2022 Elder Freshman Football

1965 Panther said:
This makes me wonder if the staff has quit coaching for wins but more to see what each kid has to offer. Haven’t they already moved some kids up to JV where the coaching is better (and paid)
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No, they just aren't very good as a unit. They don't play everyone, but they rotate a lot of players that are even in skill level. Freshman coaches are paid just like JV and Varsity.
 
Patchwork said:
That’s correct for sure. Parents have to trust the model that they run. They play everyone and rotate groups for PT. Let’s face it the old 5th qtr we used to play isn’t a thing anymore like in the past. The frosh coaches can’t win everyone over. If they compete with the best 22 kids then they lose kids. If they play everyone they lose kids and in both scenarios parents get upset.

play through freshman year and the JV coach’s get it right with what they have. The “entitled kids” who played a position in grade school doesn’t translate to freshman where ever you play. Face it. We have more kids playing football at elder right now then ever before. Something is working or the numbers would drop even more than they do. Transferring is an option and I say good luck to them. It’s not all roses elsewhere.
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Where are you getting the stat from? The freshman only have 68 on the team this year. That's pretty low from Elder's standard.
 
Patchwork said:
That’s correct for sure. Parents have to trust the model that they run. They play everyone and rotate groups for PT. Let’s face it the old 5th qtr we used to play isn’t a thing anymore like in the past. The frosh coaches can’t win everyone over. If they compete with the best 22 kids then they lose kids. If they play everyone they lose kids and in both scenarios parents get upset.
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Correct. They are in a lose-lose when it comes to making parents happy, especially at a school like Elder. I do think there is a middle ground that could be reached in playing more kids in an A Game, without playing the entire roster that may garner better results, but I'm also not there everyday coaching these kids. And like I said, there would still be someone not happy with that structure.
 
Patchwork said:
play through freshman year and the JV coach’s get it right with what they have. The “entitled kids” who played a position in grade school doesn’t translate to freshman where ever you play. Face it. We have more kids playing football at elder right now then ever before. Something is working or the numbers would drop even more than they do. Transferring is an option and I say good luck to them. It’s not all roses elsewhere.
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Don't think that's accurate, unless you mean kids playing (seeing the field) not numbers on a roster. The mid 2000s had 100 kids on the Frosh Team, at least 50-60 on JV and another 80-90 on Varsity.
 
adselder09 said:
Don't think that's accurate, unless you mean kids playing (seeing the field) not numbers on a roster. The mid 2000s had 100 kids on the Frosh Team, at least 50-60 on JV and another 80-90 on Varsity.
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Those numbers seem right for the 04-06/07 timeframe. Enrollment at Elder was probably around 1100 at the time.
 
adselder09 said:
Correct. They are in a lose-lose when it comes to making parents happy, especially at a school like Elder. I do think there is a middle ground that could be reached in playing more kids in an A Game, without playing the entire roster that may garner better results, but I'm also not there everyday coaching these kids. And like I said, there would still be someone not happy with that structure.
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They didn’t play the entire roster, they did rotate a ton and I think that was a large cause of the disorganization. Bottom line, there’s not much talent in this class. It doesn’t matter how many snaps most of them play, the results won’t be any better. The best thing I can say about this class is they have a few pieces that could supplement the JV.
 
pboy is literally wrong on every prediction he makes about talent within a class. I'm not sure how me pointing that out and providing his history of being wrong is something that gets deleted.

It's funny how in every other forum it's the opposite. They literally say outside opinions are welcome and encouraged. The moderators here are soft as charmin.

The moderators don't like the truth so they delete everything.
 
OnTheLine85 said:
pboy is literally wrong on every prediction he makes about talent within a class. I'm not sure how me pointing that out and providing his history of being wrong is something that gets deleted.

It's funny how in every other forum it's the opposite. They literally say outside opinions are welcome and encouraged. The moderators here are soft as charmin.

The moderators don't like the truth so they delete everything.
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The other forums don't appear to be very active! I heard they are 2/3rds more active though!
 
Another thing that bothered me, they let Centerville players show them up. One kid caught a long TD and did some kind of mean mugging celebration on the D. After that, someone on Elder’s D should’ve been hitting him on every play. Instead, they just kinda laid down as a whole and let CV walk all over them.
 
Omar said:
They didn’t play the entire roster, they did rotate a ton and I think that was a large cause of the disorganization. Bottom line, there’s not much talent in this class. It doesn’t matter how many snaps most of them play, the results won’t be any better. The best thing I can say about this class is they have a few pieces that could supplement the JV.
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Trey’s laughing, but like the moron he is, he thinks all these kids have potential to be quality players. That’s not true. There’s maybe 10 that will be starters on Varsity at some point. Everyone wants to point out diamonds in the rough, like Mark Miller, but he’s far and away the exception to the rule.
 
It has nothing to do with "diamonds in the rough" - it's developing kids over the course of 4 years.

If you have a 60 man roster, and only 10 can contribute by the time they get to varsity, that's not a kid problem, that's a development problem.
 
Development can’t overcome lack of ability. when I say 10 players could be varsity contributors, I’m being generous in assuming some of these kids develop. Right now, Uran, Re, Broxterman, and Smith are the only ones I can say for certain will be high quality Varsity players.
 
Omar said:
Development can’t overcome lack of ability. when I say 10 players could be varsity contributors, I’m being generous in assuming some of these kids develop. Right now, Uran, Re, Broxterman, and Smith are the only ones I can say for certain will be high quality Varsity players.
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Well, I guess they'll just have to play 22 on 5. Maybe fold the program?

They're lucky they have you to be so accurate about personnel - not sure what they'd do without your amazing talent predictions.

If there are only 5 worthy players when they get to varsity, they've done a great disservice to this class.
 
