but then bounce back 9-2. The year they were five and five he must’ve been a bad coach. Then you have Dave Miller, who many could say arguably had some of the most talented kids. only has one season that looks kind of bad and it was a 6-5 year Then you have Ty Cates come in 11-1 but then drops off to 5-5 7-3 a 10-3 back to a 5-5 and your new coach Austin Morgan picks up 1-9 2-6
Well, I’m very confused. I see a lot of coaches have some really really good years and then hit some bad years and then have maybe hit a few more good years.
On almost every new Coach you have kids quit. And you have new kids come out every program hits the struggle bus. I’ve never seen it fixed by crying on the Internet and blaming the coaches. If that was the case, Larry Tisdale was on a downward ride while he was coaching. If on one of his off years they fired him how could he have won the state championships at the end of his 1st time coaching the year before we was 5-5 He wins a state championships stop coaching and the next year they go 9-1 but Rex can’t get past .500 after that but he was 9-1.
When Larry Tisdale comes back.Great years his last time coaching when he finished up he was a state champion this time when he finishes up coaching he is at 3-7. Did he forget how to coach? He was good but he wasn’t. He won his state title, but he also had some really bad years. Makes no sense to me. So he coached kids to win state but then a few years later coached them so bad they only won 3 games. Must be the coach and not the talent that the Coach has.
The next year a new coach went 9-1 then 5-4 4-4 then 4-6 so then Larry Tisdale start coaching 9-1 10-1 10-1 but finishes his last two years with 6-3 and 3-7. He quit coaching then you have Charlie burgbacher come in almost every year is a losing record besides one. Where they go 11.-2. After year they went back to barely 500 or losing records so I’m just curious year they went 11 and two was he just a better coach? happens with Bob Riley as well mixed years some 4-6 years and then some 9-1 10-1 Don’t know what to think same coach but different out comes then you have coaches like peacock we’re his worst record is 9-1 But if it’s all coaching his assistant coach Kevin Finfrock then takes over 10-1 but then falls off 5-5 but then bounce back 9-2. The year they were five and five he must’ve been a bad coach. Then you have Dave Miller, who many could say arguably had some of the most talented kids. only has one season that looks kind of bad and it was a 6-5 year Then you have Ty Cates come in 11-1 but then drops off to 5-5 7-3 a 10-3 back to a 5-5 and your new coach Austin Morgan picks up 1-9 2-6
Well, I’m very confused. I see a lot of coaches have some really really good years and then hit some bad years and then have maybe hit a few more good years.
On almost every new Coach you have kids quit. And you have new kids come out every program hits the struggle bus. I’ve never seen it fixed by crying on the Internet and blaming the coaches. If that was the case, Larry Tisdale was on a downward ride while he was coaching. If on one of his off years they fired him how could he have won the state championships at the end of his 1st time coaching the year before we was 5-5 He wins a state championships stop coaching and the next year they go 9-1 but Rex can’t get past .500 after that but he was 9-1.
When Larry Tisdale comes back.Great years his last time coaching when he finished up he was a state champion this time when he finishes up coaching he is at 3-7. Did he forget how to coach? He was good but he wasn’t. He won his state title, but he also had some really bad years. Makes no sense to me. So he coached kids to win state but then a few years later coached them so bad they only won 3 games. Must be the coach and not the talent that the Coach has.
Allsports1
New member
Weiskittle
Well-known member
Did you seriously “quote” me, then write in your response?
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Weiskittle
Well-known member
Those bad years they still had a team, his 2 JV wins last year over the same team don’t count as improvement. Tisdale didn’t forget how to coach, they went into a league that led to a decade of bad records, but I got news for you buddy… the TRC ain’t that conference, they would suck in the CCC with the teams they have had the last 2 years.
Also You know what they had in all those “Down” years… a variety schedule
ps. Cates left because he has a kid in the Vandalia school district, he was pretty open about it. I do agree that people saw a downturn coming, but that was in talent level, that lack of numbers and the inability to have a varsity schedule, that is Morgan’s fault.
Unless you come in with some ground breaking information I’m done with this discussion, it’s old, and it’s pointless. Have fun canceling the 2nd half of the season, have fun blaming the kids that don’t want to play for a coach so badly that a D6 school can barely field a team.
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