eyes r burning
Well-known member
I would. It was dumb.
2023 OHSWCA State Dual Districts D3 Saturday Feb 4th
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eyes r burning
Well-known member
Didn't say your suggestion was garbage. In fact, I said it was good in theory, but you failed to make it a realistic suggestion. You spewed out an idea without thinking it through.
You're wanting a "pay to play" observer program in place for a program that you say already exists, from an organization that doesn't have the pay for it, or the man power. I might as well say that the way to fix all the issues are to pay all officials a million bucks.
eyes r burning
Well-known member
Now you're PM'ing me with an address asking for a fight. That's exactly what an intelligent, well thought out individual would do.
FirestoneFan
Well-known member
Settle down and watch the Super Bowl. I saw very curious call watching the D#3 finals this weekend but I do realize I am on the computer watching and not on the mat. I just got a hair up my when almost every call the announcers questioned. Once again I do live broadcasting myself and I question things but the refs on the mat are in control.
Have a great evening and good luck to all wrestlers!!
Have a great evening and good luck to all wrestlers!!
1) Our opinions obviously differ on what is realistic and what isn't.
2) Your posts come across as angry/bitter/sarcastic
3) If you don't agree, fine, let's move on.
eyes r burning
Well-known member
So you think it's realistic that OHSAA will pay/hire multiple individuals throughout the state for each sport to observe and further train officials to appease all these fans complaining about bad calls?
Do the math on that for a second. Let us assume they do the bare minimum. There are 23 sports listed by OHSAA. 6 districts. That's 138 new employees assuming no overlap. Realistic? Don't forget the travel costs OHSAA will assume for these guys.
Angry, no. Bitter, not sure what I'd be bitter about. Sarcastic, mostly.
I apologize. When I am wrong I admit it. There's a few words that get me upset. Those being dumb, stupid, and retarded... I am sorry, I was way out of line.
BuckeyeGrappler
Active member
I know there’s a shortage of refs but that allows a few of the current refs to purposefully make bad calls because maybe the wrestler showed attitude or the coach is being too loud. All of a sudden, it’s about him and not the two kids on the mat that has worked their tails off. I know exactly which ref you are referring to unfortunately. We seen him do the exact same thing at the D3 State Duals last year. To throw salt in the wounds, I’ve HEARD he’s in Law Enforcement as well. There’s no room for that in this sport. Leave your ego at home please!
if the word “dumb” on the internet can get you to the point you threaten real life violence I suggest you see a therapist as that is not normal.
And it’s not just a little bit crazy, it’s a lot crazy.
fireflyer7051
New member
On a lighter note, Chazz Michael Michael’s officiating was entertaining. If not always desirable, fair or accurate, his mere attendance made the dual all that it could be……..
CoachHoversten
Well-known member
As an official of two sports (HS wrestling and NCAA baseball), I understand criticism is part of the job, it is what it is. But come on, you honestly think an official is out there thinking "you know, since there is a shortage of officials, I can go ahead and blow this call". Your statement already tells me whether or not you have ever officiated a sport in your life, you haven't. Even when I am just doing some youth level event that means next to nothing, I don't even notice the fans or coaches or parents. You are watching the match with an unbiased eye, watching for illegal holds, fingers, pressure on neck, positioning, are they stalling or not, supporting points for IB/OB, control, restraining power, angle of the back.
There is no chance a person goes into officiating, goes through class, mandatory meetings, and endless criticism for a few bucks so they can "make it about themselves"
Honestly, it costs $70 to take the class, and not a lot for wrestling officials gear (as opposed to baseball which is $$$). Please do join the ranks and show us how much better you can do it. I am not saying that snarky, I am serious. Go take their job if you're that good, but I surmise you will quickly realize it isn't as easy as you think
BuckeyeGrappler
Active member
Ok buddy. There are so many irrelevant and exaggerated statements in your passage that maybe you need to take a deep breath and not be another crazy fool on here. I do NOT care what profession you are in, there will always be bad apples. This one official honestly needs to remove himself because it is always about him. Unless you are him, carry on brother!
I agree I was out of line and I am sorry. I apologize again. I am certainly not crazy., I have a daughter with a disability and those words piss me off more than they should. Maybe I do need a therapist? I am truly sorry.
I have a son with autism and the “R” word makes me upset. But it would never lead me to threaten violence to someone on the internet.
Dancing Bears
New member
Lost Octopus
Active member
Was that McKenzie and 215?
Dancing Bears
New member
Lost Octopus
Active member
Yikes. That's a State Championship. Heard it was a heck of a match. That kid doesn't win much in a 3 period match, but boy he can toss people.
I have an old friend that is an official. I coached him. He has point blank said there is a coach that he looks forward to throwing out in a big match. Fact. For a ref to come on here and think he can speak for all refs about their professionalism is naive and simply has zero credibility
My daughter is autistic and she's so sensitive to words that hurt more than they should. So basically its grown on me. Never would've bothered me before my daughter came along. I used to say words that I would never ever use now and I hate that I did. After realizing my mistake I sat down with my daughter and told her that basically someone called me dumb ( which isn't what happened, but that's the best way for me to teach her that people will save things that may be hurtful to us. We must not let it get to us.) So I learned something and hopefully she did is well... Again I am sorry for it.
You guys should probably still scrap. Don't let these men emasculate you.
Jim Behrens
Well-known member
For the first time in many days I took a look at this thread so I had no idea what direction it turned. While I see some comments that are accurate, I also see some amazingly clueless comments.
As was pointed out, officials are in very short supply (in all sports) and we need more of them. Everyone is an expert when sitting behind a keyboard. How about transferring that ability to the mat and making a positive contribution?