Well so when injuries happen in a program like Elder, it's not the expectation for the next player up to actually perform? Because maybe only 10 per class are worth a darn. And with programs like Elder, very few sophomores play varsity. So according to that logic, Elder should not be able to field a team worth anything since each year you only 20 players worthy of playing varsity.
 
cincifbfan said:
Well so when injuries happen in a program like Elder, it's not the expectation for the next player up to actually perform? Because maybe only 10 per class are worth a darn. And with programs like Elder, very few sophomores play varsity. So according to that logic, Elder should not be able to field a team worth anything since each year you only 20 players worthy of playing varsity.
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Next man up is always bogus. If the next man up was as good as the starter, he’d be playing more.

And this class is just weak in terms of talent. I guess it’s possible having a stud QB like Smith could elevate them, but seeing them in person, there’s just nothing there.
 
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Omar said:
Next man up is always bogus. If the next man up was as good as the starter, he’d be playing more.

And this class is just weak in terms of talent. I guess it’s possible having a stud QB like Smith could elevate them, but seeing them in person, there’s just nothing there.
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Nowhere did I say he would be as good as the starter. But he should perform, period. When you have that many players in your program and your replacement doesn't perform, that's a development issue.

Also, the diamonds in the rough happen more often then you think.

In the more than a decade experience I have coaching high school, I can tell you there are a few players each year that surprise you.
 
cincifbfan said:
Nowhere did I say he would be as good as the starter. But he should perform, period. When you have that many players in your program and your replacement doesn't perform, that's a development issue.

Also, the diamonds in the rough happen more often then you think.

In the more than a decade experience I have coaching high school, I can tell you there are a few players each year that surprise you.
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You also think you don’t need to pass the ball to win. Ask Roncalli how that worked out for them last week.

I saw the current Srs as Frosh and there were a few guys like Voelkerding, who played OL and Re who played Corner, that turned into really good players after a position change. However, that class was a lot better than this class. Again, maybe Carson Smith will elevate them when he’s the starting QB instead of JV backup, but I don’t see it. There’s a shocking lack of athleticism & speed outside of young Re, who is a a legitimate stud. He would’ve been the guy who kicked the FG in yesterday’s game in addition to being their best WR & RB.
 
Omar said:
You also think you don’t need to pass the ball to win. Ask Roncalli how that worked out for them last week.

I saw the current Srs as Frosh and there were a few guys like Voelkerding, who played OL and Re who played Corner, that turned into really good players after a position change. However, that class was a lot better than this class. Again, maybe Carson Smith will elevate them when he’s the starting QB instead of JV backup, but I don’t see it. There’s a shocking lack of athleticism & speed outside of young Re, who is a a legitimate stud. He would’ve been the guy who kicked the FG in yesterday’s game in addition to being their best WR & RB.
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Would've worked out well for Roncalli had they not fumbled twice. But I guess taking care of the football doesn't matter either.

So pass away and dont worry about turnovers.

And that makes 2 diamonds in just 1 class. So much for being rare.
 
cincifbfan said:
Would've worked out well for Roncalli had they not fumbled twice. But I guess taking care of the football doesn't matter either.

So pass away and dont worry about turnovers.

And that makes 2 diamonds in just 1 class. So much for being rare.
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Hmm, I guess Elder didn’t win in large part bc they hit on 2 Deep pass plays.

And those 2 are rare. They were always good players but didn’t turn into 1st Team GCL players until they got into the right position.
 
Omar said:
Hmm, I guess Elder didn’t win in large part bc they hit on 2 Deep pass plays.

And those 2 are rare. They were always good players but didn’t turn into 1st Team GCL players until they got into the right position.
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Elder won because of turnovers. When you win the turnover battle, you almost always win.
 
You're right as usual. The two turnovers by Elder defense had absolutely nothing to do with it. Air it out, just not 50 times a game.

That game was a statistical anomaly. In Elder's 7 wins, they have won only 1 game (Roncalli) where they didn't outrush the opponent. In their 2 losses, they got stomped in the run game. So, in 9 games, only once was not running the ball better than the opponent beneficial. So 89% of the time the run game is what matters.

If the Elder defense didn't get 2 fumbles, it's probably 100%.


So keep believing that opening up the playbook and the deep pass is what matters. There's literally not a single statistic to back up your claim
 
cincifbfan said:
You're right as usual. The two turnovers by Elder defense had absolutely nothing to do with it. Air it out, just not 50 times a game.

That game was a statistical anomaly. In Elder's 7 wins, they have won only 1 game (Roncalli) where they didn't outrush the opponent. In their 2 losses, they got stomped in the run game. So, in 9 games, only once was not running the ball better than the opponent beneficial. So 89% of the time the run game is what matters.

If the Elder defense didn't get 2 fumbles, it's probably 100%.


So keep believing that opening up the playbook and the deep pass is what matters. There's literally not a single statistic to back up your claim
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Didn’t Elder also score on a 70 yard TD pass this week? I guess making the Defense cover the whole field is a good thing.
 
Omar said:
Didn’t Elder also score on a 70 yard TD pass this week? I guess making the Defense cover the whole field is a good thing.
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Man, you criticized me for "Cherry-picking" entire games and here you are singling out 1 play in a sorry attempt to prove a point that you are wrong on.

Tell me you don't understand elementary statistics without telling me you don't understand elementary statistics.
 
cincifbfan said:
Man, you criticized me for "Cherry-picking" entire games and here you are singling out 1 play in a sorry attempt to prove a point that you are wrong on.

Tell me you don't understand elementary statistics without telling me you don't understand elementary statistics.
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It’s not cherry picking. I just gave you an example of the week before when Elder hit on 2 deep passes, that helped them score.
 
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