The OHSAA officiating classes are now a computer based class. It takes very little time and you too can be a stellar official. However, anyone can read a book and take a test. When you get on the mat, the real learning begins. This is the mentoring that was mentioned. Over the years I have worked with countless guys who wrestled and/or coached and every single one has told me that they were stunned at how little they knew about rules and how they are applied.
Is every official the "best"? Of course not. We all have strengths and weaknesses. We are humans and we are fortunate to be able to officiate in a sport we care about.
Is every call going to be to your liking as a fan? Not a chance in the world of that happening.
If you want to help, please reach out to me. I am not hard to find and I will be glad to point you in the right direction to get you started. I can link you up with the various Associations around the state in order to get you with the people best able to help you.
Just as an FYI, this year the trainer/facilitator for my Association worked with about 8 or 9 HS students and they are now Class 3 officials. This includes one female official who is currently on a NE District team. We need women officials too. My hope is that they all find it as rewarding as I do so that people on a forum will have something to complain about in 40 years.
Help us help the great sport of wrestling.
As was pointed out, officials are in very short supply (in all sports) and we need more of them. Everyone is an expert when sitting behind a keyboard. How about transferring that ability to the mat and making a positive contribution?
The OHSAA officiating classes are now a computer based class. It takes very little time and you too can be a stellar official. However, anyone can read a book and take a test. When you get on the mat, the real learning begins. This is the mentoring that was mentioned. Over the years I have worked with countless guys who wrestled and/or coached and every single one has told me that they were stunned at how little they knew about rules and how they are applied.
Is every official the "best"? Of course not. We all have strengths and weaknesses. We are humans and we are fortunate to be able to officiate in a sport we care about.
Is every call going to be to your liking as a fan? Not a chance in the world of that happening.
If you want to help, please reach out to me. I am not hard to find and I will be glad to point you in the right direction to get you started. I can link you up with the various Associations around the state in order to get you with the people best able to help you.
Just as an FYI, this year the trainer/facilitator for my Association worked with about 8 or 9 HS students and they are now Class 3 officials. This includes one female official who is currently on a NE District team. We need women officials too. My hope is that they all find it as rewarding as I do so that people on a forum will have something to complain about in 40 years.
Help us help the great sport of wrestling.
Are there any female officials currently working in Ohio? I am only familiar with one (the Youngstown area), but she's retired now. Coincidentally, her husband was an official too. Two real good people.
Jim Behrens
Well-known member
You are referring to Karen Conklin and her husband, Gary Oferdahl. Both retired for officiating probably 5 years ago.
I am not aware of any others besides the brand new one I mentioned. Actually I officiate her team tomorrow and I plan to talk to the other ladies to see if they have any interest in doing the ranks.
Fingers crossed.
Dancing Bears
New member
Hey Jim reffing is a thankless job. With that being said why is it every time somebody complains about bad officials the response you guys have is if you don't like it become one. How about mastering your trade. Officials should get better. There's allot of kids that have been training for years and to have the kind of officiating that was at the state duals is unexcusable. The biggest thing I noticed was being out of position, being out of shape or too big to even get down this is unexcusable. Three times the state had to been called because they didn't know the rules. These are state officials and that is unexcusable.
Jim Behrens
Well-known member
I thought about whether to respond for some time as I know that, with your view, you will never understand.
At no point did I say that any official is perfect or that they can not improve. Every single wrestler, coach, or official should be working to improve in all aspects of their game.
I was merely pointing out that it is REALLY easy to be critical from behind a keyboard and using a screen name. My offer was to help point anyone (and that includes you) in the right direction so that they can help the sport. It isn't for everyone.
Lots of officials are getting on in years and that leads to slower movements on the mat. However, where do you think the 20 and 30 year olds are as officials? Let me give you a clue, they are not on the mat.
My question for anyone is, do you want to help the sport or just want to be critical? Being critical is easy, getting involved is harder.
I was not at the location you were when you wrote "Three times the state had to been called because they didn't know the rules." so I have no idea what that means or who was involved.
Last word, the State duals as run by the Coaches Association does not have the officials selected by the OHSAA. As involved as I am, I have no idea who was selected or what means they were selected by.
Wow, Trade ? All the refs have jobs and families , they ref for extra income or for the love of the sport. You act like they are making 500$ a day. I am glad you noticed all of that from the stands , very easy to be critical about things that you are not part of . Maybe you need to start helping and quit bitching because eventually we won’t have people these people helping out .
Old&Grumpy142
Well-known member
I stand with you 100% Dancing Bear. The only way positive change has ever happened in the world is through brave message board posters like yourself. What Jim Behrens and RcOc will never understand is that refereeing is not about the actual words written in the so called "rule book" that none of us have read, rather it's about what dedicated fans like ourselves think the rules should be enforced based on what team/wrestler we are rooting for. I for one, advocate all Referees- as part of their training - sit in the 8th row of the bleachers of a dual to understand just how clearly one can see all aspects of the action from 83 feet away.
....that said, no excuse for not knowing the rules and not being in shape or out of position. And one more thing, stop taking away team points for celebrations! Let the kids have a little fun.
CoachHoversten
Well-known member
I am sure the older, slower, out of shape, officials would love to be mentors to young officials as they age and it’s more difficult to look good for you.
we’ll just assign only young and healthy officials to events and let older guys coach them and mentor them.
Oh wait, even with all the older guys, we still have events being cancelled bc there aren’t enough officials.
the answer is to remove the ones who can’t beat Father Time, that will help the sport